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2004-08-11 Home Front: WoT
A Wahhabi Crack-Up in America?
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Posted by tipper 2004-08-11 06:14|| || Front Page|| [11136 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 I never agree with Stephen Schwartz. Sure, he’s a great writer and you learn all kinds of things reading him. But the conclusions he draws from the information he provides is always batty.

This article is the perfect example.

Yet even some of the hard-core apologists for Islamic radicalism may have begun to feel uncomfortable with their bought-and-paid-for Wahhabi agenda. Early in August, the Islamic Saudi Academy (ISA) with campuses in Alexandria and Fairfax, Va., came in for criticism from the Free Muslim Coalition Against Terrorism (www.freemuslims.org), a new group headed by Kamal Nawash. Nawash is a local attorney of Palestinian origin and was an unsuccessful Republican candidate for the Virginia House of Delegates in 2001 and for the state senate in 2003

Here’s my conclusion, Stephen: The Wahhabi lobby isn’t cracking, it’s just throwing another sheepskin on top of itself hoping we won’t notice it’s big ears, pointy nose and sharp teeth.
Posted by B 2004-08-11 10:50||   2004-08-11 10:50|| Front Page Top

#2 I consider myself not to be a bigot, but....

Near where I live there is one of these "Islamic Centers". The property backs up to a regular shopping center, with the requisite Supermarlet, McDonalds, Blockbuster Video rental, etc.

Frequently you see some of these wahabis trolling around. They gotta eat, I guess. The "boys" get to dress normally, but at about 13 the girls start their enforced burkazation. So you see burkas in Cypress, Orange County, California, in the Stater Bros parking lot. Um, I am all for religious freedom, but owing to the history of these folks what is in my mind. Woman in a burka in the US. Husband an al-Qaeda. It is now become automatic since not only 9/11, but with events afterwards as well. Frankly, this place should be watched, since according to reports wahabism is on the rise.

So - on Ball Road in Cypress, 1/2 block west of Valley View, there is this "Islamic Center". The burka'd women are seen at the stores in the shopping center next door. Be aware.
Posted by BigEd 2004-08-11 10:53||   2004-08-11 10:53|| Front Page Top

#3 B - if theyre adding a new sheepskin theyve been doing it for years, since Nawash has been a Republican for years, since before 2000 at least.

Biged - and what makes you think theyre NOT being watched?
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-11 11:00||   2004-08-11 11:00|| Front Page Top

#4 I just want to know if anyone can tell which ones are hot.

As for Nawash and similar, they are taking the long view - as was clearly stated by the hubbie in the story the other day about the dippy girl who "married into Islam" - however long it takes. Electing some asshat like Nawash, and he is an asshat because he is a Muslim (I AM an Islam bigot because the actual evidence point in only one direction - fuck their words - dissuade me with actions, asshats) is more of the "camel's nose under the tent" - as was said yesterday. From within, destruction of institutions via numerous means is much simpler. Fuck that noise.

Someday, "Islamic Centers" will be called something else.
Posted by .com 2004-08-11 11:11||   2004-08-11 11:11|| Front Page Top

#5 LH..I wasn’t talking just about Nawash, I was talking about the article as a whole. It gives multiple examples of “surprising” things that the Wahhabi lobby has done and then comes to the strange conclusion that the Wahhabi lobby is cracking. There is little in the article to indicate the lobby isn’t up to the same business as ususal. Read the article please.

You seem delighted that Nawash was a Republican. As if the fact that Saudi-funded Wahhabi lobby was able slip a few under the wire to buy influence in the Republican party is more meaningful than their ability to purchase even more influence in the Democratic party. When comparing GOP to Dim’s you might want to pull the Dem’s mob-connected, Cynthia McKinney log out of your own eye before you start to snicker.

I find it really astounding that Jews are willing to vote Democratic when the Dems are dancing so close with the devil of virulent anti-Semitism these days.

You might find it interesting to note that the most shocking Jewish hatred I hear in polite society these days is from the Anybody But Bush crowd. It’s usually disguised as “Anti-Israel”, but that line is razor thin.

Yes, I’ve heard bigoted statements from the right too, but what I find most disturbing is that on the left side, laughing at anti-Semitic sniping is becoming more accepted and for reasons completely unclear to me those making the offending comments are granted the stamp of brave and cutting, whereas on the right, such comments are generally greeted as one might greet an audible fart.

