Article

2004-04-05 Arabia

Saudis oppose Pakistani terror amnesty program

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Posted by Dan Darling 2004-04-05 12:32:34 AM|| || Front Page|| [6 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 If the Saudis are so concerned about the amnesty, they should just quietly threaten to cut off funding to the Paks. They will come to your fireside like a loyal hunting dawg. End of problem.

Posted by Alaska Paul 2004-04-05 12:42:15 AM|| 2004-04-05 12:42:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 This is actually pretty funny stuff, IMHO. I offer 2 observations. Salt to taste.

1) The AlQ types, of the True Believer School, really do hate the Royals - some (most?) are prolly Mad Mullah associates - a convergence of interests. These are the guys that Nayef's Keystone Cops USED TO keep bumbling into inside SA. Ever notice that Nayef's clowns never seemed able or cognizant that they should secure the location before opening fire? Sure, they did end up with the weapons cache - and that's prolly proof that the guys they were chasing aren't all that bright either... but it seems some always got away due to the incompetence of Nayef's soft boyz. But we haven't heard so much of this lately, have we? Anybody think they've all left?

2) The PakiWakis bad guys & madrassahs & Kashmiri bonus-babie$ (cannon fodder paid to pull stunts in Kashir) depend upon Wahhabi money to operate. The PakiWaki Gov't depends upon Saudi Gov't money to operate. Nayef = Wahhabi. Abdullah = Gov't. Does anyone else find this to be hysterically schizophrenic? Lol! Only in The Magic Kingdom and PakiWakiLand could we have such a situation.

Why are the Pakis even thinking of making this offer?

I can only guess that:
1) the Waziri War that has, thus far, been one honest but over-hyped battle, was far more costly to Perv politically than he can take again. Why else do something as insane as this? This has to piss off every one of his foreign allies (including the US) -- and the only people who could love the mug of this idea are his Internal Enemies.

2) ...or he's gonna put on his game face and try to blackmail the Royals, heh.

Ideas, anyone?

Posted by .com 2004-04-05 2:36:25 AM|| 2004-04-05 2:36:25 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Dotcom and Paul, how reliable a source is 'Hipakistan?"
Because this story doesn't sound right...
Why would Pakistan want to give amnesty to guys they just had a week or more long firefight with, including casualties on both sides...some of which were the Paki soldiers AlQ was holding hostage and whose bodies they mutilated?
Something's up--like Musharraf trying to cover up and act nonchalant about his previously very cosy relationship with SA, IRT AQ being in his country in the first place.
We haven't heard the end of this by a long shot.
The ties between Pakistan, AQ, SA and Wahhabism are long and deep--one of these days Perv is going to have to choose between the Sods and the Americans.
Let's hope he chooses wisely.

Posted by Jen 2004-04-05 2:49:18 AM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-04-05 2:49:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 I'll leave your question about source reliability to Dan!

I've given what I think above... feel free to rip, shred, tear, spindle, & mutilate!

Posted by .com 2004-04-05 2:55:49 AM|| 2004-04-05 2:55:49 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 You're right about the Saud AQ problem, though.
OBL and his followers would like to get rid of the Sod princes almost as much as they want to kill Americans because they think they're corrupt and debauched (Correctomundo!).
So the Sods, by funding and supporting AlQ and other Wahhab movements, have basically sown the seeds of their own destruction.
What no one talks about much is that:
A. Pakistanis make up most of the army in SA.
B. The Sauds most probably are behind the funding of the Pakistan nukes and A. Q. Khan's lab.

Posted by Jen 2004-04-05 3:08:23 AM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-04-05 3:08:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Jen, Item A is at odds with what I know, I think. Pakis are, indeed, the largest (in number) of the SA workforce, but as far as I know, the SA AF, Army and National Emergency Force are all Saudis. Can you direct me to a source - or did I misunderstand your post?

The Saudis rely very heavily upon certain tribes for their police and military - and these tribes are very well taken care of for their loyalty to the Royals. (Side Note: Some of the AF's pilots are actually Royals - a warplane is very dangerous in unreliable hands - and it's the glamorous mil gig.) You get an odd feeling because all of the Police, for instance, look vaguely alike -- cuz they're all from same tribes.

When alerts were on, and that happened a lot my last year there, driving from Aramco to my compound I would go through 2 (or more) Police checkpoints - and you'd sometimes get a deja vu feeling due to similarity of facial features and body type. Weird.

Posted by .com 2004-04-05 3:24:52 AM|| 2004-04-05 3:24:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Dotcom, Google "Saudi Arabia army Pakistan" and feast on what it brings up (lots and lots and lots).
When I said that Pakis make up the SA army, this would be the actual "grunts" who would fight any war that SA would be involved in or maybe there's just an understanding for Pakistan to provide same. Or was before 9/11.
You know the Sods never do much actual work--they do have their pride.

Posted by Jen 2004-04-05 3:43:16 AM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-04-05 3:43:16 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Let's remember that Pakistan or more exactly a country liknjked to fundamentalism, got nukes under the adminstration of Hillary's husband.

