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2004-12-20 Europe
Turkey's imams predict more freedom of worship — thanks to the EU (via DhimmiWatch)
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Posted by ed 2004-12-20 14:33|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 I'm at a loss for words. Turkey is looking to the EU for religious freedom. On the other hand, the EU is rapidly leaning anti-muslim.

I think Yusef islam was closer to the Truth when he was a pop rock and roll star...

It's a wild, wild world.
Posted by Mac Suirtain 2004-12-20 4:06:30 PM||   2004-12-20 4:06:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 What the imans want to happen is to be allowed to voice full throated support for Islamism which is prevented now by the Army.

Perhaps we are approaching the end of secular rule in Turkey.
Posted by mhw 2004-12-20 4:21:19 PM||   2004-12-20 4:21:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 "Turkish people in my position want to be in Europe because it will mean greater liberty for us,'' he said.
Although modern Turkey is overwhelmingly Muslim, it is in some respects a more fiercely secular state than most of the EU."

The Turkish leadership do not know what they are getting into. Not only is the EU rapidly leaning anti-muslim but the EU is rapidly wiping out religion as a whole. The EU is moving fast towards "one leader" worship as opposed to any deity. This is nothing new, Ceaser and Hitler had to worshipped, not just obeyed.

....Hitler was a rebel. He rebelled against society and he rebelled against God! His rebellion against God is further illustrated by what was done to the LORD'S PRAYER during the pinnacle of Hitlers career in Germany. It was changed to read,

Our Father, Adolph, who art on earth, Hallowed be thy name, the Third Reich come..."
Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-12-20 4:26:59 PM||   2004-12-20 4:26:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 The EU is moving fast towards "one leader" worship as opposed to any deity.

Strangely enough, I've not been feeling the urge to bow down in worship before Barrosso.

Dude, are ya sure you're not confusing reality with one of those novels about Rapture times?
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-12-20 8:27:02 PM||   2004-12-20 8:27:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Poison Reverse, this was indeed incredible BS
Posted by True German Ally 2004-12-20 8:46:18 PM||   2004-12-20 8:46:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Aris & TGA,

I have no agrument. Just my rant. I have no proof of what will happen or when it will happen. I am only making opinion on the microscopic trends that I have observed over the years and of course, my belief not in novels, but the Bible. Although, I believe in the rapture, I don't sit around and twitiling my thumbs NOR do I shove my beliefs down anybody's throat. My philosophy is simple, listen or don't listen, it doesn't matter to me. History is clear and it will repeat.
Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-12-20 9:10:07 PM||   2004-12-20 9:10:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 "The EU is moving fast towards "one leader" worship as opposed to any deity."

This is the nonsense. Which leader is the EU worshipping?

Il Santo Barroso or what?
Posted by True German Ally 2004-12-20 9:23:36 PM||   2004-12-20 9:23:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Il Jacques?
Posted by Frank G  2004-12-20 9:32:52 PM||   2004-12-20 9:32:52 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 I believe I have already answered your question in #6. The person in question is yet to come. I don't know who he is. You don't have to believe me. We will watch the trends together. Maybe, my statement is nonsense, to most of the EU citizens. Carry on.
Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-12-20 9:35:56 PM||   2004-12-20 9:35:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Ah, Rapture!

I've heard that back in the brief period when the European Community had 10 member states (just after Greece joined) there were some religious nuts saying that it will *never* grow beyond 10, because the number 10 proves that the European Community is the ten-horned beast of the Apocalypse.

Yeah, *that* prophecy turned out like a charm. :-)
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-12-20 9:49:25 PM||   2004-12-20 9:49:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Aris,

The difference between me and the religious nuts is that I don't pretend know what and when something will happen. I am sick of religious nuts making prophecies they have no business making. Ever heard of false prophets? I hear what you & TGA are saying. I keep a level head. Please don't compare me to the religious nuts. I am not one of them.
Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-12-20 9:59:06 PM||   2004-12-20 9:59:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Poison Reverse said: "I am sick of religious nuts making prophecies they have no business making. Ever heard of false prophets?"

Poison Reverse also said: "The EU is moving fast towards "one leader" worship as opposed to any deity."