I also find it strange that the Jewish people I know don’t seem to realize that the Any Body But Bush crowd has adopted a very disturbing sense of humor about Jews these days. It might be time for Jewish Americans to take a good long look at the party that slaps them on the back when they are facing them and sticks the knife in when they turn away.
Posted by B 2004-08-11 11:58||   2004-08-11 11:58|| Front Page Top

#6 actually B, youve got me wrong. I didnt mean to use Nawash in some Michael Moorish way as an example of eveel Repub saudi loving - I only meant that AFAIK Nawash is a sincere Republican, and NOT a Saudi spy - hes probably Repub for the same reasons lots of Chinese and Mexican immigrants are - hes probably a successful businessman who wants lower taxes - that tends to be what politics is about in Virginia, not the status of KSA or the West Bank. Just a regular guy who happens to be muslim, and happens to be Repub. I wasnt snickering at Repubs, just reminding people that most American muslims are regular guys, which i take it is largely Schwartz's point. You quoted the part about Nawash before you sheepskin comment, so I thought you were indicating Nawash is some sort of secret agent, which AFAIK he aint.

As for Jews, this is a real old debate in the Jewish community - should we vote only on the middle east and antisemitism, or on mainly american issues. Whatever some may say, most Jews are driven be domestic considerations, just like other Americans. In any case Im not up for a long discussion of Jewish voting patterns, or ranting against different political parties.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-11 13:03||   2004-08-11 13:03|| Front Page Top

#7 fair enough..LH. But let me just say that considering how quickly things turned sour in Germany (after Hitler was elected, the pogroms began within weeks..not years), and, I hesitate to say this as it sounds so negative, but considering the alarming climate of anti-Semitism from the ABB/Cynthia McKinney/Al Sharpton/Jessie Jackson/Michael Moore crowd, maybe this is one election where American Jews might want to worry less about homosexual marriage, abortion and focus more on the frightening climate of rising anti-Semitism. The things I'm hearing from the ABB crowd truly shock and truly disturb me.

It seems to that many Jews are still stuck on the past when they were made to feel outside the Christian majority prior to the 60's and they are still busy grinding that axe, while an incoming wmd is headed straight towards them. It might be time to notice that the Democratic party seems just a wee bit too willing to provide the correct coordinates.

As in other aspects of this world, maybe it's time to reevaluate past alliances. Take a look at the headliners in the Democratic party ...and if you are honest with yourself...it should trouble you.

JMHO.
Posted by B 2004-08-11 13:31||   2004-08-11 13:31|| Front Page Top

#8 and once again, I am not going to discuss Jewish political views on this forum, for the same reason i try to avoid domestic politics generally on this board - im too isolated, theres too much flaming, etc. This is a place thats useful for discussing Iraq, AQ, and occasionally Islam. The hate makes it impossible to talk sanely about domestic politics. Im not going to get into which side started the hate, or whos worse. I wouldnt discuss domestic politics on moveon.org either.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-11 14:04||   2004-08-11 14:04|| Front Page Top

#9 We don't have that luxury, Liberalhawk.
This is a 2 front war--there's the "real war" of combat overseas and the culture war here at home.
GET USED TO IT.
If you don't think the Dim Libs war on Conservatives and the Bush Administration at home is helping the Enemy in Iraq, check out the latest essay by Steven Den Beste:
Terrorism
Posted by GreatestJeneration">GreatestJeneration  2004-08-11 14:30|| http://www.greatestjeneration.com]">[http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-08-11 14:30|| Front Page Top

#10 I will discuss here what i think this site is useful for discussing, as long as the owner allows me.

I would remind everyone that this is a thread about Steven Schwartz article on Wahabism in the US. It is NOT about Dems and Repubs. We got to that only because B misinterpreted my comment on VA local politician (understandably, I was not all that clear) B seems to want to engage me on Jewish voting patterns. I have politely, i think, explained why i dont choose to discuss those here. I would really appreciate it if everyone would let go, and keep to the thread topic. If you want to discuss voting patterns of different ethnic and religious groups im sure you can find an appropriate thread.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-11 14:48||   2004-08-11 14:48|| Front Page Top

#11 Hmm..I wasn't asking you to discuss Jewish political views. One reason is that I don't believe any one particular person represents the views of an entire group.

Secondly...I was just making a point that might be worth your time, as an individual, to consider.

At some point, the Jewish community is going to have to come to terms with the obvious fact that the Democratic party has coopted the Republican party as the party of "shame and blame". And you have to be in a pretty serious state of denial not to notice that the object of the Democrats shame and blame has conveniently morphed from white, conservative, Christians, ... to white conservative Christians who are controlled by the Jews. How do I know that? I suffer through daily rantings from the ABB crowd.

