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2006-06-23 Home Front: WoT

New Furor Erupts as Spying Secret Is Compromised

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Posted by ryuge 2006-06-23 06:18|| || Front Page|| [11133 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Enemies, foreign and domestic...

Send them to Guantanamo as illegeal combatants.

Posted by DanNY 2006-06-23 07:09|| 2006-06-23 07:09|| Front Page Top

#2 "I'm not sure the Bush administration has a stomach for a fight with the media of that magnitude, but it's become more and more clear that it's necessary," Mr. Schoenfeld said.

I think Schoenfeld's right, on both counts: we're no longer "leaking" classified information; we're hemorrhaging classified information. It's got to be stopped, by whatever means is necessary, or we're going to lose this war.

And Bush doesn't have the stomach to do it.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-06-23 07:35|| 2006-06-23 07:35|| Front Page Top

#3 Our media is filled with Quislings, and for what its worth I'm sick and tired of it.

Posted by JerseyMike 2006-06-23 08:39|| 2006-06-23 08:39|| Front Page Top

#4 There is only one way with these Journalists. The law is not protecting us from this kind of criminal activity by "journalists" and the media. Someone is going to have to do what is right.

These people are openly aiding the terrorsits that took the world trade center down. How do people in New York State live with this activity? They must all support it because they haven't stopped it.

Posted by Sock Puppet of Doom 2006-06-23 09:06|| 2006-06-23 09:06|| Front Page Top

#5 SWIFT should be capitalized. It's the system that tranfers money between an acount in bank A and an account in Bank B (at least internationally).

Otherwise dismal dismal reporting. They throw out a phrase borrowed from a press release - international bank transfers - with no understanding of what it means.

As usual the NYT - All the 'news' that's fit to spin.

Posted by phil_b">phil_b 2006-06-23 09:10|| http://autonomousoperation.blogspot.com/]">[http://autonomousoperation.blogspot.com/] 2006-06-23 09:10|| Front Page Top

#6 So why doesn't the government prosecute under one of the Treason or Sedition Acts such as were Axis Sally, Tokyo Rose, Lord HawHaw during WWII (Tokyo Rose was later pardoned in some kind of deal. Not sure about the outcome of the others.)

Posted by JohnQC 2006-06-23 09:14|| 2006-06-23 09:14|| Front Page Top

#7 It's anti-administration and anti-American, everything we have come to expect from the New York Slimes. The LA Slimes are clearly anti-war from their past treatment of stories and borderline communist. This is the release of classified material, there should be action. What would happen if I or you released classified material to the public?

Posted by bigjim-ky 2006-06-23 09:45|| 2006-06-23 09:45|| Front Page Top

#8 Rope. Tree. Journalist.
Some assembly required.

Posted by DarthVader 2006-06-23 09:53|| 2006-06-23 09:53|| Front Page Top

#9 Treason line was crossed over the NSA intercepts. Try em and jail em. Some empty cages in Gitmo, I here. They can pray along with their fellow travelers

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-06-23 09:55|| 2006-06-23 09:55|| Front Page Top

#10 ~~here~~ hear....no coffee yet

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-06-23 09:56|| 2006-06-23 09:56|| Front Page Top

#11 So what. The Senate voted 93 to continue the war on terror with only the 3 moonbats voting no and the rest abstaining. The NYT stock is beginning to openly hemorrhage.

I wouldn't count on Bush not having the stomach for this.

Posted by 2b 2006-06-23 10:47|| 2006-06-23 10:47|| Front Page Top

#12 Oh how I would LOVE to see a couple of ~~traitors~~ reporters (sic) frog marched out of the NYT building. This news story didnt help anybody but the truly stupid Jihadis and trust me most of them are VERY stupid when it comes to security. I suspect that since 9/11 NSA has mapped out most of the Alqaeda financial transactions and holdings. The EVIL NAZI HITLERITE U.S. was probably hot on the rest of the senior leadership by way of seeing where the money came from and went to. But thanks to the NYT that method of tracking the bad guys is probably gone forever. WTG NYT! Now please drop that façade and change your name to the Islamic Times of NY.

