Article

2005-05-31 China-Japan-Koreas

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-05-31 11:02|| || Front Page|| [11137 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Romeo! Romeo!
Where art thou knock-off?

It's the batteries Juliet,
Upon my floor.

Posted by Shipman 2005-05-31 13:16|| 2005-05-31 13:16|| Front Page Top

#2 He-he Shipman!

Posted by mmurray821 2005-05-31 13:35|| 2005-05-31 13:35|| Front Page Top

#3 Are we seeing the beginning of the end for the Chinese navy (like the Russkies before them)? Or is this another chess play off the coast of Taiwan?

Posted by BA">BA 2005-05-31 15:12|| 2005-05-31 15:12|| Front Page Top

#4 Mandarin is such a tonal language, can you imagine how confusing it must be for them when they communicat via sound powered phones?

Posted by Penguin 2005-05-31 16:13|| 2005-05-31 16:13|| Front Page Top

#5 China wants to play a numbers game with its navy, like with everything else. They probably figure that if they can send several submarines after one US submarine, they can sacrifice any submarine just to get the US submarine to expose itself, then have their remaining ships concentrate its fires on it. Do not discount the willingness to sacrifice, or the value of quantity over quality.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-05-31 17:28|| 2005-05-31 17:28|| Front Page Top

#6 It is said that quality has a quantity all of it's own.

Posted by Shipman 2005-05-31 17:35|| 2005-05-31 17:35|| Front Page Top

#7 Andre... you've lost another submarine?

Posted by Seafarious">Seafarious 2005-05-31 17:53|| 2005-05-31 17:53|| Front Page Top

#8 The Hunt for Red October, first thing I thought when I read the headline

Posted by djohn66 2005-05-31 18:41|| 2005-05-31 18:41|| Front Page Top

#9 Accident number two, eh?

Those Mings are merciless...

Posted by Pappy 2005-05-31 20:06|| 2005-05-31 20:06|| Front Page Top

#10 Romeo! Romeo!
Where art thou knock-off?

Same as the other Romeos:

2 CZ's away with a busted snort, listing to port.

Posted by OldSpook 2005-05-31 20:43|| 2005-05-31 20:43|| Front Page Top

#11 China wants to play a numbers game with its navy, like with everything else. They probably figure that if they can send several submarines after one US submarine, they can sacrifice any submarine just to get the US submarine to expose itself, then have their remaining ships concentrate its fires on it. Do not discount the willingness to sacrifice, or the value of quantity over quality

Chinese Sailor: "He said what???"

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-05-31 21:19|| 2005-05-31 21:19|| Front Page Top

#12 The Ming is probably the oldest basic design of submarine currently in service with a major power, certainly the oldest serving in significant numbers. The "Romeo" class were an
improved version of the "Whiskey," itself derived from the German Type XXI U-boat of WW2.

Nevertheless, these boats have a significant strategic potential. The vagaries of the ocean being what they are, it is possible for even an obsolete sub to get lucky against major opposition, and this likelihood naturally grows with the numbers.
The Ming, like all subs of any reasonable size, has a pretty good range. They could disrupt commerce and divert resources over a very large and critical area by forcing merchant ships to travel in convoy. In the time required to get a convoy system organized, the Chinese sub fleet could pick off dozens of container ships, tankers, fishing vessels and other unprotected traffic all over the western Pacific and perhaps further afield. The economic impact would be in the many billions within hours. Perhaps even more importantly in the age of media-warfare, such sinkings would greatly assist the Fifth Column media in their utterly predictable efforts to sow panic and defeatism at an early stage.

It is also likely that subs like the Ming can be used for special ops insertion, again over a huge area. A diesel-electric sub that avoids drawing attention to itself has a fair chance of reaching any coastline in the world adding to the diversion of resources from the most important areas.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2005-05-31 21:42|| 2005-05-31 21:42|| Front Page Top

#13 Iirc, the Ming is credited with a range of about 4500 miles. This is pretty good in and of itself, but there is great potential for clandestine replenishment in other areas; Iran, certain African countries on both coasts, and Venezuela for example.
Beyond that, it is conceivable that the submarines could replenish clandestinely from merchant ships or naval auxiliaries belonging to any of these countries, or possibly even from vessels operated by various pirate and traitor elements of any nationality.
This would be on a small scale, and losses would be high, but the propaganda value of being able to threaten any part of the world would be enormous.
It is unlikely that these submarines could approach the US coast closely enough to do real danger (though even this is not impossible) but attacks and sinkings in nearby but relatively unprotected areas would have a devastating psychological impact. This could include the coast of Mexico or the Caribbean, as well as certain outlying territories of the US. Similar damage could be done in European waters. In the age of media-based warfare, the objective military importance of the targets would be a secondary consideration.
In this respect, the strategy would resemble that of modern terrorists.
Like the Islamic terrorists, the Chinese admirals could count on defeatist media to inflate any target into evidence of their invincibility and power.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2005-05-31 22:00|| 2005-05-31 22:00|| Front Page Top

#14 Remember, in WW2, the Germans and Japanese were able to operate WW2-era-technology subs within visual range of the coasts of the United States... and we were able to blockade Japan with similar subs.

Posted by Phil Fraering 2005-05-31 22:47|| http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com]">[http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com] 2005-05-31 22:47|| Front Page Top

00:05 JosephMendiola
23:32 Cyber Sarge
23:30 Cyber Sarge
23:24 Rafael
23:07 Tony (UK)
23:03 SteveS
22:47 Phil Fraering
22:42 badanov
22:42 Phil Fraering
22:41 CrazyFool
22:25 Sheik Abu Bin Ali Al-Yahood
22:25 Frank G
22:21 Bomb-a-rama
22:20 CrazyFool
22:17 Dave D.
22:14 Barbara Skolaut
22:12 Elmereper Jomosing1480
22:02 Rex Mundi
22:01 eLarson
22:00 Frank G
22:00 Atomic Conspiracy
22:00 .com
21:56 Frank G
21:55 eLarson