So welcome to the party of people viewed by today's "liberals" as being responsible for every hungry child and every victim of war. Thinking they don't mean you, but rather Israeli's proper, is denial at best and.... considering the past... a potentially very dangerous miscalculation.
Posted by B 2004-08-11 14:51||   2004-08-11 14:51|| Front Page Top

#12 Very Clintonian of you to want to keep it all compartmentalized, Lh.
President Bush is the best thing that's happened to Israel in a long time and he's changed the conversation in the Middle East forever from one of fruitless "talks" to productive action.
I heard from a reliable source that 30% of Jews will be voting for him--quite right!
As the Bible says, "He who blesses Israel,I [God] will bless..."
Posted by GreatestJeneration">GreatestJeneration  2004-08-11 14:54|| http://www.greatestjeneration.com]">[http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-08-11 14:54|| Front Page Top

#13 I think you can rest assured that in deciding how to vote i have included all relevant considerations.

Now once again I remind you that this thread is about Schwartz's article, NOT about who LH plans to vote for.

My parents taught me that when somebody says they dont want to discuss something, especially when its something about them, its rude to persist. Quite frankly, if this were a Jewish board, and I encountered someone rudely and obsessively trying to persuade me of something about me personally, when im clearly not interested in discussing the subject at all, Id conclude that they were particularly unassimilated, possibly ultra-Orthodox Jews, since thats a behavior that is more widespread among unassimilated Eastern european jewish immigrants than among Americanized Jews. As a WESTERNIZED American, with Western notions of politeness and individualism and privacy. im gonna have to just say - buzz off, none of your beeswax.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-11 14:58||   2004-08-11 14:58|| Front Page Top

#14 That would be valid, Liberalhawk, if this were your board and you were the only person here we were talking to, but with over 600 people on line right now, that's hardly the case.
Posted by GreatestJeneration">GreatestJeneration  2004-08-11 15:01|| http://www.greatestjeneration.com]">[http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-08-11 15:01|| Front Page Top

#15 Very Clintonian of you to want to keep it all compartmentalized, Lh.

keeping things compartmentalized isnt clintonian, its the essence of internet ettiquette. Theres a reason threads here have titles, you know. Some of us want to talk about the actions of the 1st cavalry, some want to talk about the nuances of Pakistani politics, and some want to rant about Bush and Kerry. While these topics sometimes naturally lead to each other ( a discussion of Pakistani politics might raise the question of whether Kerry has a Pakistani policy) to intrude with whatever you feel like talking about wherever you feel like it is rude - it wastes everyone elses time, and the sites bandwidth.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-11 15:03||   2004-08-11 15:03|| Front Page Top

#16 GJ: but B was specifically addressing me as an individual, which is why i responded to him as an individual.

In any case, whoever is looking at a thread about the Wahabi crackup is presumably looking for info on the wahabi crackup, NOT on which political party is "good for the Jews".

Ok - no one is posting ANYTHING in this thread on Wahabism. Im simply going to ignore it.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-11 15:08||   2004-08-11 15:08|| Front Page Top

#17 Lame.
Posted by B 2004-08-11 15:08||   2004-08-11 15:08|| Front Page Top

#18 BTW, LH, since you consider yourself to be the polite patrol the board....here's a tip: if you don't want to discuss a topic, IGNORE it.

That would be considered more polite than pointing fingers and screeching that by simply addresing you, I was rude. And doesn't it seem a bit absurd for you to make the accusation that I was somehow forcing you to post against your will.

Jeesh..get a grip.
Posted by B 2004-08-11 15:16||   2004-08-11 15:16|| Front Page Top

#19 I think Liberalhawk was more concerned that you were forcing him to vote against his will.
Posted by anon 2004-08-11 15:23||   2004-08-11 15:23|| Front Page Top

#20 "anon"--Think you nailed it.

Remember the Saudi prince who tried to give Rudy a $10 million check for the 9/11 victims if the US would change its "policies?"
(meaningfully meaning towards being against Israel?)
Rudy told him to "Shove it!"--good thing, too.
What our Democrat pal Liberalhawk is refusing to acknowledge is that "all roads lead back to Rome."
Whether we are talking about our support for Israel, combat in Iraq, preventing attacks here or getting Al Queda and Waahabism out of the country and off the globe, the enemy and the problem is still the same: Islamist/Islamic terrorism.
Posted by GreatestJeneration">GreatestJeneration  2004-08-11 15:31|| http://www.greatestjeneration.com]">[http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-08-11 15:31|| Front Page Top

#21 I just want to know if anyone can tell which ones are hot.