Posted by Cyber Sarge 2006-06-23 11:30|| 2006-06-23 11:30|| Front Page Top

#13 The NYT should be prosecuted for giving away state secrets. They were asked not to do it. I tell you, if some of these self-annointed, elitess would be prosecuted, they would be a little more careful about pushing their pro-AQ, defeatess anti-American agenda. Moreover, if a few hangings would occur of the terrorists that are in this country such as in Miami, Buffalo, NYC, etc, etc, etc. The motivation for being a jihadist wouldn't be so attractive--there is currently little penalty for being a jihadist. The mosques that are preaching hatred and inspiring terrorism should be shut down--they have ceased to maintain the line between church and State. They should not have the protection of the First Amendment. Their assets should be seized and sold off. They should be prosecuted under treason and sedition laws or under Rico (organized crime laws).

Posted by JohnQC 2006-06-23 11:42|| 2006-06-23 11:42|| Front Page Top

#14 This will go on exponentially until someone is prosecuted. The NYT is working with all the LLL to destroy the government. This is treasonous behavior.

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2006-06-23 11:54|| 2006-06-23 11:54|| Front Page Top

#15 3 things:

Stop the leaks.

Find the assholes who did theleaking and PUT THEM IN JAIL.

Put the NYT on trial for illegally recivging classified information and failing to act properly with it (There are several sections int he US Code that are very specific about this being criminal behanvior). Put the reporters and editors BEHIND BARS, and civilly forfiet all thier posesssions and money under RICO.

Untile we jail the leakers and make the adversarial press take LEGAL conseqences for their lawbreaking, this will continue.

Its that damn simple - the NYT wants too macke a splash agains the president so muchthtat is is willing to repeatedly break the law and entice others to break the law. It must be held accountable.

Posted by Oldspook 2006-06-23 12:07|| 2006-06-23 12:07|| Front Page Top

#16 Bush has nobody but himself to blame. Hes in charge and responsible. If he wanted it to stop he could put actions into motion - but he won't. He'll just lament the NYTs decision and "sternly" ask them not to do it again just like he did before.

Posted by Yosemite Sam 2006-06-23 12:17|| 2006-06-23 12:17|| Front Page Top

#17 Bush needs to call Sulzberg, Lichtbau and the sr NYT edito who approved this to come up to the Whitehouse, have them sit down and have the Att Gen of the US explain to the consequneces of his actions - and then the RICO statues and how Pinch could lose the Times and the others lose thier homes, cars, etc - and then explain how they violated several security laws. Then have them ALL cuffed right there and frog marched OUT of the Whitehouse, put on a plane and flown by Con-Air to leavenworth where they can then hear the bond plea.

Yes the press has to be held accountable. They have a right to publish this - no pre-publication censroship at all. But after-the-fact, they can and MUST be prosecuted for the violation of the law and held accountable for the consequences of their acts. The press always asks: who atches the watcher... Well who is Watching the PRESS and holding THEM accountable?

Posted by Oldspook 2006-06-23 12:23|| 2006-06-23 12:23|| Front Page Top

#18 §798. Disclosure of Classified Information.

(a) Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information

(1) concerning the nature, preparation, or use of any code, cipher, or cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government; or
(2) concerning the design, construction, use, maintenance, or repair of any device, apparatus, or appliance used or prepared or planned for use by the United States or any foreign government for cryptographic or communication intelligence purposes; or
(3) concerning the communication intelligence activities of the United States or any foreign government; or
(4) obtained by the processes of communication intelligence from the communications of any foreign government, knowing the same to have been obtained by such processes

Shall be fined not more than $10,000 or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both.

(b) As used in this subsection (a) of this section
The term classified information means information which, at the time of a violation of this section, is, for reasons of national security, specifically designated by a United States Government Agency for limited or restricted dissemination or distribution;
The terms code, cipher, and cryptographic system include in their meanings, in addition to their usual meanings, any method of secret writing and any mechanical or electrical device or method used for the purpose of disguising or concealing the contents, significance, or meanings of communications;
The term foreign government includes in its meaning any person or persons acting or purporting to act for or on behalf of any faction, party, department, agency, bureau, or military force of or within a foreign country, or for or on behalf of any government or any person or persons purporting to act as a government within a foreign country, whether or not such government is recognized by the United States;
The term communication intelligence means all procedures and methods used in the interception of communications and the obtaining of information from such communications by other than the intended recipients;
The term unauthorized person means any person who, or agency which, is not authorized to receive information of the categories set forth in subsection (a) of this section, by the President, or by the head of a department or agency of the United States Government which is expressly designated by the President to engage in communication intelligence activities for the United States.

