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2004-08-11 Home Front: Politix

Reform Jews say Bush and Congress are too pro Israel

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Posted by mhw 2004-08-11 11:42:13 AM|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 The bottom line here is that liberals never learn.

Even though Israleis get whacked by Islamic throwbacks constantly, there is a pacifist PC element that always wants to "understand" the terrorists.

More "Why do they hate us?" syndrome suffering. That's all...

Posted by BigEd 2004-08-11 12:31|| 2004-08-11 12:31|| Front Page Top

#2 Another classic case of Robert Frost's definition of a liberal:

"A liberal is a man who won't take his own side in an argument."

Posted by dreadnought 2004-08-11 13:29|| 2004-08-11 13:29|| Front Page Top

#3 It was only recently (in the last 10 years or so, IIUC) that the Reform movement even admitted that as Jews they might have a connection to Israel. One of the bases of the movement in this country was "Jewish Americans, not American Jews."

I don't get it, but for my parents antisemitism meant a bit more than name calling.

Idiots.

Posted by trailing wife 2004-08-11 13:38|| 2004-08-11 13:38|| Front Page Top

#4 tw - im quite sure the centenial platform, in 1978 (?) recongized a role for Israel in Judaism, though i dont have it handy. And certainly prior to that individual Reform rabbis played an active role as Zionists, notably R. Steven Wise and R. Abba Hillel Silver.

Note, I am NOT now Reform, but theyre not as bad as theyre made out to be.

Side note - OCR wars come to Rantburg? :(

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-11 13:58|| 2004-08-11 13:58|| Front Page Top

#5 What does that mean, TOO pro-Israel? That Bush and Congress won't listen to criticism on Israeli policy? Maybe these "reformers" need to think about that a bit. Maybe they need to examine whether what they are saying is sensible, realistic, and constructive, and whether it applies the same standards for self-defense for Israel as apply to the US. Americans will never accept the intifada as legitimate resistance or political expression-it is simply a self-congratulating excuse for murdering a people. If the reformers want a more sympathetic ear in Congress and with Bush, they need to push Palestinians to bear their part of the burden in the Peace Plan by ending all suicide bombings. Until then, we can't hear you.

Posted by jules 187 2004-08-11 13:59|| 2004-08-11 13:59|| Front Page Top

#6 what is OCR?

Posted by anon 2004-08-11 15:00|| 2004-08-11 15:00|| Front Page Top

#7 Yep, start up the orchestra in front of the gas chamber. That will solve the problem.

Posted by VRWconspiracy 2004-08-11 15:24|| 2004-08-11 15:24|| Front Page Top

#8 OCR orthodox-conservative-reform = the vicioous flamewars that were consuming soc.culture.judaism, and, IIRC helped lead to the formation of soc.culture.judaism.moderated.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-11 15:28|| 2004-08-11 15:28|| Front Page Top

#9 Oh! that OCR
take heart LH i remember the dark times in soc.culture.reading.picturesbooks.cannine.godoggo

Posted by Half 2004-08-11 16:26|| 2004-08-11 16:26|| Front Page Top

#10 Sounds like "Catholic American" versus "American Catholic" ...

Posted by Edward Yee">Edward Yee 2004-08-11 16:45|| http://edwardyee.fanworks.net]">[http://edwardyee.fanworks.net] 2004-08-11 16:45|| Front Page Top

#11 Liberal Hawk -- I spoke with the rabbi this afternoon (#2 daughter's bat mitvah is now on the calendar!) and she said the Reform movement accepted Zionism 30-40 years ago, so you are probably right. Just for the record, I'm not Reform either -- reared as a freethinker in a Conservative synagogue -- but that's where my non-Jewish husband is most comfortable. He sings the Hebrew prayers most beautifully, and knows more about the religion than many of the "natives."

For the rest a very brief and incomplete summary, with no insult intended, so please don't anyone get mad, ok? In chronological order:

Orthodox: original rabbinic Judaism, going back to before Jesus. Kosher means separate dishes for meat and milk, walk to synagogue on the Sabbath, the most rigorous Hebrew School with an emphasis on Bible and Talmud studies. Charity and good works required by God, both within the community and in the wider world.

Chassid: East European ultra orthodox mystics, the ones in NYC with the side curls and black coats, their wives wear wigs, they are a good hearted cult in my humble opinion, but happy. Make available to outsiders free Hebrew School for the kids, matzah at Passover, invite all to join them for services at the synagogue, Sabbath and holiday dinners.

Reform: reject the "unnecessary hedge of customs" that had grown up over the centuries. Pray in the local language, only started teaching the kids Hebrew in this generation, for a long time refused any connection to Israel. Started in the 19th century in Germany, but blossomed here, where I understand it is the largest branch of Judaism. Fond of bacon and lobster with drawn butter in a restaurant for lunch on Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement, when Jews are supposed to fast). Tikkun Olam (healing the world) is their watchword, which plays neatly into a liberal outlook.

Conservative: American compromise between the Orthodox and Reform. Modern Hebrew taught for reading Israeli poetry/prose as well as Bible and prayers, Zionist, kosher more likely means just not eating things like pork and shellfish, or separate meat/milk dishes at home but pork chops in a restaurant (no, I can't explain it!). Again charity and good works not just required but expected.

Then there are the Reconstructionists (a 60's movement like unto the Unitarians), Jewish agnostics (happy to argue with God until He proves that He does or does not exist), "Born-again" Jewish Christians (they think they are still Jewish, we disagree), Jewish atheists (they think....as above), and then we get to the real splinter groups!

If you have any questions, Jarhead has been reading Diamont on the subject, and probably knows more than I do by now, so ask him ;-)

Posted by trailing wife 2004-08-12 00:40|| 2004-08-12 00:40|| Front Page Top

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