I rest my case. :-)
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-12-20 10:01:26 PM||   2004-12-20 10:01:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Frank G, Chirac couldn't even get re-elected in France if he had to run against someone NOT being Le Pen.

He'll probably spend the end of the decade in French courtrooms.
Posted by True German Ally 2004-12-20 10:13:26 PM||   2004-12-20 10:13:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 TGA - he's a professional rodent politician - I suspect he'll never see the inside of a courtroom. Call me a cynic
Posted by Frank G  2004-12-20 10:16:03 PM||   2004-12-20 10:16:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 victory, huh, Aris?
Posted by Frank G  2004-12-20 10:16:44 PM||   2004-12-20 10:16:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Aris,

Good one. Your overwhelming and superior brain power have twisted my words and got me, Mark Geragos. I feel bad. I think I will jump off a cliff now, NOT. For a self identified liberal, you sure don't have tolerance for any Christian views.
Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-12-20 10:17:56 PM||   2004-12-20 10:17:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 No, he'll definitely see a court room, but probably not jail. "La dignité de la France" doesn't allow for that.
OK, he might get around it by getting elected Member of the EU parliament to enjoy immunity. The Le Pen method.
Posted by True German Ally 2004-12-20 10:18:57 PM||   2004-12-20 10:18:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 yep!
Posted by Frank G  2004-12-20 10:20:21 PM||   2004-12-20 10:20:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 I don't know about Mark Geragos. His client just got the death penalty. And Michael Jackson doesn't look that good either :-)
Posted by True German Ally 2004-12-20 10:20:34 PM||   2004-12-20 10:20:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 TGA,

If the EU Const. were to be ratified in the middle of next year, what happens to Schroder and Chirac?
Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-12-20 10:23:08 PM||   2004-12-20 10:23:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Geragos is a professional parasite lawyer. I heard today, that after his expensive ineffectual representation of a guilty man (Peterson), that he's started a web page to ask for donations via paypal, etc. to pay his staff to look for teh "real killers" ...shades of OJ!
Posted by Frank G  2004-12-20 10:23:43 PM||   2004-12-20 10:23:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 For a self identified liberal, you sure don't have tolerance for any Christian views.

Sure I have tolerance for Christian views: You have the right to spew religious nuttery, and I have the right to mock it.

That I am a liberal means that I want you to keep the right to be as religiously nutty as you would like, as long as you don't physically hurt others.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-12-20 10:23:57 PM||   2004-12-20 10:23:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Poison Reverse, they will both sit out their terms, what else?
Posted by True German Ally 2004-12-20 10:25:54 PM||   2004-12-20 10:25:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 religiously nutty?

You pedantic asshole. I've watched your mewling attempts at moral superiority, and my cat has higher standards. Grow up, punk, and realize that you don't know shit. All graduates think they do, it'll just take longer before you get it beaten into you.
Posted by Frank G  2004-12-20 10:29:26 PM||   2004-12-20 10:29:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Aris,

"as long as you don't physically hurt others

Never!! not over Chrisitan view disagreements. For me to physically hurt someone because they didn't believe my views, is to insult the POWER of my God.

But, on the other hand, governments are obligated to protect its citizens, even if that means war.
Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-12-20 10:30:03 PM||   2004-12-20 10:30:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 TGA,

Last question. Will they have any power?
Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-12-20 10:31:20 PM||   2004-12-20 10:31:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 TGA, If the EU Const. were to be ratified in the middle of next year, what happens to Schroder and Chirac?

First, it's not set to be fully ratified until about the middle of 2006. Secondly, if ratified (and given the United Kingdom vote, that's extremely doubtful btw), "This Treaty shall enter into force on 1 November 2006, provided that all the instruments of ratification have been deposited, or, failing that, on the first day of the second month following the deposit of the instrument of ratification by the last signatory State to take this step."

Third, even if it was ratified, nothing would happen to Chirac or Schroeder. They'd still have the positions they currently have. Given all the phobia about the Constitution, it's amazing how little it actually changes in the functioning of the Union. It makes it a tiny bit more functional, that is all.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-12-20 10:32:15 PM||   2004-12-20 10:32:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 Frank,

Thanks.