Posted by Oldspook 2006-06-23 12:31|| 2006-06-23 12:31|| Front Page Top

#19 As if I needed more reason to hate the NYT and the LAT.

Posted by anymouse">anymouse 2006-06-23 13:25|| 2006-06-23 13:25|| Front Page Top

#20 I would squirm with delite if the US Government arrested Bill Keller, and gave him a summary trial for sedition - and - if he was found guilty by a jury of average American (war veterans), was taken out back of the courthouse and shot.

To hell with all the seething and outrage that would result. Protection of the Republic trumps any commercial interests. Once the government told the whiners to "go to hell," I'll bet it would be awhile before the next newspaper disclosed sensitive national defense information.

Disloyal, seditious, mean-spirited, defeatist, negative, partisan, biased, dubious, unprofessional, unpatriotic, disgusting - that's the New York Times.

Posted by Lone Ranger 2006-06-23 13:43|| 2006-06-23 13:43|| Front Page Top

#21 A bit of soapbox commentary... my apologies for the length.

Many of our institutions, the press and the education system being prime examples of probably equal importance, are based as much in honor and trust as in law. The relationship has been kept in balance mainly because the exceptions where the privilege has been grossly abused were bashed or cajoled back into line by their own. A self-regulating code which we rely upon in many of our institutions. A code that is in obvious jeopardy or dead in some cases.

We are in the midst of a sea change, IMO, regards the honor and trustworthiness of these privileged quasi-governmental institutions. A tipping point in their unelected leadership has apparently been passed and there is consistent proof that many have grown too large and powerful for the self-correction of peer judgment and the number of such arrogant pretenders to power now seems sufficient to shelter, if not favor, the untrustworthy, the dishonorable. Appeals to honor have been met with further similar actions - and they have little to do with the press mantra ("the public's right to know") or the educators mantra ("we expose the students to the whole range of thought") - they are about power and influence. They are about control. They are about undermining our system of fair-play and equal opportunity in the public square to make sure one side, one message is heard. This amounts to sedition, I believe.

Except for the divide during the Civil War, AFAIK, the situation is unprecedented, at least in terms of endangering Americans and the very vitality of our Republic. There is no obvious immediate solution other than to prosecute case by case. Has the time for lining people up against the wall come? Are we that far down this road? I'm seriously beginning to wonder. I'm afraid that, sure as the sun will appear in the East tomorrow morning, we approach that moment. Everybody - even the loonies - seem to "feel" it.

I think President Bush is honorable and worthy of America's trust. I'll speculate a bit and guess that this puts me in a minority of, say, 40%. Another minority of, say, 20% consider Sulzberger and his lot to be the trustworthy and honorable party in the impasse. The remaining 40% aren't so sure about either - and probably split, issue by issue. We don't need lockstep, but we certainly do need to restore honor and trust to our system. We need (at least) two political parties participating - rationally. I believe Bush has proceeded with caution and restraint. He has called upon their honor and been not just rebuffed, but ridiculed and reviled.

Box checked.

The key seems to be that the publisher lot has a powerful grip on The Message - and they're wielding it with abandon in service of interests that do not want the same America that most Americans want - applying the numbers I've suggested above. Due to their actions, the situation has devolved into a bizarre vendetta to destroy the Bush Presidency. I have come to believe that they would do the same to any Presidency which didn't dance to their tune. They have poisoned the entirety of public discourse. The Democrat Party has, since they lack any rational ideas of their own, jumped on-board, jettisoning any hope of beating back this insanity. It's akin to institutional suicide - for both. All to do... what? Get Bush? Destroy America as we know it and want it to remain? Whose America will this country become?

As with Islam, it seems obvious that we have been engaged in an all-out war. That undeclared cowardly war began with the Oil Embargo of 1973 and became so obvious anyone could see it in Tehran in 1979. Now we have a socialist / Tranzi war on the American democracy from within which has come out into the open - and this instance probably became obvious, at least to some of us, with Nixon and Vietnam. They were victorious in bringing down a government and setting the stage for today. Those who "felt the power" as teens now have weaseled their way into positions of authority and power. They have swallowed their own immaculate teenage fantasy bullshit and revel in the numbers of Senators and Congressmen and Judges and Deans and Party Leaders and Elites they have nurtured and harbored until they believe they can repeat the stunt. The Second Wave cometh.

