Article

2005-07-17 Caribbean-Latin America

Mexico's help with terrorists? Not unless U.S. enacts reforms

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Steve White 2005-07-17 00:14|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Time to end NAFTA as it currently stands.

Posted by Phil Fraering 2005-07-17 00:48|| http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]">[http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com] 2005-07-17 00:48|| Front Page Top

#2 How about we annex a 1-mile wide strip all along the border (either side, I'm not picky), build a fence at the the north and south edges, and install automatic weapons that fire at anthing their IR sensors pick up every 50 feet or so? I reckon that would greatly reduce our "immigration" problem.

Posted by AzCat 2005-07-17 00:57|| 2005-07-17 00:57|| Front Page Top

#3 "there can be no cooperation [from the Mexican government] without some sort of immigration reform package."

All right, here's an appropriate immigration reform package: Every single Mexican illegal caught on U.S. soil, regardless of how long they have been here, will be deported, along with their immediate families no questions asked, regardless of birthplace, and all property they have come into ownership of will be confiscated and sold off. No hearings, no appeals, no court challenges. Workplaces will be raided, home improvement store parking lots will be raided, and known Mexican illegal hangouts will be raided. The border with Mexico will be promptly sealed off, and anyone attempting to cross without official approval is subject to being met with deadly force. Remittances to Mexico from legal residents will have imposed on them a surcharge of 10%. Proceeds from the selling off of property/possessions and the remittance surcharge help pay for the new "reforms".

So, Jorge, any questions?

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2005-07-17 04:29|| 2005-07-17 04:29|| Front Page Top

#4 Let's add to that a little, BaR: ALL illegals who arrive(d) in this country by crossing our southern border will be returned to Mexico, along with their families, etc. Mexico has abetted the porousity of our border, let them bear the entire cost of the burden they created.

Posted by trailing wife 2005-07-17 07:45|| 2005-07-17 07:45|| Front Page Top

#5 "No border security is possible without Mexican cooperation"
Incorrect statement number one

and "there can be no cooperation [from the Mexican government] without some sort of immigration reform package."
Incorrect statement number two

next?

Posted by 2b 2005-07-17 08:10|| 2005-07-17 08:10|| Front Page Top

#6 Or, we finish what we started in 1848 and just annex Mexico. Then they'll need no foreign ministers. They and their ultra corrupt fellow politicians will be moved to suitable locations for final determination. A cell suitably furnished like Saddam's. Meanwhile the economy of Mexico will be set up to actually grow without the blood sucking kleptocrats who maintain power by driving their own impoverish citizens out of the county just seeking to make a living.
On the other hand, just one terrorist act this side of the border traced to Mexico and the border gets shut tight, both ways. Tourist industry kiss your ass good bye. Whatcha going to do with all those unemployed and no structural ability to really reform your xenophobic Mexican constitution and economy? Via and Zapata knew. Couldn't happen to nicer people.

Posted by Angolulet Chairt8771 2005-07-17 09:02|| 2005-07-17 09:02|| Front Page Top

#7 This does sound like a particularly stupid piece of rhetoric.

I can see why people are pissed off in this post!

Posted by Tony (UK) 2005-07-17 09:40|| 2005-07-17 09:40|| Front Page Top

#8 Tony - you don't know the half of it...

close the border- raid the employers. Feds? Do your f&^king jobs!

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-07-17 09:51|| 2005-07-17 09:51|| Front Page Top

#9 We could take a page from China:

"You'll miss Mexico City more than we'll miss your illegals."

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-07-17 09:51|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-07-17 09:51|| Front Page Top

#10 Bomb! I agree with you all the way. Give the illeagls 6 months to clear out and then start.

Also send those who knowingly hire illegals (all the way up to CEOs) and those officals of local governments who knowingly aid them (with sainctuary laws) to Mexico as well.

Seal the border and drop NAFTA. This guy has just declared that mexico is *not* or ally (but then most of us already knew that).

Posted by CrazyFool 2005-07-17 09:51|| 2005-07-17 09:51|| Front Page Top

#11 "I can see why people are pissed off in this post!"

Tony, it's like Frank said: that ain't the half of it. People here are becoming more and more dissatisfied over a growing list of issues that aren't being dealt with in ways that make any apparent sense.

Our borders with Mexico and Canada leak like sieves-- so much so, that for all practical purposes they may as well not exist. Why? WHY???? Is there some damn reason, for cryin' out loud, why we're not making even a small effort to control the flood tide of illegals crossing into this country? If there is, I'd like to hear it; but all we get from the Administration is silence-- and platitudes.

