Article

2004-08-24 Caucasus

Saakashvili to Georgians: "Prepare for War with Russia"

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Posted by Another Dan 2004-08-24 4:21:52 AM|| || Front Page|| [1 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Well, please don't do a blink tag.

I don't think Georgia can do much to prepare to fight Russia.

But I guess that's the breaks when you let George Soros elect your president.

Posted by Phil Fraering 2004-08-24 11:24:31 AM|| [http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com] 2004-08-24 11:24:31 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 PF: I don't think Georgia can do much to prepare to fight Russia. But I guess that's the breaks when you let George Soros elect your president.

Actually, I don't rate Russia all that highly any more. They can take land, but can't deal with guerrilla warfare without taking significant casualties. Can the Russians take the impact of another significant conflict in addition to Chechnya - either from the standpoint of economic or troop losses (a dozen a day)?

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-08-24 12:08:08 PM|| [http://www.polipundit.com] 2004-08-24 12:08:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 I don't think Georgia can do much to prepare to fight Russia.

They could take a few hints from the French War College:

o Make sure all your sheets are washed, and use extra bleach while washing them. Use of a "whitener" that flouresces will not only make the surrender flags stand out more, it may help their visibility in low-light and infrared equipment.

o Decide on the shape of your post-war biography early. Collaborators need an early start to covering up their acts, and those of you who choose the "resistance" will need to collect the names of those shot as "partisans" to form the rest of your "cells". Be warned: no one buys into the "public collaborator/private resistor" line anymore, and, as John Kerry is learning, changing roles mid-stream can cause embarassment in the future.

o If you own a restaurant, stock up on all your best and cancel all the local reservations. The invaders will be getting all the seats, even if the kindly old man across the street has been eating dinners at your place for decades.

o Prepare for the liberation by stocking up on razors! You'll need them to demonstrate your patriotic fervor by shaving ~~single mothers~~ collaborators!

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-08-24 12:10:04 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2004-08-24 12:10:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 So far, one Rantburger seems to accuse the Georgians of reckless courage in opposing a neighbouring invader, and another Rantburgers seems to accuse them of cowardice for some bizarre reason.

Russia has already invaded Georgia and de facto annexed portions of it. And on *my* part I think I'd rather attack Nazi Germany and *NOT* Czechoslovakia.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-08-24 12:36:06 PM|| 2004-08-24 12:36:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Aris--

This doesn't look like it will end happily, does it?

Posted by BMN 2004-08-24 1:40:48 PM|| 2004-08-24 1:40:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 When TGA mentioned talks with Russia about isolating/dealing with Iran, I was afraid that Caucasus would be the sacrifice that the West would offer to the bear in return.

Whether that has been/will be the case, I don't know, but one thing's for certain either way -- that the Georgians can't count on the West for assistance. I can only wish them luck and a good fight.

At some point Russia will chew more than it can shallow, I just hope it won't be controlling half of Europe *again* by that point.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-08-24 2:28:01 PM|| 2004-08-24 2:28:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Katsaris, you're such a closeet Communist...and a whiner to boot!
The United States is not going to abandon its ally Georgia and we're still a large part of the "West" last time I looked!
Georgia-while it's trying to recover from being Stalin's home-- is our ally in Iraq and we stand by our allies and friends as even a Greek should be able to attest!
(After all, how much aid have we poured into Hellene, eh?
Betcha we're even picking up a big part of the Olympic tab, too!)

Posted by GreatestJeneration 2004-08-24 2:47:06 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-08-24 2:47:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Katsaris, you're such a closet Communist...and a whiner to boot!
The United States is not going to abandon its ally Georgia and we're still a large part of the "West" last time I looked!
Georgia--while it's trying to recover from being Stalin's home-- is our ally in Iraq and we stand by our allies and friends as even a Greek should be able to attest!
(After all, how much aid have we poured into Hellene, eh?
Betcha we're even picking up a big part of the Olympic tab, too!)