Since President Bush was duly elected, twice (a shot for the fevered brow crowd to get excited about), then he is the leader of the American democracy. His decisions and efforts have been a mixture of bold action and attempts to build consensus. Some have been profoundly bold. Some have been amazingly tame. Has he failed us? Not yet, we're still here bitching and complaining where we can find a suitable venue. Has he moved too slow or taken positions which we find far too mild on some issues? Yes, indeed. There is no apparent consensus possible on some issues, such as endangering America by putting private power games above the Constitution or allowing a massive influx of illegals who, simply put, cannot be trusted. I'll take my concerns to the ballot box, regards Bush and Congress. Regards these usurpers... I'm now beginning to realize that in my heart of hearts I favor stronger measures.

I've heard it repeated that he is fair game for any and all criticism. I personally do not agree with that except in principle - the principle of public discourse and redress where society decides, where laws are made under the Constitution, and judicial fiat is unthinkable - but that well has been thoroughly poisoned and is tightly controlled by the publishers and editors. Regards the judicial activists, those ideals are proven lost every day - from Kelo to the release of sex offenders, from almost anything the Ninth Circuit decides to the inability to get effective voter fraud measures in place.

Write a Letter To The Editor which takes the press to task for such leaks... which demands of them accountability and honesty in their overwhelming repetition of lies and idiot memes, proven false repeatedly... which demands to know why the emergence of obvious agendas is not allowed to be discussed and condemned in their pages... which demands that they acknowledge its existence and one-sided view... Pick any topic in which they have obviously thrown aside the very reason our Constitution granted them favor and demand they account for their actions, just as they disingenuously demand of others. What will happen? Nothing. I've tried it with both mild and strong versions. What I see is merely occasional lip-service to dissenting opinion on the Op-Ed page and the continued diatribe of one-sided, specious, illogical, fear-mongering, factually false, lick-spittle tirade that serves their agenda. Ad nauseum.

Honestly, were it not for Rantburg and its like, which have taken the place of the Letters To The Editor page and provided an outlet for discourse, I believe we would already be in the throes, maybe sporadic - maybe in earnest, of a Second Civil War. I would certainly be considering more dire actions than voting the bums out and trying to expose the institutional abuse wherever possible.

So, how do we proceed? Is clear license for sedition, which is surely the question when public officials in positions of trust and sensitivity are intentionally suborned, now to be accepted as the "new" reality?

No. By God, No. Let every elected official - and the unelected, too - in this country be put on notice that we do not accept this, that we have the power as voters, and we will exercise it. Use every means available - email, letters, contributions, button-holing your representatives at their "events", organizations - everything. Make it clear. Make them feel what you feel. Exercise your power. It is about power. We need a solid two-party system to remain healthy. We do not have it. So, we suffer accordingly.

who will wield the power in America? Americans, via the ballot box, or media powers and the other institutional parasites, sycophants, racist triangulators, and Tranzi whores, dragging the clueless and cowardly Democrats along behind?

It is out in the open. Sunshine has begun the disinfection process. They have shot their bolt and we are wounded. But not mortally. Not yet.

My thanks to the many, many thoughtful posters here who have helped me clarify my thoughts by posting theirs. If any fault or criticism is levied against this post, I sense the sinktrap may be close at hand, please let it be clear: my conclusions are my own. Thank you. Again, I apologize for the length, but thinking out loud is the only way for me. :-}

Posted by Glomogum Shogum2997 2006-06-23 13:49|| 2006-06-23 13:49|| Front Page Top

#22 Uhhh... I don't think you're in any danger of being sinktrapped. Excellent rant!

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-06-23 14:24|| 2006-06-23 14:24|| Front Page Top

#23 Well said, Glomogum. Thank you for shining the light of reason.

Posted by Kalle 2006-06-23 14:29|| 2006-06-23 14:29|| Front Page Top

#24 I posted that comment as its own posting under opinion. A great work Glomogum Shogum2997.

Posted by DanNY 2006-06-23 14:37|| 2006-06-23 14:37|| Front Page Top

#25 Glomogum, what do your friends call you, Glom ?
Well, Glom, it's all a matter of left vs. right.
On the left, we have socialists, mostly union types and educators, and communists, mostly ACLU and such. The educators, let's not forget are those who can not do.
Remember the old axium, 'Those who can't, teach; those who can't teach, teach gym.' So, basically, leftists consists mostly of people less inclined to succeed, and more inclined to debate and therefore, criticize the doers.
The right consists mostly of family types and loyal, honest, honorable people. These generally take responsibility for their actions and for the support of themselves and their dependents. They also succeed more frequently, therefore leftists rely upon rightists for necessary support.
Today, the right, or a portion of it has withdrawn support from the leftist media. Today, we on the right have our own media outlets. We should think seriously about withdrawing support from the institutions of higher education, also.
If the universities had to rely on their sucessful alumni, the leftism would decline in those universities. Real successful organizations lean toward the right. Doers, not debaters. The American military is such an organization, that's why we win.
Who do you think will win this struggle ?