Sean Hannity is right. Liberals have no tolerance.
Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-12-20 10:33:07 PM||   2004-12-20 10:33:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 nite, Aris....what time is it over there? 5AM? Get a life
Posted by Frank G  2004-12-20 10:33:18 PM||   2004-12-20 10:33:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Aris, if it is, why are German politicians so afraid of a referendum.

Even the Greens, the champions of "basic democracy", don't want one.

Maybe we don't need a referendum. But we need to have a real public debate about the Constitution.

For good reasons. They might have to explain why France has exactly the same voting power as Germany (which has much more citizens).
Posted by True German Ally 2004-12-20 10:36:57 PM||   2004-12-20 10:36:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Poison Reverse, of course, if you're talking about their national power. Their influence in the EU is set to decline somewhat but this was bound to happen with the enlargement.
Posted by True German Ally 2004-12-20 10:39:45 PM||   2004-12-20 10:39:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 TGA,

Thanks.
Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-12-20 10:44:30 PM||   2004-12-20 10:44:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 TGA> No offense, but it was *before* the Constitution that Germany had the same voting rights as France in the Council. *If* the constitution is ratified however, *then* you'll have voting power analogous with your population.

One of the good things of the Constitution is that it rectifies this long-overdue injustice in the functioning of the Union. Germany will now have more power than France or Italy.

It may indeed be that they are afraid of the Constitution will fail -- and I agree with you that this was probably the case with the Treaty of Maastricht and the Euro (which was actually a bigger change than the Constitution is).

They may however also be afraid of referendums in *general*, of letting go of power in *general*. Because once they have set the precedent of a referendum, then the German people may start demanding it on more and more issues.

I'm pretty sure that's the reason why the *Greek* political elite doesn't allow a referendum. They are not afraid the Constitution will fail, they are just afraid of the precedent that such an example will set for the future.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-12-20 10:44:31 PM||   2004-12-20 10:44:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 Aris,

"I'm pretty sure that's the reason why the *Greek* political elite Aris Katsaris doesn't allow a referendum"

Didn't mommy ever tell you to stop refering to yourself in 3rd person. BTW, "elite" is a bad word in the U.S.
Posted by Poison Reverse 2004-12-20 10:50:02 PM||   2004-12-20 10:50:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 BTW, "elite" is a bad word in the U.S.

That's exactly the way I meant it, my dear religious nut.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-12-20 10:52:30 PM||   2004-12-20 10:52:30 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 
In the USA, as elsewhere, the word "elite" is negative in some contexts, postive in others. We speak of elite military forces, elite scientists, etc.
.
Posted by Mike Sylwester 2004-12-20 11:17:46 PM||   2004-12-20 11:17:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 Aris, you are right, that was still old "Nice" I was referring to.

The regulations about a qualified majority have changed. But Germany still doesn't get more votes than France.
Posted by True German Ally 2004-12-20 11:35:09 PM||   2004-12-20 11:35:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 Under Nice, each country was given a specific number of votes, and Germany always had the exact same votes as France (and UK and Italy) - 29 votes. I agree that this was very unjust.

But in the new voting arrangements of the Council, the member states *aren't* given specific numbers of votes -- instead the new qualified majority is defined as "55% of the members of the Council, comprising at least fifteen of them and representing Member States comprising at least 65% of the population of the Union."

So, Germany *will* now have more voting power than France.
Posted by Aris Katsaris  2004-12-20 11:46:05 PM||   2004-12-20 11:46:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 Well you see Aris, even I get confused... what will the average German make of this?
Posted by True German Ally 2004-12-20 11:59:10 PM||   2004-12-20 11:59:10 PM|| Front Page Top

00:42 Billy Hank
00:02 True German Ally
23:59 True German Ally
23:53 Grolurt Shutle8331
23:49 Grolurt Shutle8331
23:46 Aris Katsaris
23:38 Ady
23:35 True German Ally
23:17 Mike Sylwester
23:15 Mike Sylwester
23:03 cingold
23:00 Bomb-a-rama
22:52 Aris Katsaris
22:50 Poison Reverse
22:47 Asedwich
22:46 Asedwich
22:44 Aris Katsaris
22:44 Poison Reverse
22:40 Atomic Conspiracy
22:39 True German Ally
22:36 True German Ally
22:36 jackal
22:33 Frank G
22:33 Poison Reverse









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