Article

2006-08-27 Israel-Palestine-Jordan

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Posted by tipper 2006-08-27 06:55|| || Front Page|| [8 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 I'll bet I could convert them to the Native American Church once they get back.

Posted by 6 2006-08-27 07:03|| 2006-08-27 07:03|| Front Page Top

#2 But could you do it so peacefully?

Posted by Perfesser 2006-08-27 07:43|| 2006-08-27 07:43|| Front Page Top

#3 Put a plate of ribs and links in front of Centanni and Wiig. Anyone want to bet what happens? [crickets]

Posted by Zenster 2006-08-27 07:54|| 2006-08-27 07:54|| Front Page Top

#4 So if they abandon their new Muslim faith once they're released, will they be sentenced to death by Muslim courts for apostasy? I'm just wondering if they're going to have to avoid Muslim countries forever now. Which wouldn't be a bad idea for all of us, frankly.

Posted by WhiteCollarRedneck 2006-08-27 08:14|| 2006-08-27 08:14|| Front Page Top

#5 Now the can join the Salman Rushdie Club.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-08-27 08:15|| 2006-08-27 08:15|| Front Page Top

#6 I'm glad they are free, but this is just an example of what we are facing. Forced conversion.

I'm all for forced silence, by carpet bombing.

Posted by DarthVader">DarthVader 2006-08-27 08:29|| 2006-08-27 08:29|| Front Page Top

#7 Peeve: already someone at Tim Blair's site trotted out the "OH! This is against Islam!" crap. Sorry, but, no, Wiit and Centanni were given the three choices Mohammed mandated: conversion, dhimmitude, or death. The line about there being no compulsion in religion (invariably trotted out in cases like this) dated to when Mohammed needed the goodwill of the local potentates, and was abandoned as soon as he had the military muscle to start forcing conversions.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2006-08-27 08:30|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2006-08-27 08:30|| Front Page Top

#8 #4 If they denounce Islam now yes they can be sentenced to death for apostasy, a sentence that can be carried out by local or any handy muslim once the fatwa is issued.

Worse, though, a) if they don't denounce their diversion, the Islamists look like they've won honour for Allah and

b) If they DO denounce their diversion that might shut the door of the loophole for any future hostages wishing to "convert to Islam" to save themselves. If they denounce it future Islamist kidnappers may simply not believe they will get good PR from the "convert" hostages and kill them anyway - right after they "convert" so they can use the tape for Allah's propaganda.

A lose-lose situation. But in another sense a win, the hostages are alive and safe.

I'd advise them (though every grain and fibre rebels against it on moral grounds) to keep quiet on the fact that it's a conversion of convenience to keep the door over for those that might follow.

This is a war against fascist Islam. Wish we'd called the spade a friggin spade in the beginning and let the Muslims decide whether they wanted all out war or not instead of tippie toeing about their religious sensibilities with that 'war on terror' crap.

Posted by anon1 2006-08-27 08:46|| 2006-08-27 08:46|| Front Page Top

#9 I converted.

Posted by Uncle Ben">Uncle Ben 2006-08-27 09:04|| 2006-08-27 09:04|| Front Page Top

#10 Notice it's a "separate statement" from the islamonuts that says they were offered 3 choices. The victims have a different story - and a weird slant on islam, the religion of peas.

"We were forced to convert to Islam at gunpoint," Centanni later told Fox. "Don't get me wrong here. I have the highest respect for Islam, and I learned a lot of good things about it, but it was something we felt we had to do because they had the guns, and we didn't know what the hell was going on." (from Yahoo news)

Convert or die seems to have been the only choice presented. What the islamonuts don't get is that westerners don't believe the permanent conversion nonsense they do.

Posted by Thinemp Whimble2412 2006-08-27 09:18|| 2006-08-27 09:18|| Front Page Top

#11 You heard of the tea party held by the Lebanese Army for the IDF. I thought the reports were fake. A Youtube video says otherwise. (Sorry, AOL does not handle Tags properly.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjxZcmdazpo

Posted by Snease Shaiting3550 2006-08-27 09:20|| 2006-08-27 09:20|| Front Page Top

#12 Do these kidnappers get in trouble by the "lions of Islam" for taking the headlines away from the victory of South Lebanon being bombed back 25 years?

Posted by plainslow 2006-08-27 09:23|| 2006-08-27 09:23|| Front Page Top

#13 Saw Mr. Centanni on television this morning. To paraphrase him he said: We had guns pointed at our heads when we announced our conversion to islam. But don't get me wrong I have the highest respect for islam. We've learned some wonderful things about islam.

People can and should be forgiven for saying and doing certain things while under exteme duress.

