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2006-08-31 -Short Attention Span Theater-
Global Warming Feedback Loop Caused by Methane, Scientists Say
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Posted by Fred 2006-08-31 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11134 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 The dirty little secret of Global Warming is that it doesn't matter how much CO2 is released into the atmosphere, the theoretical maximum increase in global temperature is less than two tenths of one degree celcius. Anyone with high school physics should understand this.

Therefore they need a positive feedback mechanism that CO2 triggers to cause an increase beyond this, hence this kind of 'research'.

Of course, the other dirty little secret is that were such a positive feedback mechanism to exist, then why hasn't it run away at some point in the past and given the planet a much hotter climate. The reality is the current climate is within a couple of degrees of the warmest it's ever been going back several million years.
Posted by phil_b 2006-08-31 01:12||   2006-08-31 01:12|| Front Page Top

#2 The reality is the current climate is within a couple of degrees of the warmest it's ever been going back several million years.

Proof?

I have to disagree with that statement. There simply is not enough data to support it.

Perhaps a better way to put it would be that apparently a mechanism exists that compensates for any temperature imballances > +- 2 deg C, since there has been no runaway effect as far as we know, in the past.

I have a reason to believe that even severe distortions caused by external factors (near-ELE type of event) would be rolled back witnin a couple of decades.
Posted by twobyfour 2006-08-31 10:18||   2006-08-31 10:18|| Front Page Top

#3 Nobody gives a sheat and besides, what can we do about it anyway ?
The issue of global warming is the citadel of moonbatism. Bark, bark, bark.
Posted by wxjames 2006-08-31 10:59||   2006-08-31 10:59|| Front Page Top

#4 Global Warming Feedback Loop Caused by Methane, Scientists Say

everyone needs a power take off for their A$$
Posted by RD 2006-08-31 14:43||   2006-08-31 14:43|| Front Page Top

#5 twobyfour, there are plenty of past temperature reconstructions and they all look more or less the same (sample at Wikipedia). We are currently close to the peak temperature of the current interglacial. Almost all of the last 2 or 3 million years has been much colder than currently (I guess that's why they call it an Ice Age).

You may dispute the accuracy of these past temperature reconstructions, but I can tell you they are generally accepted and are largely unchanged since the 70s when they were used to argue Global Cooling was the imminent disaster.

And BTW the past temperature record supports a the contention that were the earth to warm much from here, the result would be a rapid fall in temperatures and a return to the Ice Age (proper).

Anyway, the temperature record shows no evidence of runaway warming at temperatures a couple of degrees higher than currently (in the last 2 or 3 million years), which was my point.
Posted by phil_b 2006-08-31 18:48||   2006-08-31 18:48|| Front Page Top

#6 phil_b, Yes, I know all these points. But I also know there is a lot of anomalous data that point to different scenarios.

And BTW the past temperature record supports a the contention that were the earth to warm much from here, the result would be a rapid fall in temperatures and a return to the Ice Age (proper).

Well, how about "Climatic Optimum"? The average temps stood about 1.5-2 degrees above the average Holocene temps. For almost 2500 years. It has been calcualted by some that if the temp is 1 degree above the current average, the ice sheets would disappear in the span of 700 years (some sources give 300 years figure). Completely. Now, imagine that you have 2500 years with 2 degrees above "normal". First, the "ice age" did not occur when the temps dropped, and second, most of ice, if not all, was gone at the end of this period. Hencetoforth, if someone tells me that they drilled ice cores spanning 400kya, I am suspicious. More so that I've seen what happens to ice sheets during summer. The surface melts during the day and the resulting water seeps through, taking particles and gas bubbles downward. It refreezes during night, creating faux layers.

I also have problems with deep sea sediments. The selection of the sediment location was skewed, in the sense that locations that provided the thickest layers were picked. But the problem is that there are locations in deep sea that have almost no sediments at all. Should be uniform, across the globe, especially in location that are not subject to ocean currents and are deeper than locations with ample layers of sediments, no? Not the case.

Those are just 2 examples why I don't subscribe to the current (spanning a couple of mya) climatic paradigm.
Posted by twobyfour 2006-08-31 20:28||   2006-08-31 20:28|| Front Page Top

#7 And Global Cooling?

Since when do the Warming advocates toss in the effect of random but unrelenting major volcanic activity? What are their assumptions on frequency and size? One major eruption and you get a year without summer. Get a series and you’re rapidly cooling.

Oh, right, man is not involved.
Posted by Anginesing Angeremp2779 2006-08-31 21:42||   2006-08-31 21:42|| Front Page Top

#8 And what, prey tell, is the estimated accuracy of temperature crysal-balling going back millions of years? How does that estimated accuracy compare with the estimated change in temperature? And how do both of those compare with the estimated change in solar output?

Ya don't know?

Shut up.



O.K., I wuz rude. From what I have read recently, those three numbers are within the same ball park, maybe even the same infield. Possibly within the pitcher's mound.
Posted by Bobby 2006-08-31 21:43||   2006-08-31 21:43|| Front Page Top

#9 No Bobby, not rude, a perfectly good point with an emphasis! ;-)
Posted by twobyfour 2006-08-31 23:25||   2006-08-31 23:25|| Front Page Top

#10 Anginesing Angeremp2779, actually, since some cooling is taking apparently place lately, the "Global Warming" proponents started to use "Global Climate Change", so they would not look stupid.

When was the last Etna volcanic activity, I think 2002? Anyway, it went on for almost a couple of months. During that time, this volcano alone spewed as much of pollutants and CO2 as all humans generated during the previous 15 years.
Posted by twobyfour 2006-08-31 23:41||   2006-08-31 23:41|| Front Page Top

07:37 Rob Crawford
23:41 twobyfour
23:41 Frank G
23:40 J. D. Lux
23:32 CrazyFool
23:30 Thoth
23:29 J. D. Lux
23:29 ed
23:27 Barbara Skolaut
23:25 twobyfour
23:23 Zenster
23:21 J. D. Lux
23:20 Zenster
23:19 Barbara Skolaut
23:16 Frank G
23:15 Zenster
23:11 Zenster
23:09 Zenster
23:07 Zenster
23:04 Zenster
23:02 trailing wife
23:00 Frank G
23:00 Dreadnought
22:58 Zenster









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