Posted by JFM 2004-04-05 4:00:07 AM|| 2004-04-05 4:00:07 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Here's an article, from a very odd place as the URL shows, but it does cover the topic better than anything else I could find. You're lazy, Jen, lazy. I asked for a link, if you had it, not to spend all this time wading through all the shit that brought up!

Emphasis is mine to point out relevant points.

SAUDI ARABIA

National Recruitment Legislation and Practice
According to article 34 of the Constitution, "The defence of the Islamic religion, society, and country is a duty for each citizen". The government establishes the provisions of military service. Conscription has never existed in Saudi Arabia, however, and volunteers are relied on to fill the ranks of the services.[2] Anyone seeking a commission by attending a military academy has to be 18 years-old and a citizen by birth or a naturalised citizen for at least five years.[3] The minimum age for voluntary recruitment to ordinary ranks is not clear.

Plans to increase the size of the army and National Guard would seem to necessitate some form of compulsory service. On several occasions, Saudi officials have stated that a draft would be introduced, but conscription has not been implemented as it would most likely be unpopular and easy to avoid, and could draw unreliable elements into the armed forces. In June 1991, however, the Minister of Defense and Aviation declared that conscription was not a viable option because the number of volunteers was exceeding the capacity of military centres available to train them.[4]

In order to attract Saudi youth into joining the armed forces, the Ministry of Defense and Aviation has established its own high schools and colleges which offer subsidised education. The government also conducts advertising campaigns to entice young Saudi males to join the armed forces. Recruiting stations are spread throughout the country. The National Guard continues to rely on tribal levies to fill its ranks, recruiting from the tribes of Najd, reputedly the most trustworthy in the Kingdom.[5]

To augment its armed forces, Saudi Arabia imports officers from other Arab countries, as well as Pakistan. At one time, there were approximately 15,000 Pakistanis in the armed forces. However, the contracting of Pakistani soldiers was phased out due to a disagreement between the Saudi and Pakistani governments over the screening-out of Shi'a soldiers during the Iran-Iraq war.[6] So this is ancient history, now.

Posted by .com 2004-04-05 4:34:56 AM|| 2004-04-05 4:34:56 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 It's not just Saudi Arabia, there are Pak soldiers used in other Gulf States too.

Ironically, General Zia, the man responsible for the Islamisation of the Pak Army, played a major roll in the slaughter of the PLO in the Black September incident. He was in the country training Jordanian troops (which might explain the Arab military skills being so similar to the Pakistani militaries skills)

Posted by Paul Moloney 2004-04-05 5:08:13 AM|| 2004-04-05 5:08:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 As far as source reliability goes, HiPakistan is generally speaking fairly good as a source of news information as far as what goes on in the country.

Posted by Dan Darling 2004-04-05 8:53:53 AM|| [http://www.regnumcrucis.blogspot.com] 2004-04-05 8:53:53 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 So sorry, Dotcom--on any other night I might have obliged, but I am moving today, it was 2:00 AM and I had to be up now.
At least I got you Googling...
Don't beats me, Massuh Dotcom!

DD, thanks for attesting to the value of HiPakistan's info.

Posted by Jen 2004-04-05 9:36:18 AM|| [http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2004-04-05 9:36:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#13 Yes, consider the source of the story. Let's say it's true, however. Just what kind of amnesty are we talking about? No prison in Pakistan, but the Saudi AQ's have to go home on a special charter? Could they all be rounded up in Pak and on the condition that they spill all they know, that they will then be given amnesty a la saoudienne? Public repudiations of terrorism and how the Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques leads the way in moderate Wahibbism? Confinement to home? Ankle bracelets? Deprogramming? Going to elementary schools and disavowing terrorism?

.com sees the irony in this matter and so do I. 5 years ago, these guys were the vanguard of the Saudi state religion, and now Abdallah wants them dead? What does Prince Naive think? A definite hot potato that will be passed around among the princes. In any case, it's disconcerting, if article is true, that Musharref would want to give these guys a break. There's much to find out here.

Posted by Michael 2004-04-05 10:17:03 AM|| 2004-04-05 10:17:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#14 re: "You know the Sods never do much actual work--they do have their pride." This is reportedly changing. WSJ last week had a center column article attesting to a new desire from the populace that they be able to WORK. Even previously-unheard of labor such as mining is desired by young workers. Male flight attendants for the Saudi airline are now almost exclusively Saudis (and apparently very eligible because of the position--go figure!) If a generation is learning the benefits of meritocracy, and the royals continue encouraging and supporting the trend, there may be hope for longer term change in the M.E. (Understood that a foundation of capitalism/individual self-determination is just ONE facet of what needs fixin' with those countries & cultures.)

Posted by TiltingWindmill 2004-04-05 11:19:15 AM|| 2004-04-05 11:19:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#15 Is this an honest offer, or a required step in Pashtun negotiations?

Posted by Super Hose 2004-04-05 9:40:18 PM|| 2004-04-05 9:40:18 PM|| Front Page Top

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