Article

2004-12-13 Home Front: Culture Wars

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by badanov 2004-12-13 7:51:29 AM|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 I have never been invited to an orgy.
That's why he's pissed.

Posted by Spot 2004-12-13 9:16:23 AM|| 2004-12-13 9:16:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Iâm going to try to better understand the so-called Christian Right

He should start by dropping the "so-called" insult.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-12-13 9:19:37 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/] 2004-12-13 9:19:37 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Steven Levitan is an Emmy Award-winning writer and executive producer of television comedies. He created the long-running NBC series Just Shoot Me and is developing two series for next fall. None of this impresses his wife and kids in the least.

Or me, either.

Ask them today if they would have financed Passion knowing then what they know now, and youâll see enough green lights to make Hollywood look like a Christmas tree.

We're supposed to be impressed that greed kicks in where there are no principles people are willing to stand up for?

Pfeh. This guy is self-satirizing.

Posted by too true 2004-12-13 9:24:03 AM|| 2004-12-13 9:24:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 I am reminded of a comedian's routine about how a gang-banger behaves when he's outside of his 'hood: overly polite, even ingratiating, and with very precise English.

Posted by Anonymoose 2004-12-13 9:43:53 AM|| 2004-12-13 9:43:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 "Free Clinic" sounds so high and mighty. Let's see what they actually do:

1) Free showers for the homeless. I don't think any homeless actually take them up on that.

2) HIV testing for gays. Well that was an obvious one.

3) Legal advice for illegal aliens and juvenile hooligans, so they can avoid jail and continue to break the law.

4) Women's Health. STD cures and abortion referrals.

5) Dental care. Well, no argument here.

6) Integrative medicine. Chinese herbs and yoga. These are treatments for real disorders? Hello, placebo effect!

Pretty much every page on their site has HIV status emphasized. Some people are more equal than others, eh?

Volunteers needed: Attorneys, law students, every single dental specialty (well I take back the positive statement about dental services...evidently they don't have enough dentists, and the openings are for 3-hour shifts), Spanish translators, and assorted admin staff.

Job opening: Grant writer. Well, that was obvious...the Hollywood types aren't getting the bills paid, they need more free money. Job requirement: "Willingness to commit to the philosophy and goals of The Los Angeles Free Clinic." I wonder how those apocryphal Bush voters would fit in here.

In short, this clinic, while admirable, panders to the liberal leanings of its elitist Hollywood sponsors, and mostly dispenses treatments that adhere to their liberal views.

Posted by gromky 2004-12-13 10:00:36 AM|| 2004-12-13 10:00:36 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 We teach our children compassion, charity, honesty and the benefits of hard work. We teach them to help those who aren't as lucky as they are.

Well, which is it? Do they benefit from the wages of hard work or the whims of fortune? These kids are likely to be every bit as confused as their old man.

Posted by BH 2004-12-13 10:14:22 AM|| 2004-12-13 10:14:22 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Hollywood's in the same business as schoolyard dope dealers: same target market, same type of product, same business ethos

Posted by lex 2004-12-13 10:20:09 AM|| 2004-12-13 10:20:09 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 There are actually two Hollywoods (as soon to be former Senator John Edwards might say)

1- the list people: leading script writers, actors, directors, producers

2- employees: the stunt personnel, the grippers, the costume personnel, the set personel

The people in #1 have numerous residences, go to parties all the time (maybe orgies) and are about 90% democratic

The people in #2 work hard just like blue collar people anywhere do; many of them live in Simi Valley and vote republican

Posted by mhw 2004-12-13 10:50:08 AM|| 2004-12-13 10:50:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 These kids are likely to be every bit as confused as their old man.

Heh, I had to look at that twice myself. :)

Seems to me this guy is probably just mouthing the words. If he knew what he was talking about, he wouldn't be contradicting himself like that.

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-12-13 11:48:02 AM|| 2004-12-13 11:48:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 My wife and I are friends with several gay couples, many of whom have been together for 20-plus years.

And I'm friends with Pentacostals, many who have been together for 20-plus years. Gets which groups gets treated better by your side?

Posted by Pappy 2004-12-13 12:21:42 PM|| 2004-12-13 12:21:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 When I think of Hollywood Elites I think of Actors and Directors, not screenwriters.