Having said that I hasten to add that Mr. Centanni lost my sympathy when he said during his news conference he had the highest respect for islam.

Spit.

Posted by Mark Z 2006-08-27 09:25|| 2006-08-27 09:25|| Front Page Top

#14 he said that in the presence of the Hamas PM and about 20 swarthy men with weapons. Some "press conference"

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-08-27 10:13|| 2006-08-27 10:13|| Front Page Top

#15 "til' Underverse come . . . " Where's Riddick when you need him?

Posted by ex-lib 2006-08-27 11:19|| 2006-08-27 11:19|| Front Page Top

#16 convert to islam at gunpoint. isn't that what they're trying to do to the west?

how islamic of them.

Posted by PlanetDan">PlanetDan 2006-08-27 11:33|| 2006-08-27 11:33|| Front Page Top

#17 Convert to Islam, in terms of obediance, is what this war on terror has been about from the beginning. 9/11 was a series of acts by Islamic Caliphate Agents (The ICA) to make all world governments live under the law of Islam.

Posted by Jules in the Hinterlands 2006-08-27 12:24|| 2006-08-27 12:24|| Front Page Top

#18 So we could baptise every Fucker in GitMo and force them to eat ham at gunpoint!

Posted by 3dc 2006-08-27 12:27|| 2006-08-27 12:27|| Front Page Top

#19 Here's a report by someone who converted - hopefully she's lying about it to get interviews:
http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD126706
The interviewer is former Sunday Express (U.K.) journalist Yvonne Ridley [1], who was captured by the Taliban in Afghanistan in 2001 and who converted to Islam after her release.....
Aug 25 SD# 1267 - Former Malaysian PM Mahathir Mohammad's Interview on U.K.'s Islam [TV] Channel by Yvonne Ridley: We Should Quietly Undermine the U.S. by Refusing to Use its Currency; Britain is a 3rd-Rate Power & Blair is a Poodle; Nasrallah Fights the Same Way for Same Reason as Bin Laden

Posted by Dakota Freedom 2006-08-27 12:58|| 2006-08-27 12:58|| Front Page Top

#20 hopefully she's lying about it to get interviews

Lying about what? Having converted? Don't think so. Any major Up-with-terrorists event in Britain features Ridley as a speaker. She was a nut before she converted, though.

Posted by Angie Schultz 2006-08-27 13:04|| 2006-08-27 13:04|| Front Page Top

#21 Perhaps Ridley is "in bed" with Georgie-boy Galloway.

Posted by Dakota Freedom 2006-08-27 13:40|| 2006-08-27 13:40|| Front Page Top

#22 Jill Carrol - another reporter hostage turned convert to islam.

Posted by john 2006-08-27 13:55|| 2006-08-27 13:55|| Front Page Top

#23 Mark Z - re: Centanno's press conference - Stockholm syndrome

Posted by DMFD 2006-08-27 13:59|| 2006-08-27 13:59|| Front Page Top

#24 Centanni - PIMF

Posted by DMFD 2006-08-27 13:59|| 2006-08-27 13:59|| Front Page Top

#25 The deal is this, folks. These two newzies went to a place where these activities such as murder, booming, religious fanaticism, kidnapping, etc etc, are the norm. They should not expect sympathy or aid from the outside world when they go into sh*tholes like Gaza or Chechnya. I am glad that they are safe, but I have little sympathy for them, as the bottom line is that they are tools (willing or unwilling) for a bunch of subhuman terrorists in the propaganda war.

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2006-08-27 14:29|| 2006-08-27 14:29|| Front Page Top

#26 That Ridley bitch has been "in bed" with Islam for a very long time. Crap she's made a hobby out of marrying middle eastern men. She also once worked for Al Jazeera.

Posted by RJB in JC MO 2006-08-27 14:44|| 2006-08-27 14:44|| Front Page Top

#27 Yvonne Ridley

Posted by Seafarious">Seafarious 2006-08-27 16:49|| 2006-08-27 16:49|| Front Page Top

#28 Of course, under the severe and hostile doctrines of the Wahhabi-Deobandi-Muslim Brother sects of radical Islam, anyone who converts away from Islam is considered an apostate worthy of death.

Word of advice to Cetanni and Wiig: stay clear and far from any lands that hold large numbers of seething Muslims. In other words, make your Mars or Moon landing plans soon.

Posted by Lancasters Over Dresden 2006-08-27 16:55|| http://www.michaelcalderonscall.com/HomePage.asp]">[http://www.michaelcalderonscall.com/HomePage.asp] 2006-08-27 16:55|| Front Page Top

#29 *Muslim Brotherhood* ... and I should add, the Shia militants don't take to conversions away from Islam very kindly either.