We've known since Day One-- September 11, 2001-- that Saudi Arabia is the premier source of the Islamic extremism we're fighting. Fifteen of the nineteen hijackers were Saudis. The Saudis fund the mosques and madrassas where that shit breeds, and as far as I can see, absolutely nothing is being done to shut them down. Hell, even the Dutch are doing more than we are. Why? WHY????

Furthermore, we've got nearly a sixth of a million U.S. troops stationed in Iraq, armed to the teeth with the world's deadliest weapons, right smack-dab next door to Saudi Arabia. I had expected-- and hoped-- that part of the reason those troops were sent over there was to start making life very, VERY uncomfortable for the Forces of Evil. But what do we get? Pictures of Abdullah and Bush holding hands (yechhh!) at the ranch in Crawford. Why? WHY????

For that matter, why is the Baathist regime in Syria still standing?

And why, oh WHY, are the Mad Mullahs still running things in Iran??? What the fuck are we doing???

(OK, that's enough for now; don't want to emulate Howard Beale...)

And that's just for starters.

Posted by Dave D. 2005-07-17 10:46|| 2005-07-17 10:46|| Front Page Top

#12 On Tuesday, former Mexican Foreign Minister Jorge Castaneda told a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing: "No border security is possible without Mexican cooperation" and "there can be no cooperation [from the Mexican government] without some sort of immigration reform package."

I strongly urge Senor Casteneda to commune with the shade of Black Jack Pershing on that subject.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2005-07-17 11:01|| 2005-07-17 11:01|| Front Page Top

#13 Dave D - Better now? Lol! Fine rant, hitting those high spots - the ones rubbed raw.

I also want to thank the Moonbat Jorge Castaneda. As with his ilk, the patriotic residents of Moonbatia, he is so self-absorbed that he doesn't realize that the mere act of opening his mouth serves the forces of reason, not his own. This arrogance is characterized best as a permanent case of foot-in-mouth. The gift that keeps on giving.

While our elected representatives, top to bottom, seek cover from addressing this issue, the Moonbatia spokespeople blithely and impulsively strip it away - and keep the issue front and center. Thanks, morons, mucho apreciÃ³!

Posted by .com 2005-07-17 11:08|| 2005-07-17 11:08|| Front Page Top

#14 On to a more practical solution. The problem here is that the US government is trying to deal with the Mexican government. That will never work with *anything*. A better alternative would be to *pay* Mexicans for fingering non-Hispanic illegals. From $50 to $50,000, we can afford to be extra generous. Of course, NONE OF THIS COULD WORK UNLESS THE INS ACTUALLY KEEPS THE NON-HISPANICS THEY CATCH!!! Gaa. "Catch and release" has got to be the STUPIDEST idea I've heard in a dozen years. Why the HELL can't they put them in tent cities, like Sheriff Joe Arpaio does up in Maricopa County?

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-07-17 11:22|| 2005-07-17 11:22|| Front Page Top

#15 "Why the HELL can't they put them in tent cities, like Sheriff Joe Arpaio does up in Maricopa County?"

I've wondered that, myself, but I realized that, at the rate they're coming, we'd have the world's largest internment camp in fairly short order. We don't want them in either case, illegals getting through or as prisoners. Catch and release is, indeed, stupid, but so is any other measure that doesn't simply stop them cold, utterly preventing them from crossing illegally.

Gonna have to wall it off - and I mean a wall that can't be climbed or cut through or breached by anything less than a major military operation.

Same up North, too.

The Friendship Fences. Catchy.

Then comes beefed up maritime interdiction, since the land border manpower requirements will plummet and they'll be forced to take to the water.

Posted by .com 2005-07-17 11:34|| 2005-07-17 11:34|| Front Page Top

#16 Of course some will argue tunneling and air. The first is not difficult to prevent if sensors are put in place - breaches are easily detected, Israel managed it when they gave back the Sinai and created a new southern line of defense in the Negev - with sound and IR sensors - and the second is easy to prevent if the radar surveillance gaps are filled - such as with the static balloons already proposed.

Posted by .com 2005-07-17 11:40|| 2005-07-17 11:40|| Front Page Top

#17 Catch them throw them in detention camps (without AC). Size their assets (to pay for the internment / deportment) and ship them back.

And close the farking border.

Posted by CrazyFool 2005-07-17 11:40|| 2005-07-17 11:40|| Front Page Top

#18 Assets? What assets? Why do you think they're coming here?

Or do you mean the Mexican Govt's assets?

Heh. Now you're talking...