Posted by wxjames 2006-06-23 14:52|| 2006-06-23 14:52|| Front Page Top

#26 Dan, you'll never get sink-trapped for ranting!

My take: I borrow from Sun Tzu: never interfere when your enemy is in the midst of destroying himself. The NYT and LAT are on a downward slide. Their reporting is sclerotic, their sense of duty is nil, their lack of patriotism is obvious, and both their circulation numbers and stock prices reflect this.

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2006-06-23 14:56|| 2006-06-23 14:56|| Front Page Top

#27 You didn't advocate vigilantes hunting down politicians and journalists, you didn't screech bigotted insults, you presented us with reasoned thoughts and conclusions, you advocated that we get actively involved in the political process. A good rant, Glomogum Shogum2997. Thank you.

Posted by trailing wife 2006-06-23 15:02|| 2006-06-23 15:02|| Front Page Top

#28 What tw said. Especially ixnay on the ummarysay ootingshay and trajudicialexay sassinationsay alktay, kayoay?

Posted by Seafarious">Seafarious 2006-06-23 15:06|| 2006-06-23 15:06|| Front Page Top

#29 Just one more reason why this voter will see ice hockey televised from Hell before he buys another copy of the NYT. If I saw their entire editorial staff being frogmarched out of the NYT Bldg. and put in Black Marias headed for Gitmo I'd be cheering at the top of my lungs!

Posted by mac 2006-06-23 15:36|| 2006-06-23 15:36|| Front Page Top

#30 "...never interfere when your enemy is in the midst of destroying himself. The NYT and LAT are on a downward slide."

The problem with that is that in this process of sliding downward-- which could go on for years-- the media are nevertheless acting very effectively as enemy agents: spies (by communicating secrets to the enemy), saboteurs (destroying the effectiveness of the programs they are exposing), and propagandists (Abu Ghraib, the Koran Flushing Kerfuffle, etc.).

They are actively working to a) help the enemy escape detection, b) give the enemy hope that we will indeed give up the fight any day now, and c) to get American soldiers-- and someday, perhaps more American civilians-- killed.

I could understand this hands-off approach if the stakes weren't so high; but they are, and this stuff must be stopped. Whatever it takes-- and I mean WHATEVER.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-06-23 15:42|| 2006-06-23 15:42|| Front Page Top

#31 #27 You didn't advocate vigilantes hunting down politicians and journalists, you didn't screech bigotted insults, you presented us with reasoned thoughts and conclusions, you advocated that we get actively involved in the political process. A good rant, Glomogum Shogum2997. Thank you.
Posted by trailing wife 2006-06-23 15:02|| Front Page|| ||Comments Top

Lord of the rest, we beseach you, immediately initiate the bolded. Smite them gravely!

Posted by Besoeker 2006-06-23 15:46|| 2006-06-23 15:46|| Front Page Top

#32 I'm humbled by the response, but not quite speechless. :^) This should cover the missing or unclear parts, I hope.

"Glum B. Determined" might be a more accurate name. I truly fear for my country and our national soul. As I said, I've finally admitted to myself that in my heart I have begun to accept that we will have to fight for our Republic all over again. So I'm no "good guy", I'm afraid.

I believe anyone who's not now infected with the self-congratulatory insanity of the Left and follows the signs must end up at approximately the same place, at least as I define rational analysis. If I thought otherwise, then I would happily say otherwise.

No, I haven't yet decided upon internal warfare, but that is solely because of you good people. Truly, I thank you and Fred for the chance to vent, but more importantly for the chance to hear my fellow citizens opine and critique events. I am no longer alone and I am very grateful.

In all honesty, thank you, Rantburg - and please keep up the good work here. You can bet you often inspire and challenge and make uncomfortable many, many visitors - such as myself - and I believe those are good things. No, check that - they're great things if we are to avoid open warfare. We have to get that 40% of people who lack an internet connection, who haven't yet discovered the concerted duplicity of the media, who simply wonder at the idiocy of Democrats like Dean and Kerry and presume that somehow the Democrats can't really be that nutty, who are so self-absorbed in navel gazing they don't think it matters who's in office - they're all the same, who would help us peacefully squash this outbreak if only they spent a few weeks at the Burg.