Posted by Lancasters Over Dresden 2006-08-27 16:56|| http://www.michaelcalderonscall.com/HomePage.asp]">[http://www.michaelcalderonscall.com/HomePage.asp] 2006-08-27 16:56|| Front Page Top

#30 I am personally involved in a situation dealing with conversion. I won't use names because I wish to protect the identity of people dear to me. My landlord was posted to Afghanistan last November. I got a call last Tuesday from his very distraught wife (both are vw=ery dear friends). He got back in the US in early August. He has converted to Islam. This is the first instance I know of a US soldier deployed to Afghanistan or Iraq who has converted. She is a very devout Christian and is absolutely devasted. I have known these people for 10 years and would never have believed he could renounce his God and embrace the Moon-worshipping Death-cult. He has abandoned his family (two sons, one of which is in Iraq, the other a junior in High School) for a fools errand. Don't underestimate the appeal of Islam. It absolves one of ALL personnal responsibility claiming everything is the will of Allah. You run a red light and kill someone? The will of Allah. Someone won't convert or submit to Islam? You kill them because it's the will of Allah. Islam is the cult for weak people who will not take responsibility for their own actions or need the extremely rigid regimine of Islam to bring order to their lives. They are incapable of regulating their behavior and wish, in some cases, to justify their bloodthirsty existence by claiming it's "God's will". Bullshit!

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2006-08-27 17:42|| 2006-08-27 17:42|| Front Page Top

#31 Sorry to tell you this, Deacon Blues, but I've met more than a few Christians who navigate by the "God's will" autopilot. That said, Islam's near monolithic use of this mindless justification puts it in a class of its own, and makes it exceedingly more dangerous.

Posted by Zenster 2006-08-27 17:55|| 2006-08-27 17:55|| Front Page Top

#32 Update
"Palestinian security sources close to the negotiators told TIME that the two Fox Newsmen reporter Steve Centanni, 60, from Washington D.C. and New Zealand cameraman Olaf Wiig, 36 were kidnapped from Gaza to embarrass Haniyehs government. The militants, who earlier identified themselves as members of the previously unknown Holy Jihad Brigades, were enraged with fellow Hamas militants because they too had joined in the daring capture on June 25th of Corp. Shalit, in which Palestinian gunmen tunneled under a wall and attacked an Israeli army post. But according to these security sources, the militant groups fell out after Hamas military wing took control of Shalit and elbowed the other co-conspirators aside.

In revenge, these militants, who belong to a splinter group of the late Yasser Arafats Fatah movement, struck back by seizing the two journalists, these sources said.

Haniyeh was able to secure the journalists freedom, but at a high price: he has agreed to give these armed extremists a role in deciding the fate of the Israeli soldier, these sources said."

Posted by tipper 2006-08-27 18:23|| 2006-08-27 18:23|| Front Page Top

#33 Zenster, I am well aware of the Christian proclivity to atribute anything that happens as "God's Will". I don't believe they discount personal responsibility as the Muslims do. When asked directly "So God caused that person to get drunk and run the red light" they invariably answer, "No the person got drunk because he wanted to". Muslims believe EVERYTHING that happens is the will of Allan. Try dealing with the Saudi Arabian passport office.

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2006-08-27 18:52|| 2006-08-27 18:52|| Front Page Top

#34 I don't believe they discount personal responsibility as the Muslims do.

Which is what I said as well;

"Islam's near monolithic use of this mindless justification puts it in a class of its own"

Posted by Zenster 2006-08-27 19:00|| 2006-08-27 19:00|| Front Page Top

#35 #30 DB: "[Islam] absolves one of ALL personnal responsibility claiming everything is the will of Allah."

I keep saying that the Islamonutz (paleos, et al.) live in backward hellholes and keep getting their asses kicked by the infidels and the Jooooos because it's Allan's will.

I can't understand why they don't just quit fighting and accept their place as the toilet of the world that Allan has decreed for them.

Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut 2006-08-27 19:09|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/page/15bk1/Home_Page.html]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/page/15bk1/Home_Page.html] 2006-08-27 19:09|| Front Page Top

#36 Agree, Barbara. They get their butts kicked so much one would be tempted to believe God is against them. Only a Muslim could declare victory while standing amid the rubble of all his civilization stands for. Bugwits.