Posted by rjschwarz 2004-12-13 1:07:26 PM|| [http://rjschwarz.com] 2004-12-13 1:07:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Not all are nuts. Roger Simon's cool, an ex-liberal, OSacr-winning screenwriter and part-time blogger. He's also friends with Charles Johnson. Check out his site: www.rogerlsimon.com

Posted by lex 2004-12-13 1:10:24 PM|| 2004-12-13 1:10:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 conservative masses, why do they hate us?

Posted by 2b 2004-12-13 2:00:08 PM|| 2004-12-13 2:00:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Apparently, a surprising number of the younger creatives are conservative and Republican. They keep silent in order to be able to have careers, but it will be quite interesting in that part of the world within twenty years. As for the orgies, it isn't the 1920's any more, or the '60s, or the 80's. Nowadays, I imagine they are small, private affairs, with carefully picked guest lists -- people like us who are least likely to be infected with an unamusing disease, or to have spouses who would object to the activities.

Posted by trailing wife 2004-12-13 2:25:00 PM|| 2004-12-13 2:25:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 A largely unoticed trend is that Hollywood now gets most of its movie revenue from outside the USA and the TV industry is going down the same path. Hollywood is merely reflecting the prejudices of its market.

Posted by phil_b 2004-12-13 4:37:31 PM|| 2004-12-13 4:37:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 people like us who are least likely to be infected with an unamusing disease, or to have spouses who would object to the activities.

ah, so now we know what "trailing" refers to

Posted by lex 2004-12-13 5:43:17 PM|| 2004-12-13 5:43:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 TW, Times? Places? Links?

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-12-13 5:44:55 PM|| 2004-12-13 5:44:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 The other aspect of Hollywood is that most of their revenue derives from an audience of subliterate teenagers and uneducated young adults.

They're out of touch with normal people because very few of them create works that normal people over the age of 22 have any interest in. Films for intelligent adults are a dying business. What struck Hollywood types about both F911 and the Passion was that these movies were bringing into the theaters millions of adults who had not attended a movie in years.

Posted by lex 2004-12-13 5:46:54 PM|| 2004-12-13 5:46:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Not that either F911 or that SM fetish romp, The Passion, were aimed at intelligent adults...

Posted by lex 2004-12-13 5:48:18 PM|| 2004-12-13 5:48:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 What struck Hollywood types about both F911 and the Passion was that these movies were bringing into the theaters millions of adults who had not attended a movie in years.

Heh, I haven't been to the local theaters in years myself, and neither one of these was compelling enough to cause me to break my streak. :)

Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-12-13 6:12:40 PM|| 2004-12-13 6:12:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Not that either F911 or that SM fetish romp, The Passion, were aimed at intelligent adults

that was the single most unintelligent thing I've heard - classing them in the same sentence and disparaging Christians and their history. Nice job, even for an atheist

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-13 6:47:45 PM|| 2004-12-13 6:47:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 The Passion is obscene. A smut flick. An embarrassment to Christians, and intellectually dishonest as well: note how Mikey, er, Mel lied about removing his anti-jewish insertion that recalled the blood libel. He removed only the subtitle, not the aramaic spoken words, which means that every foreign distributor is free to retain the blood libel portion, whether it be subtitled in arabic or polish or russian or whatever.

Posted by lex 2004-12-13 6:54:10 PM|| 2004-12-13 6:54:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Here's a surefire growth industry: an integrated production and distribution chain featuring both low-budget paranoid lefty agitprop crap and low-budget obscene funamentalist Opus Dei crap. Huge margins and a lock on the over-25 true believer market.

Posted by lex 2004-12-13 6:56:59 PM|| 2004-12-13 6:56:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 good luck in your life, Lex

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-13 6:57:41 PM|| 2004-12-13 6:57:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Smut's smut, Frank. Sorry. Anyone who would expose his children to Mel's obscene gorefest is sick. As are most of the Opus Dei wackos who apparently inspired his, uh, "vision"

Posted by lex 2004-12-13 7:00:33 PM|| 2004-12-13 7:00:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 I would not show the "Passion" to children, and I don't think any rational mind holds Jews today responsible for Roman and Rabbi political decisions 2000 yrs ago - this thread was run endlessly when the movie came out. As I noted at the time, Jews didn't kill Jesus, we all did, and it was his chosen fate to die - for all of us. The blood libel canard is available for anyone who wants to not understand the message - in fact Gibson is one of the hands in the movie nailing Jesus to the cross, to demonstrate that we all did it. Arabs, et al, will use anything they desire to for their own ends, or is Mel responsible for the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion"? It's obvious you and I won't agree on this, sounds like you have some issues I can't help you with...sorry

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-13 7:14:43 PM|| 2004-12-13 7:14:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 btw - I didn't mean that last part to sound snarky....unusual for me, I know...