Posted by Glomogum Shogum2997 2006-06-23 16:00|| 2006-06-23 16:00|| Front Page Top

#33 Lord, so many comments came in while I was typing. One of them compels me to post one more comment, then I'll STFU until I think I have something illuminating and cogent to say. A rarity for me, I assure you.

Regards the "ixnay" comment, and others like it I've seen posted on occasion - I could not disagree more. What this denies is that we have honestly reached such conclusions. I mean no offense, but this truly bothers me.

This is difficult to put into words, so please bear with me... What it exposes, I believe, since others have gone further in their comments than I see in this thread without the implied censorship threat, is that there is either a standard of clever articulation or some other device that excuses such candid conclusions.

Is it the "rant ... /rant" tags? Or do I need to take some critical thinking and creative writing classes to increase my stealth, should I fall over the edge into sinktrap territory down the road?

Actually, in all honesty, I anticipate this will be the case, though I'm not sure I'll be posting, again. Rantburg's paramount value certainly lies in the reading, not the posting, for me. Again, it took me far too long to say what others regularly say more effectively and economically.

Posted by Glomogum Shogum2997 2006-06-23 16:29|| 2006-06-23 16:29|| Front Page Top

#34 Superbly written piece, Glomogum Shogum2997. However much I may disagree with some of this administration's policies, the issue of how the press routinely compromises national security is a no-brainer.

Absolutely no sitting president should be confronted with this sort of vile treachery, be it from the media, industry or the public itself. I think that much of the public's disregard for this media sedition is due to its nearly overwhelming lack of comprehension with respect to the threat that Islamism poses to all non-Muslims. That we are now half a century removed from our last major conflict (WWII) does not help either.

If Americans continue to countenance this sort of treason by the media, whatever administration that is in place will need to forcibly correct the problem, if solely for the sake of national security. Freedom of the press is a cherished American right, but just because we have a right to do something does not necessarily make it the right thing to do. Somewhere that has been lost.

Posted by Zenster 2006-06-23 16:49|| 2006-06-23 16:49|| Front Page Top

#35 "Regards the "ixnay" comment, and others like it I've seen posted on occasion - I could not disagree more. What this denies is that we have honestly reached such conclusions. I mean no offense, but this truly bothers me."

It does indeed deny it; and I suspect there are a great many of us here who have reached those dire conclusions-- some enthusiastically, but most reluctantly-- and are discomforted by the embargo on expressing those thoughts here, even though we understand full well why Rantburg cannot be allowed to become a place where vigilante action is advocated.

For the life of me, though, I can no longer see any way we can win this war so long as this sort of behavior by the NYT-- and the rest of the MSM-- is allowed to continue.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-06-23 17:06|| 2006-06-23 17:06|| Front Page Top

#36 I understand the alarm and dismay over the MSM and the feeling of frustration over how it never seems to improve, even after repeated exposures of duplicity, treachery, innaccuracy and all the rest. But I agree with Steve White's comment and think that patience - combined with vigilance, of course - will win out for us in the end. One analogy might be the Iron Curtain. In 1985, it didn't seem apparent that it was all about to crumble. Sure, everyone knew that the system couldn't sustain itself in the long run, but who could see how quickly and completely it would unravel once it started? In this analogy, Rantburg and similarly minded news sites and blogs might be somewhat akin to the Solidarity movement. I think that the MSM are going to reach a tipping point where their behavior is so outrageous that even the fence-sitters will say enough is enough - and then the MSM won't be able to put Humpty Dumpty back together again. We're facing some tough challenges here, but we've faced others just as tough in our history and won. We know that what we are fighting for is worth it and that is an advantage not to be underestimated. I think that when the right time comes, we will know what to do and that we'll get it done. If people like Solzhenitsyn and Václav Havel could maintain control over their despair while steadily, patiently fighting oppression, then we have to be willing to do the same.

Also, GS2997, although I share your view that, on most topics, I'd rather read what many of the knowledgeable, articulate, and witty people here post than write much myself - I do hope you post again when you feel passionately about something, because the results are well worth reading and thinking about. And hopefully some of the responses will make you feel better, or at least help you see the issue more clearly.