Posted by GreatestJeneration 2004-08-24 2:47:31 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-08-24 2:47:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Fuck off, Jen. I have no interest in seeing your retarded masturbation. The rest of us talk about wars and global powers and unravelling history, but you are back playing with your moronic stalking of me and your petty kindergarten insults.

And if you think USA (or anyone else for that matter) is gonna send troops to help the Georgians fight the Russians in their back yard then you are even stupider that I had believed of you -- and that's not a thing easily accomplished.

And don't try to use Greek words without knowing what they mean, you idiot. "Hellene" doesn't mean "Greece", unlike what you seem to believe. And no, the US hasn't picked up any of the Olympic tab either, it's the EU that did that. You fucking moron.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-08-24 3:03:22 PM|| 2004-08-24 3:03:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Whatever, Aristotle.
But we're still not going to abandon our ally Georgia or Azherbijan or the rest of the Caucasus.
We didn't fight the Cold War (WWIII) for 50 years and have President Reagan knock down the Berlin Wall only to allow Russia to take it back over!
And we've poured plenty of money into Greece, too and are supposedly your ally, although you'd never know it from the snotty French-like way you people behave towards us!
Keep your feta cheese and dolma and stuff it up your souflaki!
I think you have sex with goats because they can't fight back.
So there!

Posted by GreatestJeneration 2004-08-24 3:10:02 PM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-08-24 3:10:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 ...but you are back playing with your moronic stalking of me and your petty kindergarten insults.

Wow, I've never seen that line of 'criticism' from Aris before...

Posted by Raj 2004-08-24 3:13:39 PM|| 2004-08-24 3:13:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Raj> How else would you call people that deliberately follow me from thread to thread in order to insult me, other than "stalkers"?

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-08-24 3:24:58 PM|| 2004-08-24 3:24:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Kat Heads? :)

Posted by Monolito Montoya 2004-08-24 3:43:55 PM|| 2004-08-24 3:43:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 AK: At some point Russia will chew more than it can shallow, I just hope it won't be controlling half of Europe *again* by that point.

Russia's guerrilla war in Chechnya *is* already more than it can swallow. Mark my words - there is no way the Russian military can fight in both Chechnya and Georgia at the same time. If they move their forces to Georgia, the Chechens are going to take advantage of the lull to thump the Russians in both Chechnya and Ingushetia. The Russians think they're hot stuff because the Georgians have pretty much given ground in both Abkhazia and South Ossetia so far. I think they're going to find out that once Georgian nationalism gets going, Russian losses in Georgia are going to make Chechnya look like a skirmish.

The Soviet Union dissolved peacefully because of the danger of a civil war involving WMD, as formerly latent nationalisms emerged in the WMD-armed former Soviet Republics. The Russians should think about the risks, as they embark on a campaign of re-conquest. Are the former republics really worth the complete destruction of Russia's cities?

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-08-24 3:59:02 PM|| [http://www.polipundit.com] 2004-08-24 3:59:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Aris, I'm aware that English isn't your first language, and that you prefer to take insult where none is intended but let me make this clear:

I WAS NOT CALLING THE GEORGIANS COWARDS.

I was calling the FRENCH cowards.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-08-24 4:04:46 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2004-08-24 4:04:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 The US doesn't have to get involved directly. All it has to do is supply the Georgians, just as it supplied the mujahideen after the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. $1B a year. Does anyone understand what the Georgians could do to the much-depleted Russian military using this scale of armaments? The Russians can forget about using helicopters or airplanes in Georgian airspace.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-08-24 5:23:00 PM|| [http://www.polipundit.com] 2004-08-24 5:23:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 The US has trained some special forces in Georgia and earlier this summer Russia was furious about alleged presence of those special ops guys in Ossetia.

SOCOM is pretty busy, but it's not inconceivable that we would have some advisors still there. IF it comes to military action, the Georgians might not be totally alone ...

