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2008-05-23 Home Front: Politix

The ignorance of "highly educated" voters

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Posted by Mike 2008-05-23 09:31|| || Front Page|| [2 views ] Top

#1 Also I wonder how many of those "highly educated" could integrate x2dx. Am I the only one who is irritated that what passes for highly educated refers exclsuively to litterary subjects, that you can be crass ignorant about basic physics or maths and still pass for educated?

Posted by JFM">JFM 2008-05-23 10:29|| 2008-05-23 10:29|| Front Page Top

#2 Good to see "The Diplomad" is back.

Posted by tu3031 2008-05-23 10:41|| 2008-05-23 10:41|| Front Page Top

#3 Worse yet is the assumption that, since someone went to 'Columbia' (or any of the other name-brand institutions) they *have* to be good.

Posted by CrazyFool 2008-05-23 10:43|| 2008-05-23 10:43|| Front Page Top

#4 Education and Intelligence are different things, the problem is that they are correlated.

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2008-05-23 11:00|| 2008-05-23 11:00|| Front Page Top

#5 Funny because my friends and I had a girlfriend test we'd play on each others girlfriends back in the days right out of college and it wasn't all that different. Name three countries that fought in WW2 and whos team they fought for. Most thought the Soviets were the enemy although a couple got Vietnam vs the US.

For some reason history is something that has far more attraction to men so our test was unfair and mostly for laughs but the Diplomad has a point if you are going to consider yourself brilliant it does seem like something you should know to fill out the mental skillset and absolutely if you're going into politics or international business or any number of other jobs.

Posted by rjschwarz 2008-05-23 11:18|| 2008-05-23 11:18|| Front Page Top

#6 Worse yet is the assumption that, since someone went to 'Columbia' (or any of the other name-brand institutions) they *have* to be good.

An unwarranted assumption, to be sure. But despite the fact that Mr. Lotp and I teach at a rather highly ranked, well-regarded school, when he spent a year on sabbatical at one of the better Ivies he *did* report a quality difference in the students, on average, compared to ours.

Posted by lotp 2008-05-23 11:19|| 2008-05-23 11:19|| Front Page Top

#7 Highly educated in what?

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2008-05-23 12:22|| 2008-05-23 12:22|| Front Page Top

#8 Although I could once, I certainly no longer can integrate x2dx, JFM. Most American students never get further than basic algebra and geometry, because being able to do bookkeeping is more important in the lives they end up with.

Most Germans don't know much in the way of history, either, although they can probably spit out more facts that they don't understand. People go to university to specialize these days, not to get a comprehensive education. No doubt most of the Diplomad's applicants were political science majors. I'm not sure what a degree in that field teaches.

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2008-05-23 12:30|| 2008-05-23 12:30|| Front Page Top

#9 Good point lotp. My sister was a teacher who would, at times, teach at American schools overseas (Abu Daubi for example) and her experience was that most American students overseas are much more 'ready' and 'prepared' to learn as opposed to a Public School in the USA.

I am curious. What do you think of the quality of education actually delivered? Just wondering....

Posted by CrazyFool 2008-05-23 12:49|| 2008-05-23 12:49|| Front Page Top

#10 A related but critical matter is the make-believe and silliness regarding current world events that fill many of these "highly educated" heads, of all ages. They read the NYT and listen to NPR - and thus have their sometimes outlandish misunderstandings of the world reinforced on a daily basis. They are entertained at movies and on The Daily Show as some of these core bigotries and areas of ignorance are mined for laughs.

Their world-view can be thrown into disarray with the simplest questions, as they are not in the habit of thinking at all, much less critically or rigorously, and especially about cherished bigotries and assumptions.

In this sense Obama IS the perfect candidate for them. Hugh Hewitt finally started calling him a lightweight (and acting, in his odd characteristic way, that this was some sort of new info or insight) this week on his radio show. Obama is "highly educated" - and he displays not the slightest understanding of any topic under the sun, from economics to history to national security to, especially, his area of alleged expertise and training, US constitutional law (where his pronouncements are astonishing in their absurdity, and horrifying in that they are not uncommon from the clueless of his persuasion).

I remain mildly hopeful that generational change (i.e., passing of the Worst Generation, a large portion of the Vietnam War era folks) will help things get back to more sensible territory. But the borrowed trouble, the self-inflicted wounds of the nonsense that's been drubbed into young heads throughout the educational complex for a few decades now, will impose costs in the areas of wealth creation, rule of law, human rights, and development of human potential for years to come.

Posted by Verlaine 2008-05-23 12:53|| 2008-05-23 12:53|| Front Page Top

#11 #3, CF. Be careful, after all Barry is an esteemed Columbia graduate.