Posted by .com 2005-07-17 11:44|| 2005-07-17 11:44|| Front Page Top

#19 Ok, stepping up to the crease here (cricketing term! :) to put a slightly different perspective on this. I may well get some things wrong here, so bear with me...

Look at it from the PoV of supply and demand: there is a constant supply of illegals because there is a constant demand for their labour. Kill the demand, and although you'll not kill the supply, it will certainly diminish. Kill the demand by punitively fining companies that hire illegals.

That won't stop the flood, but it may turn it into a trickle - then look at the ideas put forward by Phil and Azcat, after all, Mexico is really taking the piss regarding NAFTA.

As for the situation with the Saudis Dave, I just am at a loss there - a few years or so back, when .com first announced his 40km of 'Republic of Eastern Arabia' solution, I though 'yup, gonna happen', then it was 'hmmm, could happen', then 'nope, not gonna happen'. I like to think that when GW has holding Abdullahs hand he was saying something like 'this is just for the cameras asswipe, just remember about those D5's targetted on Mecca and Medina...', but that's just me I guess.

Posted by Tony (UK) 2005-07-17 12:16|| 2005-07-17 12:16|| Front Page Top

#20 Everytime a Mexican "diplomat" tries to interfere in US politics -- say, by showing up at some meeting on the question of what to do about illegal immigration -- PNG their asses.

I'm sick of us acting like the rest of the world has a right to tell us how to live.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-07-17 12:19|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-07-17 12:19|| Front Page Top

#21 The demand is for a supply of nearly slave labor who will work for much less then mimimum wage. This way the elite can ~~exploit~~ hire illegals to babysit their spawn, do their yardwork, etc... However we can lower the demand by enforcing the existing laws against employing illegals....

Good point about the lack of assets. Perhaps we need to size some of the assets of those who employ or support the illegals? Do you think Walmart will hire illegals if they may face a few million-dollar fine or if the CEO will be found personally financially responsible for the deportion of those illegals found as his employees?

Posted by CrazyFool 2005-07-17 12:26|| 2005-07-17 12:26|| Front Page Top

#22 Mexico wants to play games, seal the border. We can't trust on their help we have to make sure ourselves. If that leads to an economic crisis and revolution in Mexico so be it.

Posted by rjschwarz 2005-07-17 12:38|| 2005-07-17 12:38|| Front Page Top

#23 Tony, the problem is not a lack of means: it is a complete, utter lack of will. I can only surmise that too many people are making far too much money off the enormous influx of dirt-cheap labor, for there to be any political will to solve the problem.

If we wanted to shut down this Mexican civilian invasion, we could: what you suggested-- punitively fining companies that hire illegals-- is but one solution among many. Imprisoning the executives of those companies is another. Cutting off Federal funds to states that allow illegals to collect welfare is another, and the list could go on and on. And in the extreme, we could always station troops on the border with orders to shoot to kill-- and let the corpses rot in the desert sun.

So it's not a lack of means-- it's a lack of will.

"I like to think that when GW has holding Abdullahs hand he was saying something like 'this is just for the cameras asswipe, just remember about those D5's targetted on Mecca and Medina...', but that's just me I guess."

The time has long, long passed when I could console myself with such fantasies. I have seen absolutely zero evidence that we're doing anything whatsoever about Saudi Arabia-- anything at all.

Last year I donated the maximum allowed by law-- $2,000-- to Bush's re-election campaign, as well as $250 to the Swiftboat Vets and another $500 to John Thune's senate campaign (to get rid of that treasonous little prick Tom Daschle). At the time, I would have done anything to ensure Bush's re-election because I was convinced our nation's survival depended on it.

Anymore, though, I sometimes wondered why the hell I even bothered to vote.

Posted by Dave D. 2005-07-17 12:45|| 2005-07-17 12:45|| Front Page Top

#24 Tony(UK) et al, excellent points. Crafting a law that would target top-down, CEO's and Boards of Directors (heh, free-riding scum is another term that fits), would certainly have a major impact.

Observations:

But that begs the question and illuminates the problem: The US Congress. They are the problem, essentially, because they lack the backbone to do what needs to be done. I've heard the Bush-bashing, as if he's the only one at fault, yet he has hired trainloads of new Border Control agents - and he knows there is not the political will behind this, yet. So he's only acting half-assed... but he's doing more than 98% of the Congress.

The INS suffers from the holdover Moonbats of Camelot-II that refuse to actually do their jobs and bitch about the Minutemen, instead - these are also real culprits here. Same as in most of our other Govt Agencies and institutions.

Re: Congress - If people would stop re-electing assholes and think bigger, about America, not just about the pork he/she brings home, then we could solve many problems. Our political system has a chronic disease:
What have you done for me lately? / What have you done for me lately?

