Article

2005-08-17 Europe

Cabin staff struggled to control crash plane

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Posted by Steve 2005-08-17 12:10|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 "tripped", is that Greek for "beaten"?

From yesterday (scroll down for picture): one nasty cut over the eye, otherwise undamaged. Might've tripped while his hands were cuffed behind him.

Posted by Angie Schultz 2005-08-17 13:03|| http://darkblogules.blogspot.com]">[http://darkblogules.blogspot.com] 2005-08-17 13:03|| Front Page Top

#2 We are to believe that the plane is set up so that the cock-pit will run out of oxygen before the cabin?

Soooo...the newly-trained pilot standing in as cabin crew (AND his stewardess girlfriend) can move freely about even after the pilots have conked out AND they don't know how to make a mayday call or turn off the auto pilot. yeah right.

So exactly where did this "newly trained pilot" get his flight training?

Posted by 2b 2005-08-17 13:03|| 2005-08-17 13:03|| Front Page Top

#3 Dang, hit "submit" too soon. I wonder how long all this went on? Some folks here were saying cabin oxygen is only meant to last for a few minutes, but this plane was acting suspiciously for two hours.

This just in: Hoax Boy gets six months, suspended. Also, co-pilot's son says his father always kept diaries of his flights, and : "He told me that if his diary was published then the company would close."

Posted by Angie Schultz 2005-08-17 13:10|| http://darkblogules.blogspot.com]">[http://darkblogules.blogspot.com] 2005-08-17 13:10|| Front Page Top

#4 2b: that's an interesting analysis. Hmmm.

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2005-08-17 14:44|| 2005-08-17 14:44|| Front Page Top

#5 There are two problems with this scenario (apart from the lack of radio communication). One is, if the plane decompressed, then after 2 hours everyone without access to oxygen should be dead, yet every person autopsied so far was alive. The other is, the timeline for the attendants trying to gain control of the plane is wrong. They were observed at least an hour after whatever event occured. What were they doing for that time and why weren't they incapacitated? Occam's Razor still says an attempted terrorist hijacking.

Posted by phil_b 2005-08-17 14:47|| 2005-08-17 14:47|| Front Page Top

#6 OK, so the autopilot's flying the plane to Athens, cruising along at 35000 feet. The plane gets to Athens, but no one turns off the autopilot. What happens?

1) It just keeps going on the same heading.
2) It circles at 35000 until it gets new instructions.
3) It descends to mountain height and circles until it gets new instructions.

See, 'cause I can't figure out how a plane under autopilot at 35000 feet is going to crash into a mountain, given that there are no 35000 ft mountains. Someone suggested that it circled until it ran out of fuel, but the plane crashed minutes before it was due to land in Athens. It must have had enough fuel to reach Athens; that was the first stop.

So the only way it could crash, assuming it was still obeying the autopilot, was if the autopilot was programmed to descend to 7000, or wherever the mountains are. That seems kinda dodgy to me, but I don't know how autopilots work. Maybe I'm missing something.

Posted by Angie Schultz 2005-08-17 15:34|| http://darkblogules.blogspot.com]">[http://darkblogules.blogspot.com] 2005-08-17 15:34|| Front Page Top

#7 Force transducers in either contol yoke would have kicked off the autopilot had someone moved them. The flight management system system feeds the autopilot lateral and vertical nav info that was programed by the crew during preflight. So the aircraft would have continued on its own until it reached the last programed waypoint.

Posted by tzsenator 2005-08-17 15:49|| 2005-08-17 15:49|| Front Page Top

#8 Are you saying that moving the control column will disengage the autopilot? If so (and I have sat next to the pilot on a number of occasions and I recall it is that simple), then why did it apparently stay on autopilot for so long, with people in the cockpit trying to 'control' the aircraft? And I wonder what those toxicology reports say?

Posted by phil_b 2005-08-17 16:28|| 2005-08-17 16:28|| Front Page Top

#9 From my analysis, the pilot(s) were killed by the "newly-trained" pilot and stewardess, the passengers rendered unconscious by the ~~oxygen~~ gas and the Greek Air Force saw the threat of a suicide pilot had no choice but to shoot it down.

Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-17 16:55|| 2005-08-17 16:55|| Front Page Top

#10 The crew O2 system is independent of the passenger system. 2 high pressure cylinders supply the pilots while the passengers rely on oxygen candles in the event of a decompression at altitude. A cabin pressure switch deploys the masks when cabin altitude exceeds limits. Extending the mask to its full extent pulls a lanyard, firing a precussion cap and igniting the O2 generator. This makes it virtualy impossible to poison the passengers with supplemental O2.

Posted by tzsenator 2005-08-17 17:24|| 2005-08-17 17:24|| Front Page Top

#11 Well, here's more:

The F-16 pilots reported seeing someone in the cockpit -- probably a man -- take control of the plane as [it] flew in a gradually descending holding pattern, apparently on autopilot, at about 37,000 feet near Athens airport.

That person then banked the plane away from Athens, lowering it first to 2,000 feet and then climbing back up to 7,000 feet before the plane apparently ran out of fuel and crashed, state-run NET television reported, quoting unnamed Defense Ministry sources.

See my comment above regarding fuel.

Posted by Angie Schultz 2005-08-17 17:36|| http://darkblogules.blogspot.com]">[http://darkblogules.blogspot.com] 2005-08-17 17:36|| Front Page Top

#12 Damn, this thing just gets weirder and weirder.

Posted by Laurence of the Rats">Laurence of the Rats 2005-08-17 17:48|| http://www.punictreachery.com/]">[http://www.punictreachery.com/] 2005-08-17 17:48|| Front Page Top

#13 tz,

I agree with your statement about O2 distribution. But, I'm thinking something more sinister. What if the O2 canister for the passengers was replaced on the ground with a diffrent mixture? Afterall, were are talking about Cyprus here. Anything can be bought for money.

Angie,

I don't buy the "fuel running out" story. This is Defense Ministry spin. It's a relatively short distance from Cyprus to Greece. I believe it was shot down, until I hear convincing proof otherwise.

Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-17 18:02|| 2005-08-17 18:02|| Front Page Top

#14 Each seat has it's own O2 generator about the size of a Coke can. Replacing 130+ of them would be a time consuming and highly technical task.

Posted by tzsenator 2005-08-17 18:09|| 2005-08-17 18:09|| Front Page Top

#15 tz,

Got it.

Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-17 18:11|| 2005-08-17 18:11|| Front Page Top

#16 For those who just can't get enough of this story, here's the PPruNe (Professional Pilots' Rumor Network) page. Latest information is at the bottom, so you'll want to go to the last page (currently 34!). They point to this article from Der Spiegel, which I can't read (Babelfish is just terrible for German), but apparently there's mention of someone trying to gain control of the aircraft, and a piccy of the flight attendant couple.

Posted by Angie Schultz 2005-08-17 18:37|| http://darkblogules.blogspot.com]">[http://darkblogules.blogspot.com] 2005-08-17 18:37|| Front Page Top

#17 Angie,

As tz has mentioned the O2 for all the passengers can't be replaced, but do you think it was shot down?

Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-17 18:47|| 2005-08-17 18:47|| Front Page Top

#18 ...do you think it was shot down?

What I think changes as info comes in. There'll be more still.

Posted by Angie Schultz 2005-08-17 18:57|| http://darkblogules.blogspot.com]">[http://darkblogules.blogspot.com] 2005-08-17 18:57|| Front Page Top

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