.com, they don't want you to be able to "tell which ones are hot." That's why they make their women wear the burkha!
Posted by Zenster 2004-08-11 15:47||   2004-08-11 15:47|| Front Page Top

#22 I'm not sure how Mr. Schwartz came to his conclusions. A slightly more cynical writer might conclude from all this was that was more a matter of 'survival' for the groups and apologists, rather than a twinge of conscience and a revulsion of the Sudanese atrocities.
Posted by Pappy 2004-08-11 15:48||   2004-08-11 15:48|| Front Page Top

#23 here's a tip: if you don't want to discuss a topic, IGNORE it.

classic troll response. So what if Im posting on Soc.christianity.episcopalianism, why shouldnt i post my thread about Pakistani politics - after all anyone who isnt interested can just ignore it, right???

Look, weve got thread titles here. The owners have established categories - including one called Homefront:Politics, and one called Homefront:culture wars. Theyve even established seperate pages for broad categories.

But, no, I'll go post anything I want anywhere, no matter how off topic, and anyone who doesnt want to read it can just ignore it.




Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-11 15:50||   2004-08-11 15:50|| Front Page Top

#24 It’s the ultimate irony, isn’t it liberalhawk? …..that you that you are wasting bandwidth and deviating from the topic to shake your finger at me for wasting bandwidth.
Posted by B 2004-08-11 16:01||   2004-08-11 16:01|| Front Page Top

#25 It’s the ultimate irony, isn’t it liberalhawk? …..that you that you are wasting bandwidth and deviating from the topic to shake your finger at me for wasting bandwidth.

another classic troll response.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-11 16:03||   2004-08-11 16:03|| Front Page Top

#26 B & Jen, you both sound like a couple of spoiled children w/respect to LH in this thread (not a blanket condemnation). LH, why you continue to respond to them is beyond me.

B I agree that Schwart's conclusion is a leap. There is no cracking of the Wahhabist locus of power in this country. Money supports religious expansion. The Wahabs have the money.
Posted by remote man 2004-08-11 16:05||   2004-08-11 16:05|| Front Page Top

#27 excuse me remote man...I'm not usually give to flame wars, but I think you should go back and read the exchange before you join the fray.

Yes, I made the mistake of engaging Liberalhawk, something I usually refrain from doing, just for this very reason. My original posts were thoughtful and polite, if not on topic or even agreeable by liberalhawks standards. Nor was Jen's post rude.

Since when is sliding off topic cause for the type of self-righteous victimization displayed by liberalhawk in this exchange? And then he goes off on in a “I know you are a troll but what am I” rant and you blame Jen and I?

Please. I’m done with this flame war. And liberalhawk..don’t worry, I won’t address you again
Posted by B 2004-08-11 16:31||   2004-08-11 16:31|| Front Page Top

#28 B & Jen, you both sound like a couple of spoiled children w/respect to LH in this thread (not a blanket condemnation). LH, why you continue to respond to them is beyond me.

This place is going to become useless between now and the election if anyone feels they can post about US domestic politics in any thread.
Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-08-11 16:36||   2004-08-11 16:36|| Front Page Top

#29 Liberalhawk you don’t seem to grasp that you are the one wasting bandwidth now.

B: re: self-righteous victimization

What else did you expect from a person with "liberal" in their hat?
Posted by anon 2004-08-11 16:40||   2004-08-11 16:40|| Front Page Top

#30 Thanks, B--I thought we were both civil and polite, too.

Some people here--no names need be mentioned--want to live in a 9/10/01 dreamworld when America (thought it) could obsess over its domestic problems without considering that it applied to the rest of the world and that "foreign" problems like Waahabism weren't ever going to bother us here at home.
Good luck to them.
The rest of us will deal with reality.
Posted by GreatestJeneration">GreatestJeneration  2004-08-11 16:42|| http://www.greatestjeneration.com]">[http://www.greatestjeneration.com]  2004-08-11 16:42|| Front Page Top

#31 amen, Jen. You are right about this: “Whether we are talking about our support for Israel, combat in Iraq, preventing attacks here or getting Al Queda and Waahabism out of the country and off the globe, the enemy and the problem is still the same: Islamist/Islamic terrorism.”

We need to keep that in perspective at all times.

anon..thanks!
Posted by B 2004-08-11 16:54||   2004-08-11 16:54|| Front Page Top

#32 "another classic troll response."

Pot, Kettle. Kettle, Pot.

Anon6056
Posted by Anonymous6056 2004-08-11 22:10||   2004-08-11 22:10|| Front Page Top

#33 Pot, Kettle. Kettle, Pot

lol! Actually, I'm a little embarrassed. Hey LH, if your still around, I'll extend an olive branch from one rantburger to another.

I'm sorry if I touched a nerve. I just find the hate and propaganda of the Michael Moore crowd to be upsetting, but if you don't want to go there, that's your right. I apologize.
Posted by B 2004-08-11 23:09||   2004-08-11 23:09|| Front Page Top

10:01 jules 187
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