That's us, folks, sending the same lame spineless hacks back over and over again.

Our indigenous Moonbats explain part of their voter support - but only part. The rest is up to us. Throw the losers out. Make it a priority to do to these losers what was done to Daschle, wherever possible. Sure, the Pelosis are "safe", but if we weed out every vulnerable fuckwit, things will indeed get better.

Just some thoughts to round out the picture.

Posted by .com 2005-07-17 12:46|| 2005-07-17 12:46|| Front Page Top

#25 Overlapped with you, Dave.

Posted by .com 2005-07-17 12:49|| 2005-07-17 12:49|| Front Page Top

#26 Seriously, I think that this particular statement needs a response.

Close the border for ONE week. SERIOUSLY. Deploy whatever military assets are needed.

IF anyone tries to cross... _especially_ if they're just some poor schmuck trying to get by...
we deport them. By airplane. To the Mexican border with Honduras.

Give them a nice in-flight meal on their way, and tell them they'll be allowed to make a living again, with the chance that their children won't be hungry, when the High and Mighty like Jorge Castaneda stop picking a fight with the US on their behalf.

Illegal immigration to the US is big business in Mexico. We've got to make damn clear that they just broke their goddamn dinner plate.

Posted by Phil Fraering 2005-07-17 13:13|| http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]">[http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com] 2005-07-17 13:13|| Front Page Top

#27 Great comments, people! Dave D's rant probably speaks for us all in terms of frustration at the obvious lack of will and focus in dealing with illegals. It is apparent that enough interests across party lines benefit by having illegals streaming into this country, so nothing will be done by Congress or the President. The kicker is here that if some incident happens that is really serious and horrific, and is shown to be tied to this benign neglect of our laws by the President and/or Congress. the administration would fall. The consequences would then surely outweigh the political gain of ignoring the illegal problem.

Hey, remember some time ago that I wrote the letter to Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski about John Bolton and illegals? Well, I got a reply. I will skip the Bolton part, but the reply on the illegals part is that she voted on getting more Border Patrol agents. That was about it.

The comment on the lack of will is right friggin on. The only way that the problem will be solved and our survival as a nation has a chance is for the people to assert their will. Congressmen (especially Republicans) that take strong stands against illegal aliens are treated like lepers by the Administration. The Minutemen are a start. There needs to be some serious housecleaning. And the gov't types do not know how to use a broom.

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2005-07-17 13:51|| 2005-07-17 13:51|| Front Page Top

#28 The former Mexican Foreign Minister Jorge Castaneda is a regular contributor to the editorial pages of thw LA Times, as PD said he is a Moonbat of Moonbats.

I too am fed up, when I have to fight my way through The grocery store checkout, WalMart, Kmart and the liquor store through the herds of them somethings, it's totally, and completely, totally fucked. This isn't some racist rant, between 20 of them there isn't one word of english spoken, they are illegals not Californians. They are totally below the radar of these GD politicans, they never see them where they go, they never see them where these millionares hang out are, These elites make sure they have their vision tuned so Mexicans are invisible to them. These mojados are taking skilled jobs that US citizens will do. How about oilfield construction? Thats not unskilled labor, I can name plenty more. This invasion is willfully aided by these politicians. What Carl Rove said to some reporter is more pressing to the news media (guess who watches their kids and cleans their house) than a invasion of our country. (Look a Wookie!)

We have the means to stop this, what is lacked is a political will on the parts of the elites. Guess who is getting screwed again by whom? Yea SOSDD.

Posted by Sock Puppet 0â Doom 2005-07-17 13:52|| 2005-07-17 13:52|| Front Page Top

#29 Sill, better SpangLish than Arabic No?

Posted by Shipman 2005-07-17 14:50|| 2005-07-17 14:50|| Front Page Top

#30 Often itn comes down to..... how many kidz ya got? I've 2.... less than minimual replace rate....

Posted by Shipman 2005-07-17 14:51|| 2005-07-17 14:51|| Front Page Top

#31 I too am fed up, when I have to fight my way through The grocery store checkout, WalMart, Kmart and the liquor store through the herds of them somethings, it's totally, and completely, totally fucked.

When it's becoming a law-and-order problem in rural Indiana, it's gone beyond fucked.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-07-17 15:54|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-07-17 15:54|| Front Page Top

#32 "When it's becoming a law-and-order problem in rural Indiana, it's gone beyond fucked."

Yup, they're hosing the Heartland.

