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2004-08-12 Iraq-Jordan
Moslem Family Honorably Guarantees Daughter's Safety, Then Kills Her
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Posted by Mike Sylwester 2004-08-12 8:20:08 AM|| || Front Page|| [11138 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 I remember when Oprah had the Queen of Jordan on right after 9-11. The Queen had a lovely smile and kept up the 'Moslems are like Christians with veils' spin. As the show was ending, Oprah asked about honor killings. 'Oh, that is ethnic, not Islamic and just about gone' said the Queen.
Posted by mhw 2004-08-12 08:42||   2004-08-12 08:42|| Front Page Top

#2 You know, I'd have a hard time beliving this shit actually happens... if I didn't read about it every fuckin' day.
Posted by tu3031 2004-08-12 08:48||   2004-08-12 08:48|| Front Page Top

#3 "Initially the woman’s brothers named Sirrus and Achenar tried to shoot her to death inside the family home with the gun but she ran out to the street to ask for help, the source said."
You promised them she'd be safe! What a Lucifer-distorted definiton of honor!

"As the show was ending, Oprah asked about honor killings. 'Oh, that is ethnic, not Islamic and just about gone' said the Queen."
Then her lips fell off.
Posted by Korora">Korora  2004-08-12 09:39|| http://basementburrow.blogspot.com]">[http://basementburrow.blogspot.com]  2004-08-12 09:39|| Front Page Top

#4 So far this year, only seven have been killed, according to official statistics. How many murders have occurred without official acknowledgement? How many "fell down the stairs", "burned themselves to death while cooking", "committed suicide by taking poison", et al?
Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei  2004-08-12 09:47|| http://www.polipundit.com]">[http://www.polipundit.com]  2004-08-12 09:47|| Front Page Top

#5 Cultural huh? Culturally, the Christians of Jordan are Arabs just like the Moslems and yet its funny that they don't honor kill their female family members.

Culturally Sihks, Hindus and Muslims are quite similar and yet their ability to assimilate into other cultures and to live peacefully are also different.

I used to think highly of Queen Noor until I actually had the chance to really listen to her elegantly articulated smiley upper crust racist views.

I was watching her on Larry King once and she managed to very very slickly blame all of the middle east's problems on the Jews. She was talking about how the Middle East was progressing nicely towards democracy and high acheivement etc, then the Jooooos came and derailed everything getting the A-rabs so damn upset that they could no longer be responsible for their rage and seething and couldn't be blamed for shooting themselves in the foot and soiling their own nests and basically destroying themselves etc.

Ok, so the above is something of a paraphrase. The first part about the Arabs being just fine until the Jews derailed their development is hers and the rest of the sentence after that is what I filled into the blanks, yelling at the TV, once I got her oh so unsubtle gist.

Jordan is progressive my a**. I once swallowed that bunk coming from the major news outlets. Now a days I know that the royal family of Jordan is just like that freaky slimy reptilian spokesman for Saudi Arabia, whatshisface. They are a bunch of smiley seemingly civilized apologists for mid-evil barbarism. *shudder*. Vile.

It doesn't surprise me either that the same country where someone can be considered an unfit parent based solely on thier religion and sex is also one of the leading honor killing countries in the world.

Jordan- yet another modern progessive Middle Eastern success story....

Posted by peggy ">peggy  2004-08-12 10:10||   2004-08-12 10:10|| Front Page Top

#6 So the family signed a letter guaranteeing her safety, then allowed her to be beaten to death. What were the repercussions to them for violating their obligation? Were there any? The article didn't say.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-08-12 11:00||   2004-08-12 11:00|| Front Page Top

#7 You foolish little people simply don't understand the nuances of their fascinating culture. Don't worry, though; when I'm elected president there will be no more honor killings.... or nuclear waste.... or breast cancer....
Posted by John Kerry 2004-08-12 11:59||   2004-08-12 11:59|| Front Page Top