(SOCOM = Special Operations Command)

Posted by too true 2004-08-24 6:03:54 PM|| 2004-08-24 6:03:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Aris, as far as I can tell, Soros orchestrated a "velvet revolution" in Georgia. One of the results of this revolution is a worsening of relations between Georgia and Russia including Saakashvili making several inflamatory statements. Soros and Putin are certainly not friends, but why would that be a case for American intervention. I thought American intervetion was bad.
BTW didn't we intervene to keep Soviet communism out of Greece after WWII. In your view was American intervention in Greece good, bad, indifferent or a fictitious event concocted by revisionists? I ask sincerely as the Marshal Plan is touched on in European History classes in the US, but the mechanics are not discussed. The opportunity to learn is one of the strongest attractions of Rantburg.

Posted by Super Hose 2004-08-24 10:41:50 PM|| 2004-08-24 10:41:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Aris: I'm going to say that right now, I don't really know that much about the situation, and won't until I see Saakashvili's statements from somewhere *other* than the Russian press; I hadn't followed the link earlier to know it was at Mosnews.com.

I have been scanning Pravda occasionally and find the reportage there both worrying and interesting, as in the old Chinese curse.

I don't think "we" in the US or NATO in general are in a good position to help Georgia if Georgia and Russia were to go to war. I had thought that Abkhazia and South Ossetia were both already lost causes, and think that the Georgians might want to retrench and possibly attempt to fortify a "core" rather than try to retake South Ossetia, which it sounded like Saakashvili was proposing. And I find Russia's recent actions somewhat creepy; they seem to be willing to arm their probable enemies (Iran) with WMD just to be able to pretend they're still a global superpower still capable of tweaking the nose of the great satan.

(And I doubt a "deal" re: Iran for Georgia would be likely, because Iran's too far down the road towards the bomb; they have the Pakistani/Malaysian centrifuges and access to other sources of uranium now.)

I wasn't suggesting the Georgians surrender; I was suggesting they stall for time. Although I'm looking at maps and such right now, to try to figure out how tenable the situation is.

Can you tell me how their relations are with Armenia, Azerbajan, and Turkey? (Of course, Turkey's a member of NATO... I guess...)

Posted by Phil Fraering 2004-08-24 10:45:53 PM|| [http://newsfromthefridge.typepad.com] 2004-08-24 10:45:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Super Hose> "I thought American intervetion was bad. "

Really? Well, we differ on that. I always judge interventions on a case-by-case basis.

"BTW didn't we intervene to keep Soviet communism out of Greece after WWII. In your view was American intervention in Greece good, bad, indifferent or a fictitious event concocted by revisionists"

When you "intervened" to prop up democratic governments in Greece against the communists, that was good and US was acting as liberators. When you "intervened" to prop up a dictatorship against the democratic governments, that was bad and US was acting as imperialistic tyrants, the same way the Soviet Union was acting in East Europe.

The fact that the US didn't seem to see a difference between the two, shows that freedom wasn't very high on their priority lists, having US-friendly goverments around was. Same as in the Latin America.

Phil> Armenia seems to be a part of the Russian axis, to the point of being aided by Iran in its war against muslim Azerbaijan, which from what I gather seems a bit more western-leaning but it hasn't been able to hold even its own territory, let alone be in a position to help Georgia.

Turkey on the other hand would probably be on the side of Georgia, though I doubt it would be anything other than moral support.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-08-25 8:30:11 AM|| 2004-08-25 8:30:11 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 Yep my Greek friend, right you are, Turkey would be siding Georgia (by heart) but stay neutral since Russia is one of its biggest trading partners. I think the Georgian leader wants to attrack the attention of the world rather than fighting Russia.

Posted by Murat 2004-08-25 9:04:45 AM|| 2004-08-25 9:04:45 AM|| Front Page Top

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