Posted by Woozle Elmeter 2700 2008-05-23 12:58|| 2008-05-23 12:58|| Front Page Top

#12 Worse yet is the assumption that, since someone went to 'Columbia' (or any of the other name-brand institutions) they *have* to be good.

Fifteen years ago I nearly goaded a Columbia MBA into a bar fight by describing his MBA as 'marginally better' than my UMass-Boston MBA. I haven't seen a gasket blown like that in a while.

Posted by Raj 2008-05-23 13:38|| 2008-05-23 13:38|| Front Page Top

#13 Was his MBA printed on more absorbent double-ply paper?

;)

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2008-05-23 16:04|| 2008-05-23 16:04|| Front Page Top

#14 a smart MBA would outsource the actual fighting to be done. Relatively cheaper, much less risk, and more specialized talent. Go the big ones that fight dirty. I like the "windpipepunch" and "eyegouge", along with the "elbow to the bridge of the nose©". In my twenties, I broke a beer mug in a biker's face. Got to warn you - I'm management now - I ain't cheap ...

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-05-23 18:12|| 2008-05-23 18:12|| Front Page Top

#15 I remember a very sharp high school history teacher. He had a gift for motivation, and often had his students on the edge of their chairs, desperate to hear the climax of his lesson before the bell went off--and he teased them mercilessly about it.

Some days, at the next opportunity after class, there was a mad dash to the library to find out the answer to the cliffhanger.

But they were rewarded for it. In the last few days before finals, he gave "special" classes on "secret" history. Students would bring tape recorders to class, even though it was not testable stuff.

Those classes were almost confidential, in that the stuff was not only not taught in high school, but most of it wasn't even taught in college.

He was the only teacher I've ever heard of who provided a bibliography to students on request, and some would actually would hang on to it for years, punching their way through it.

He created a lot of history teachers.

Posted by Anonymoose 2008-05-23 18:50|| 2008-05-23 18:50|| Front Page Top

#16 CF, the students are not the issue overseas so much as the parents. Not many dummies get selected to go overseas for the government or companies. So it shouldn't be surprising their children are bright. I believe I learned a lot more at the dinner table than in class.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2008-05-23 19:09|| 2008-05-23 19:09|| Front Page Top

#17 What do you think of the quality of education actually delivered?

My only insight into that, beyond the general news article/scholarly publications bit, has to do with the course outline for the one standard course Mr. Lotp taught there before offering his visiting professor special course. The content of that standard course was rigorous and useful, both. FWIW

Posted by lotp 2008-05-23 19:22|| 2008-05-23 19:22|| Front Page Top

#18 lotp: An unwarranted assumption, to be sure. But despite the fact that Mr. Lotp and I teach at a rather highly ranked, well-regarded school, when he spent a year on sabbatical at one of the better Ivies he *did* report a quality difference in the students, on average, compared to ours.

lotp, fyi:
I never did finished my Degree... duh... so forgive as Ima kinda slo..

Then as to the quality difference between the students at Ivies and yourns, whose smarty-pantz quality was greator, yourns or dem students at the Ivies?
<:|~

Posted by RD">RD 2008-05-23 19:29|| 2008-05-23 19:29|| Front Page Top

#19 Ours are a bit more practically oriented. Theirs are very intellectually curious, self-motivated and able and motivated to delve into new material on their own to a greater degree.

Posted by lotp 2008-05-23 19:33|| 2008-05-23 19:33|| Front Page Top

#20 Parents? I have an"obsessive" interets in history. When I took my sons to Tombstone, AZ, they didn't know any of the history. I played the "Wyatt Earp" and "Tombstone" DVD's for them and they said "we were there?"

My Lil Dumbasses.....next time they were there, they knew, and they cared.

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-05-23 19:36|| 2008-05-23 19:36|| Front Page Top

#21 Art in the service of learning -- cool.

Posted by lotp 2008-05-23 19:38|| 2008-05-23 19:38|| Front Page Top

#22 sorry lotp...

~;)

Posted by RD">RD 2008-05-23 19:38|| 2008-05-23 19:38|| Front Page Top

#23 the trick is in relating history to their current lives. When I show them the Anasazi ruins where an entire society disappeared? I say "this is your life , without an education"

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-05-23 19:41|| 2008-05-23 19:41|| Front Page Top

#24 If you educate a stupid person who has no common sense, do you end up with a wise, intelligent person, or an educated stupid person with no common sense?

Posted by no mo uro 2008-05-23 19:52|| 2008-05-23 19:52|| Front Page Top

#25 The artivcle certainly explains a lto abotu State Dept and its penchant for brie, snooty parties and rampant ignorant condescending liberalism.

Posted by OldSpook 2008-05-23 19:57|| 2008-05-23 19:57|| Front Page Top

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