A friend in Iowa tells me that much of Marshalltown (small city in the middle of the state) is a no-go area at night because of Hispanic gangs. So are parts of Des Moines. Large hog farms, and meat-packing plants, bring in the Mexican illegals for the cheap labor-- and the citizenry ends up bearing the crushing burden of social services and law enforcement.

Posted by Dave D. 2005-07-17 16:02|| 2005-07-17 16:02|| Front Page Top

#33 Yes we need to close the border. Lots of great comments here.
punitively fining companies that hire illegals-- is but one solution among many. Imprisoning the executives of those companies is another. Cutting off Federal funds to states that allow illegals to collect welfare is another. Nice comment Dave D.
We need to enforce these principles. This has been ongoing, but now with the threat of OTM's crossing our borders it's escalated the need to act now, and not be so passive.
Tancredo has been fighting the fight here in Colorado, and surprisingly it seems like an uphill battle. That if you harbor these views, you're "politcally incorrect".
These illegals are very nice people often times when face to face with them. I would like to see them come in the legal way though, have we forgotten that route?

Posted by Jan 2005-07-17 16:15|| 2005-07-17 16:15|| Front Page Top

#34 Yeah, Tancredo's trying; but I'm not surprized that it's an uphill battle. I think we've got a "perfect storm" here-- a fatal synergy between politically-correct, multi-culti, anything-goes hyper-tolerance on the one hand, and sheer, naked corporate greed on the other.

And if we're not careful, it's gonna kill us.

Posted by Dave D. 2005-07-17 16:26|| 2005-07-17 16:26|| Front Page Top

#35 RICO the executives of any company employing illegals. Its one thing to take a company to court, it's another when you take everything the suits own and then wait for them to process to get it back. That will tighten the noose faster than any other action and you don't need more legislation or personnel on the border. Pour encourager les autres.

Posted by Hupath Shesh1516 2005-07-17 16:31|| 2005-07-17 16:31|| Front Page Top

#36 kinda reminds me of apologizing instead of asking permission

Posted by Jan 2005-07-17 16:57|| 2005-07-17 16:57|| Front Page Top

#37 The demand is for a supply of nearly slave labor who will work for much less then minimum wage.

That's not exactly the bulk of the issue. Litigation, workman's comp, minimum wage, taxation, etc., etc., etc. The regulatory and direct & indirect financial burdens imposed on businesses in the United States by the multilayer federal / state / local regulatory state are simply more than many businesses can bear. Since those costs cannot be cut businesses cut corners where they can and often the biggest line-item on the budget is labor.

The net effect is that as the burdens imposed on business by government escalate an ever-larger portion of our economy is forced underground (hires illegal labor, does strictly off-the-books cash business, etc.) or offshore. Globalization and competition from low or no-duty imported goods increases the pace of process. As more businesses fall off the tax roles larger burdens are levied on those who remain and the cost of compliance with ever-increasing regulation being the final quantum that eventually drives businesses underground or offshore.

Think about it: Youâre a farmer in Californiaâs central valley. You own a bit of land thatâs been in the family for over a century from which youâve (barely) been able to eke out a living. Every year your taxes ratchet up. Every year the nanny-state heaps more costly regulations on you. Every employee you hire is a ticking time bomb because as many today seem to be looking for a nice lawsuit on which to retire as are actually looking for a job (illegals typically donât present this problem). Every year the cost of workmanâs comp expands. Every year the prices for your crops go down because of foreign competition while your cost of production rises. You reach a breaking point, what do you do? Sell to a developer? Hold out until the bitter end after creditors force judgment sales of the family farm? Walk away? Hire illegals who present a lower cost structure so you can hang on a few more years?

We really are killing the goose that laid the golden egg and the crying shame is that most of us have no idea how or why it's happening. Illegal immigration is driven more by the high costs imposed on business by our nanny-state than by greed on the part of small business owners who hire the bulk of illegals (and yes, it's the SMALL BUSINESS folks who will be hurt the most if we follow many of the suggestions above).

Posted by AzCat 2005-07-17 22:44|| 2005-07-17 22:44|| Front Page Top

23:56 Tibor
23:56 trailing wife
23:52 trailing wife
23:45 MunkarKat
23:45 trailing wife
23:20 Red Dog
23:17 3dc
23:16 3dc
23:15 bigjim-ky
23:09 MunkarKat
22:44 AzCat
22:36 Frank G
22:35 Bobby
22:22 Fred
22:14 C-Low
22:14 Bobby
22:11 Frank G
22:06 Whiskey Mike
22:05 mmurray821
22:00 mmurray821
22:00 AzCat
21:52 OldSpook
21:31 Phil Fraering
21:22 mhw