#8 But plenty of whirled peas, I'd bet.
Posted by .com 2004-08-12 12:01||   2004-08-12 12:01|| Front Page Top

#9 So John, how far does this rabbit hole of yours go?
Posted by 2% 2004-08-12 12:09||   2004-08-12 12:09|| Front Page Top

#10 A nation should not be judged by the mistakes of a few. I'm trying to explain that muslims do NOT think honor killings are justified.
A muslim might ask if your being so liberal allowes Incest. WHY would special hotlines be set up for such crimes if they were not done every minute of every day? Though both crimes are wrong, take some time to think which is worse: A nation that bases it's crimes on lust, greed, and vengance, or a nation that bases it's crimes on honor, truth, and salvation. Both are totally screwed up, but with one we feel disguted and outraged, while a little understanding sprinkles our outrage with the other.
Posted by Gentle 2004-08-12 12:17||   2004-08-12 12:17|| Front Page Top

#11 "muslims do NOT think honor killings are justified"

They don't?

Funny, I don't recall any "honor killings" by any OTHER sick fucking twisted "religion" lately. Odd, that.
Posted by .com 2004-08-12 12:19||   2004-08-12 12:19|| Front Page Top

#12 I do though! You should try reading more. It makes you escape embarrassing situations like this one, where you discover that you are WRONG.
Posted by Gentle 2004-08-12 12:23||   2004-08-12 12:23|| Front Page Top

#13 Proof, Twinkle? I see no proof in your post, just your usual twittering.
Posted by .com 2004-08-12 12:24||   2004-08-12 12:24|| Front Page Top

#14 Gentle-I suppose there is an example to go with this? (thats not 200+ years ago)
Posted by 2% 2004-08-12 12:26||   2004-08-12 12:26|| Front Page Top

#15 antiwar?
Posted by muck4doo 2004-08-12 12:27|| http://www.meatismurder.blogspot.com]">[http://www.meatismurder.blogspot.com]  2004-08-12 12:27|| Front Page Top

#16 Ah yes, more of that fatherly love you were talkin' about Gentle? feh.
Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-08-12 13:12||   2004-08-12 13:12|| Front Page Top

#17 And still no relevant proof from Twinkle.
Posted by .com 2004-08-12 13:19||   2004-08-12 13:19|| Front Page Top

#18 Incest is a crime committed in the dark corners, very much out of sight. No one trumpets the fact. No one expects to be admired or understood for committing incest. Society at large will not accept excuses for a father who uses a daughter in such a way. Get caught for it in the Western world, and you are universally reviled. Even the person who commits the crime typically admits to be a *#&@ lowlife.

Honor killing is often done brazenly in public. There is no attempt at concealment or escape. What can that say except the assailants expect some degree of understanding from the general community, even if they don't escape prosecution. If I recall correctly, in the UK a Kurdish(?) man argued that honor killing was just part of his culture (thank goodness that defense failed).

Perhaps most Muslims don't approve of honor killings, just the same way most of them don't approve of terrorism or corruption or cronyism. Funny thing is, though, we here in the U.S. don't see a lot of deeds to back up the half-hearted rhetoric.

By the way, the tactic of responding to criticism by pointing out someone else's shortcomings might be useful for debate, but it sure sucks for self-improvement.

Hey, Dot, I didn't get a chance to thank you for the link to the Coyote Rocket game.
Posted by dreadnought 2004-08-12 13:52||   2004-08-12 13:52|| Front Page Top

#19 Gentle- the disgusting apologist for a weak misogynist sub-culture, soon to be cleansed
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2004-08-12 14:01||   2004-08-12 14:01|| Front Page Top

#20 dreadnought - Welcome :)

One point in your post I'd like to respond to:
"just the same way most of them don't approve of terrorism or corruption or cronyism"