Posted by ryuge 2006-06-23 18:17|| 2006-06-23 18:17|| Front Page Top

#37 Honestly...one of the better threads I have read on Rantburg lately....and that is saying a lot. I believe Steve is right...quoting Sun Tzu...that they (NYTLATAPREUTERS) have sown the seeds of their own destruction; and the best action is to watch them fall on their own knife.

The pity is that they view themselves as defenders of freedom, and the 1st Amendment. They abuse that freedom, and put those that are the REAL defenders of the 1st amendment (in Iraq and Afghanistan) in harms way. May they rot in Hell with Zarqawi and his 72 Helen Thomas's.

Posted by anymouse">anymouse 2006-06-23 18:32|| 2006-06-23 18:32|| Front Page Top

#38 : I'm humbled by the response, but not quite speechless

Him channeling Hubert Humphery. :>

Posted by 6 2006-06-23 18:48|| 2006-06-23 18:48|| Front Page Top

#39 On the ixnay issue, let me reiterate (gently) why we have the ixnay in place --

-- we don't want the Burg shut down, and none of us moderators want to do a perp walk.

It's really that simple. Advocating the deaths of certain American citizens (even if said citizens are correctly held to be scum-sucking bottom feeding treasonous leeches, or even worse, journalists) potentially gets us into trouble. However satisfying it might be to vent about this, it's something we can't allow.

So the mods are agreed that we will redact such statements and try to warn people. It's precisely why we (well, Fred) created the 'redact' button, so that we could dump the comment without dumping the commenter.

Thanks for your understanding. AoS.

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2006-06-23 18:53|| 2006-06-23 18:53|| Front Page Top

#40 Another note, these types of comments happen a lot more when something truly egregious happens in the news. The last time we had this issue, it was the Danish Cartoonifada, when embassies were burning. This time it's the horrific deaths of those two fine young soldiers.

Posted by Seafarious">Seafarious 2006-06-23 20:01|| 2006-06-23 20:01|| Front Page Top

#41 Incredibly well written words by all...Glomo nailed it quite well. May the rest of the 95 theses be nailed to the NYT front door.

Posted by Inspector Clueso 2006-06-23 20:05|| 2006-06-23 20:05|| Front Page Top

#42 Ace of Spades HQ nails it:

"The left continues to undermine national security in the most despicable, cynical way. I'm quite sure the reasonable liberals at the NYT and WaPo know full well that programs like this are absolutely vital, and their secrecy is likewise vital. However, they have made the most anti-American and evil sort of decision: While tools like this are vital for saving American lives, they will not permit any Republican President to use them. Only Democratic Presidents are permitted to employ the full panoply of powers for protecting American lives.

It's blackmail, pure and simple. Either let a Democrat into the White House, or we will continue to sabotage American security and, in effect, kill Americans. We will keep secrets when a Democrat is in office, but not a Republican. So we offer the American people a choice: Let the politicians we favor run the country, or we will help Al Qaeda murder you."

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-06-23 20:52|| 2006-06-23 20:52|| Front Page Top

#43 Bottom line for me from inside the area of no comment:

We MUST find, prosecute and jail for life these peopel whoa re breaking thier oaths and leaking to the press, regardless of how we handle the press. And if the press, when called as witnesses, refuse to divulge their source, then they can and should be jailed as accessories to a felony.

We must stop the leaks - and that means jailing the leakers.

Posted by Oldspook 2006-06-23 20:52|| 2006-06-23 20:52|| Front Page Top

#44 I like Aces' suggestion to ban the NYT from all Gov't functions and news conferences AND hunt down the leakers

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-06-23 20:57|| 2006-06-23 20:57|| Front Page Top

#45 I'm for outright prosecution of all involved, and for seeking the harshest penalties available-- including death.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-06-23 21:09|| 2006-06-23 21:09|| Front Page Top

#46 DD - always trying to soft sell and "get along go along". P*ssy :-)

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-06-23 21:25|| 2006-06-23 21:25|| Front Page Top

#47 Honestly...one of the better threads I have read on Rantburg lately....and that is saying a lot.

My feelings as well. This thread is a fine example of what makes Rantburg the bastion of free speech that it is. My thanks to Fred Pruitt and all of the moderating crew here. Just a few years ago I might have much more easily swallowed the poison being spewed by the MSM. Even back then I was somewhat circumspect regarding reported news but I still have to thank Rantburg for illuminating just how distorted so much of modern reportage is. Again, my deep thanks to all of you who make this place possible.