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-13 7:16:54 PM|| 2004-12-13 7:16:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 Smut's smut, Frank.

Wow.

Iâve seen more graphic depictions of the crucifixion than the one Mel produced -- but I wouldnât call those depictions âsmutâ either. The New Testament record is fairly clear that Christ went through mockeries of trials before the Sanhedrin, Herod, and the Roman Governor. The record also is clear that Christ suffered beatings and insult along the way, including a severe scourging that Governor Pilate appeared to have hoped would appease Christâs enemies. In the end, Christ suffered a Roman crucifixion. Extra-biblical sources concur that Christ lived, drew a following, and was crucified by the Romans. The only real historical question is what happened to Christâs body thereafter.

To call any portrayal of Christâs suffering as âsmutâ is to equate blood sacrifice with depictions of prurient sexual gratification. You canât argue that Melâs depiction is anything but accurate as far as the historical record of Christâs suffering goes. Beating, scourging and crucifixion do have the results Mel depicts.

As for the blood libel charge, argue with the writers of the New Testament (who were Jewish) not with Mel. The words that were put in the movie by Mel are what the New Testament says some Jewish leaders were saying at the time. THE NEW TESTAMENT DOESNâT SAY THAT GOD OR THE CHURCH TOOK THEM UP ON THE OFFER. If the blood libel doctrine were correct, then was Christâs suffering a willing propitiation, or just the bad breaks that some race should now be cursed for? I donât doubt that some people (using the name of âChrist,â even) have claimed that the Jews are subject to blood libel, but those are the same types as supported the Inquisition. The Biblical doctrines condemn anyone who would claim a blood libel on the Jews.

The Christians revere Christâs voluntary suffering -- believing that Christ did not have to undergo the suffering, but chose to suffer as a blood sacrifice to erase the sins of the repentant. Christâs suffering is revered as an example of true selfless devotion, and as a challenge to how we should all live to help others.

If thatâs âsmut,â Iâm missing something.

Posted by cingold 2004-12-13 7:33:02 PM|| 2004-12-13 7:33:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 If my info is correct that the blood libel does not occur in all of the Gospels, only one of them, then why did Mel put it in? More to the point, he agreed with his critics that it was deeply offensive and inflammatory and said he would remove it.

But he lied. He left the scene and removed only the English subtitles. So every foreign jew-basher can not only watch the scene but also read subtitles that are now totally up to the discretion of shall we say less "sensitive" distributors in the middle east and Eastern Europe. Disgusting.

Posted by lex 2004-12-13 7:46:06 PM|| 2004-12-13 7:46:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Look, dude, if you find deathporn entertaining, then by all means go for it. But Mel's clearly a liar and an opportunist-- not just for his blood libel lies and shenanigans but also by pretending the Pope endorsed his project when Mel has consistently voiced his scorn for the Pope's "liberalism". In my book Mel's merely the right-wing version of MikeyBoy. Pox on 'em both.

Posted by lex 2004-12-13 7:49:01 PM|| 2004-12-13 7:49:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 clearly you and your "deathporn" will never be reconciled with my view. No skin off my fore, as Master Fred sez. You're not going to change your opinion and I certainly have better to do.

Posted by Frank G 2004-12-13 7:55:15 PM|| 2004-12-13 7:55:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 So every foreign jew-basher can not only watch the scene but also read subtitles that are now totally up to the discretion of shall we say less "sensitive" distributors in the middle east and Eastern Europe. Disgusting.

Ridiculous! Those who hate the Jews will do so at any provocation, and even without provocation. You may as well urge the suppression of the whole New Testament -- including the other variations of the gospels, because they can be misread as well. Frankly, the New Testament is much more supportive of Jews and the Jewish religion than you imagine. For the longest time, Christianity was considered by many to be simply one of the sects of Judaism.

Posted by cingold 2004-12-13 8:08:41 PM|| 2004-12-13 8:08:41 PM|| Front Page Top