Actually, where cronyism is part and parcel with nepotism and despotism, they do. It is absolutely part of the Arab culture (at least in the Gulf States) - family/clan/tribe is the mantra. Where corruption, as we define it, overlaps, then it, too, is the norm. And "baksheesh" - bribery - is so common it's also the norm. They are not us. Comparisons, without keeping the very real differences in mind, are often far too kind to them. By our standards, they're truly corrupt, IMHO. Just $0.02 of observation.
Posted by .com 2004-08-12 14:04||   2004-08-12 14:04|| Front Page Top

#21 Dot, on the cronyism and corruption part, I should have made it clear that they don't approve when they're on the wrong side of the tribal tracks, and in their system, someone is always on the wrong side. The Shia disgust with Sadaam was two-fold. The first, obviously, was that no one enjoys being slaughtered. The second is that Sadaam's clan shut them out of all the wealth.
Posted by dreadnought 2004-08-12 4:07:22 PM||   2004-08-12 4:07:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Indeed! Saddam (Hussein was actually his father's "given" name)...

Family: al-Majid
Clan: al-Tikriti
Tribe: al-Nasseri
Flavor: Sunni

That was the pecking order that got the goodies.
Posted by .com 2004-08-12 4:19:20 PM||   2004-08-12 4:19:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Gentle-
Rape and incest in the US-punish/ostracize the criminal
Rape and incest in the Muslim Middle East-deny it happened; punish/ostracize the victim.

The West and Islam are WORLDS apart in how you deal with sick human behavior.
Posted by jules 187 2004-08-12 4:32:05 PM||   2004-08-12 4:32:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Gentle, if you truly are an Emirati female, then you have my deep and sincere pity, for you are a slave. Worse, you're a slave defending your overseers.

As Jules and others have said, Western society has moved past blaming the victim for sexual assault. The handful of Neanderthal throwbacks who cling to such ugliness are not merely criminals; they are, by definition, freaks fit only to be paraded on the contemporary freakshows of afternoon television. (That may escape you if you're an Emirati, and I'd say you're lucky ... if I didn't know what your afternoon viewing options consisted of instead.)

Blaming the victim ... no, that's too overspecific ... blaming women for all sexcrimes remains mainstream, sanctioned, and indeed a criterion for ethical conduct in the Mideast.

Arguably more important, we are decades past the point where our leaders feel the need to lie to foreign audiences about the problem's existence.

Free yourself. Abandon Islam. It is a necrophiliac religion for angry, frustrated young men who wish only for death. The timid, browbeaten women of Islam can choose better (both in faith and in men). If you truly care about yourself, your children, and your people, then escape the Death Cult. Kill it before it kills you.
Posted by Another Dan 2004-08-12 5:41:07 PM||   2004-08-12 5:41:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Honor killings:
Haiti, where Article 269 of the Penal Code states that "in the case of adultery as provided for in Article 284, the murder by a husband of his wife and/or her partner, immediately upon discovering them in flagrante delicto in the conjugal abode, is to be pardoned."
In two Latin American countries, similar laws were struck down over the past two decades: according to human rights lawyer Julie Mertus "in Brazil, until 1991 wife killings were considered to be noncriminal "honor killings"; in just one year, nearly eight hundred husbands killed their wives. Similarly, in Colombia, until 1980, a husband legally could kill his wife for committing adultery."
Posted by Gentle 2004-08-13 4:51:00 AM||   2004-08-13 4:51:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#26 Gentle - Haiti's also the home of voodoo. But I'd agree with you that regarding women's rights sharia societies are somewhere well behind the worst parts of South America. I'm sure you'll catch up sooner rather than later.
Posted by Bulldog  2004-08-13 5:06:35 AM||   2004-08-13 5:06:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#27 Honor killings have been forbidden by Islamic law for over 14oo years. THAT does not mean they have stopped, just like the issuing of those laws in 1980 does not mean that the crimes stopped.
Posted by Gentle 2004-08-13 5:10:25 AM||   2004-08-13 5:10:25 AM|| Front Page Top

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