PS: GS2997, you really should post here more often. You have an great writing style and obviously work from an informed position. I'm confident many others here feel as I do. Regardless, keep fighting the good fight.

Posted by Zenster 2006-06-23 21:33|| 2006-06-23 21:33|| Front Page Top

#48 You really know how to hurt a guy, Frank...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-06-23 21:41|| 2006-06-23 21:41|| Front Page Top

#49 Let the politicians we favor run the country, or we will help Al Qaeda murder you."

No shit. Another reminder of my head having the same properties as an anvil. That is so obvious it hurts my head to think I didn't see it so simply before.

Posted by JerseyMike 2006-06-23 22:00|| 2006-06-23 22:00|| Front Page Top

#50 no offense meant :-)

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-06-23 22:00|| 2006-06-23 22:00|| Front Page Top

#51 I'm kidding, Frank... :)

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-06-23 22:02|| 2006-06-23 22:02|| Front Page Top

#52 Heather MacDonald, of City Journal, has a good post on this at the Daily Standard: Undeniable.

I'm beginning to wonder if the NYT hasn't maybe crossed a line in the sand with this latest caper...

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D. 2006-06-23 22:08|| 2006-06-23 22:08|| Front Page Top

#53 No line in the sand - its a line in the friggen concrete. Its that plain, that obvious, and that much right vs wrong.

Posted by Oldspook 2006-06-23 22:38|| 2006-06-23 22:38|| Front Page Top

#54 Lock'em up.

Posted by Gromosh Elminegum5705 2006-06-23 22:41|| 2006-06-23 22:41|| Front Page Top

#55 Weblogs are the new Committees of Correspondence. They serve the purpose of debunking the propaganda and lies that are foisted upon the American people and the world. Like the colonial committees, which were set up for specific purposes, our weblogs tend to focus on specific areas. Being outside the control of those 'elites' who would have us believe everything they utter, they allow ordinary people to contribute, according to their talents, whatever insight, experience or knowledge they have. We have witnessed their ability to harness resources above and beyond those of media and government.

I hope to write much more on this in the near future, but for now be aware that we are all on the front lines. There are no rear areas in this struggle.

Posted by DanNY 2006-06-23 22:53|| 2006-06-23 22:53|| Front Page Top

#56 I was too ...

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2006-06-23 23:29|| 2006-06-23 23:29|| Front Page Top

#57 Hear, hear to ALL of the above...fine ranting. I believe GS truly sums up what we all feel. Me? I've tried to run from my "redneck" upbringing and be "civilized, nice, etc." My gloves are starting to come off in this arena. We (by that, I mean ALL Americans) were smacked hard on 9/11. And, now just a short 5 years later, our "leading" press/papers are OPENLY advocating for the enemy. I've GOT to believe the "Average American" out there sees through this horse-hockey and there IS a feeling in the air of an eventual internal showdown. Like some historian said, "Great civilizations (including Rome, Greece, etc.) don't die for external attacks, generally, but from internal subversion." We have a 2-front war going on: (1) against the jihadis, who would like to take us down quickly, and (2) against the LLL, who would like to take us down quickly, too, but seem to have the "patience" to try and outlast us, the AVERAGE Americans.

And I second GS's thanks to Fred et al. I, too, applaud you, gentlemen, for this arena to vent in. Unfortunately, I see bad news on the horizon, as in eventually, we may very well have a second Civil War (internal), but fine arenas like the 'burg here, help us to vent some steam, as well as make it appearant that we're not alone, and the average citizen may not be as moonbatty as the MSM portrays us to be. HEAR, HEAR!

Posted by BA 2006-06-23 23:57|| 2006-06-23 23:57|| Front Page Top

23:57 BA
23:29 Frank G
23:28 JustAboutEnough
23:26 JustAboutEnough
23:23 Zenster
23:20 JosephMendiola
23:16 Zenster
23:15 Alaska Paul
23:03 trailing wife
22:53 DanNY
22:52 mojo
22:51 Sherry
22:44 GORT
22:41 Gromosh Elminegum5705
22:39 Zenster
22:38 Oldspook
22:34 Crath Choger3081
22:34 JosephMendiola
22:34 Frank G
22:32 Zenster
22:29 Zenster
22:29 phil_b
22:26 Eric Jablow
22:25 Zenster