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2006-08-27 19:37|| 2006-08-27 19:37|| Front Page Top

#37 Debka on the Conversion

A Hostage Affair in Gaza is Ended by a Three-Part Ransom

DEBKAfile Exclusive Report

August 27, 2006, 3:29 PM (GMT+02:00)

Gilead Shalit was left out of the release package for Fox journalists

On the face of it, conversion to Islam would appear to provide a painless escape device for any hostage who happens to fall into fundamentalist terrorist hands. After all, once free, the hostage can always revert to his real faith or non-faith. It is hard to blame the two Fox News journalists, the American Steve Centanni, 60, and the New Zealander, Olaf Wiig, 36, for taking that path on to buy their way out of an uncertain fate at the hands of Palestinian terrorists especially as they later reported they were forced to make the gesture at gunpoint.

And, indeed the two journalists were released from 13 days of captivity in Gaza three hours after announcing their conversion on a new videotape released by the kidnappers in Gaza.

Relief over the two journalists coming safely out of their ordeal is quite apart from considerations of the consequences for the war on terrorism. It must be said that the Palestinian kidnappers also walked away without suffering any harm and can keep on snatching victims without fear exactly as the same terrorist gang got away with murdering three Americans in Gaza in 2003. In fact, the prime minister Ismail Haniya, who belongs to an Islamist terror group, was allowed to take credit for the release after winning a face saver in the form of the conversions and an anti-American diatribe.

Some further points are worth considering:

1. Shortly after Centanni and Wiig were snatched by masked gunmen in Gaza on Aug. 14, the various intelligence agencies operating in Gaza knew who the kidnapper was: the Palestinian warlord Zakaria Dughmush, who had been hired by the same Hamas group which on June 25 kidnapped and - is still holding - the Israeli soldier Gilead Shalit.

Dughmush is a former follower of the late Jemal Semhadana, head of the Palestinian Popular Resistance Committees who was killed in Rafah by rockets fired from an Israeli warplane on June 8, 2006. Semhadana was the first Palestinian terrorist to attack Americans. He staged the bombing attack of October 15, 2003 on a US embassy convoy from Tel Aviv as it drove past Beit Hanoun in the northern Gaza Strip. Three American security officers died in that attack.

After Semhadanas death, his PRC fragmented into several small militias, one of them led by Dughmush, a fundamentalist freelance terrorist, who set up base in Gaza City. He was adopted by Hamas, but also draws funds and weapons from al Qaeda and Hizballah elements working together in the Gaza Strip.

The efforts of the Hamas abductors of Shalit to negotiate a prisoner swap broke down. Hamas ended up refusing the quid pro quo of a promise by Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert, already deposited with Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak, to release 600 Palestinian prisoners. The abductors held out for a simultaneous trade and then withdrew from the talks.

Then, when pressure built up to end the episode which was embarrassing Haniya, Mahmoud Abbas and others, they contracted Dughmush to stage a more spectacular abduction operation. He chose the two American Fox New journalists as his prey.

2. Although the foreign intelligence agencies with a presence in Gaza knew where the Fox reporters were being held, neither the Americans, the Israelis nor the British the senior US ally in the war on terror were willing to go in and recover them by force, or even lay hands on Dughmush and his gunmen.

In the final reckoning, the Palestinians were granted a face-saver the Hamas prime minister in particular, who is using the release of the American and the New Zealander to whitewash his organization, without freeing the Israeli soldier.

3. Various Palestinian middlemen were used by British agents at the request of the US to bring the Fox journalists home. They worked out a convoluted deal which entailed their public conversion to Islam, an anti-American harangue on air and a six-figure cash ransom paid under the table to Dughmush to fund his terrorist militias operations in Gaza. While the first two parts of the ransom were publicly aired, the third part will no doubt be vehemently denied. But the face remains that a terrorist chief who freelances for at least three fundamentalist terrorist organizations walks free with a strong incentive to develop his profitable hostage-taking business.

4. For Israel, the fate of Gilead Shalit, whom Hamas kidnapped from sovereign Israel in a cross-border assault, is left up in the air. Israel did not link him to the two Fox journalists; Hamas did. The Americans, the New Zealanders and the British worked fast to separate the two abduction episodes. Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert, who says he does not sleep at night for worrying about Shalit and the two Israelis in Hizballah hands, did not take advantage of the subsequent abductions of Centanni and Wiig to have him included in the package for their release. He must have known that the two journalists would not have been released without the say-so of the Hamas group holding the Israeli soldier. This was a card Olmert did not play.

All that remains to be found out now about this shabby episode is the size of the rake-off the Palestinian warlord Dughmush has handed over from his ransom to Shalits Hamas abductors.

Posted by 3dc 2006-08-27 20:15|| 2006-08-27 20:15|| Front Page Top

#38 Remember, this isn't a religious war or anything like that......

Posted by Swamp Blondie 2006-08-27 23:45|| http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com ]">[http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com ] 2006-08-27 23:45|| Front Page Top

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