Article

2004-05-12 Iraq-Jordan

Japan worried Dutch will leave Iraq, leaving GSDF

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Posted by Murat 2004-05-12 8:32:16 AM|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Hey, at least they're not trying to keep Iraq a violent hell hole like the Turks are.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-05-12 11:48:39 AM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2004-05-12 11:48:39 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Move the Japanese to Free Kurdistan. There will be plenty of Kurds willing to provide security.

Posted by ed 2004-05-12 12:06:48 PM|| 2004-05-12 12:06:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Turkey = France = backstabbing bastards

Posted by docob 2004-05-12 12:15:22 PM|| 2004-05-12 12:15:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 That's right Docob, and Turkey was backstabbed by the EU after supporting their cause over ours.

Posted by Charles 2004-05-12 12:35:44 PM|| 2004-05-12 12:35:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 notice the change in tone here, Murat? Remember how rantburger's used to give Turkey the benefit of the doubt? Used to say their military will step in, used to say they are more "modern" than other Islamic countries. Used to say how "democracy" works in Turkey.

Notice how you don't hear that anymore?? Now they just think you are another Islamic sink hole...not as bad as the others..but given time I'm sure your country won't disappoint. At least I think that's true, since I've only started paying attention to your country since 911 and you are the only Turk I know.

I said long before your country stabbed us in the back, that I could see it coming. I think I saw it because I didn't have the same preconceived notions as those who remember the Turkey that was more secular and less fanatically Islamic than it is now. Thus, I could see the back-stab coming from a mile away.

Just FYI, this change in tone you see, on rantburg, in Lilkes, and creeping it's way into polite society repesents America as a whole. You see our media and read our papers and think that we are the same America we used to be - just like some rantburgers still think Turkey is the same old Turkey it used to be. But we've both made permanent changes of attitude.

The American people are one, maybe two steps away from giving up, forever on being "Mr. Nice Guy". So preen prattle, shame and blame while you still can...I assure you that when you use up the goodwill of our nation, you will not be entitled that luxury anymore. Enjoy.

Posted by B 2004-05-12 12:44:06 PM|| 2004-05-12 12:44:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Agreed, Charles ... I use France as shorthand for Old Europe, but now that Spain seems to have (re)joined that club as well I guess I'd better start casting a wider net

Posted by docob 2004-05-12 12:50:01 PM|| 2004-05-12 12:50:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Well said, B ... I only hope that your faith that the majority of the American public "gets it" is justified.

Posted by docob 2004-05-12 12:53:01 PM|| 2004-05-12 12:53:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 I used to think Turkey was a stronger NATO ally than the likes of Denmark and Norway, and when all the fuss was underway last year I didn't really worry about it too much. I figured that after all the stupid negotiating over the troop passage was done Turkey would be right there with the US.

I was wrong and I'm not going to forget that.

Posted by Laurence of the Rats 2004-05-12 1:20:39 PM|| 2004-05-12 1:20:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 "Used to say their military will step in, used to say they are more "modern" than other Islamic countries. Used to say how "democracy" works in Turkey. "

Ah, the ability to hold contradictory opinions at the same time. If the military had stepped in, it would be *then* that they wouldn't have been any more modern or any more democratic than other Islamic countries. The fact that the military didn't "step in" (aka impose the kind of pro-US dictatorship that some people over here prefer over democracy) is *itself* the reason that Turkey is better than most other Muslim countries.

A democratic Iraq won't necessarily follow US orders either. Not even when you really *really* want them to do so. You may one day ask a democratic Iraq, "Let our troops pass through in order to invade Iran", and they may say "No". And the ability to say "no" will be be a *good* thing, even if it is inconvenient for the USA.

And Charles, EU hadn't promised anything to Turkey regarding her role in Iraq, so it hardly backstabbed her. At most it seems that some individual French (and perhaps other) politicians had promised things they didn't have any authority or right to promise. Learn to distinguish between EU as a whole, its individual member states, and individuals within those member states.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-05-12 8:18:12 PM|| 2004-05-12 8:18:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Aris, we weren't asking anyone to follow orders. We were asking them to honor an alliance that has lasted nearly 60 years.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2004-05-12 8:26:38 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com/] 2004-05-12 8:26:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Robert> I know. And for that they may be called ungrateful or even backstabbing, if you wish. But it has nothing to do with how functional their democracy is, nor how much of an Islamic hellhole or not they are.

Posted by Aris Katsaris 2004-05-12 8:43:34 PM|| 2004-05-12 8:43:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Turkey needed the US in case the USSR (Russia their traditional enemy for hundreds of years) were to invade. The US needed Turkey to contain the USSR and keep them out of the Mediterranean. After the USSR broke up, the rationale of the alliance disappeared (much like the rest of NATO).

Posted by ed 2004-05-12 8:55:41 PM|| 2004-05-12 8:55:41 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Aris, as usual - you write before you read. Or maybe you just didn't understand my point.

I'll keep it short since you don't seem to be able to digest more than one or two sentences. Americans are just now beginning to grasp the barbarian nature of what we are up against. The concept used to be foreign to us and we have had a hard time grasping it. It's beginning to sink in now and we have changed. We have misjudged others, but they have misjudged us. We are mighty. When our goodwill is exhausted - which it will be after one or two more events - the rest of the world will feel our mighty, mighty wrath.

I am sad today. I am sad that the barbarians have stripped of us of our blissful ignorance - but I am sadder at the prospect of what awaits the world once our goodwill is exhausted.

Enjoy what's left of it while it lasts. This war hasn't even started yet.

Posted by B 2004-05-12 10:40:41 PM|| 2004-05-12 10:40:41 PM|| Front Page Top

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