Article

2004-04-05 Europe

Euro cleric justifies mutilation of enemies

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Posted by Super Hose 2004-04-05 12:24:54 PM|| || Front Page|| [11134 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Please help me understand why these "clerics" are not being thrown out on their collective a****s and sent packing back to the desert?

Posted by anymouse 2004-04-05 12:48:28 PM|| 2004-04-05 12:48:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 There's something about the name "Council for Fatwa and Research" that I find highly amusing. Maybe it's that their two stated goals are somewhat contradictory? After all, research would find that Islam isn't quite as brilliant as its followers seem to think; would you then have to issue a fatwa condemning whoever found this?

On the other hand, maybe it's more convenient to have the same body that oversees the "research" issue statements condemning and contradicting the findings they don't like . . .

This would be the Islamic way to do it, I suppose.

Posted by The Doctor 2004-04-05 1:22:42 PM|| 2004-04-05 1:22:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 European Council for Fatwa and Research, what type of research are they engaged in? Is AQ Khan the head of their research department?

Posted by Super Hose 2004-04-05 1:22:54 PM|| 2004-04-05 1:22:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Does this mean if he gets ripped out his car by a local nonbeliever, shot, dismembered, and his corpse dragged through the streets before being set on fire and hung from a bridge that it's okay, or is this one of those, "believers only, no infidels need apply" premises?

Posted by tu3031 2004-04-05 3:03:17 PM|| 2004-04-05 3:03:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Maybe he can focus his research staff on a justification for mutilation during an honor killing. I had thought that practice was more of a tribal custom rather than an actual tenet of Islam, but this guy really leaves that as an open question for me.
I wish Murat was around to explain how Moslems are going to effectively integrate in European society. This guy doesn't seem to be on the path to assimilation.

Posted by Super Hose 2004-04-05 3:35:10 PM|| 2004-04-05 3:35:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 I had thought that practice was more of a tribal custom rather than an actual tenet of Islam, but this guy really leaves that as an open question for me.

Cee? It's just culture. And don't be whinning to me about how a culture influences religon, which in your tiny freeper minds would imply that the same culture which whipped up Molock would also be able to invent the peaceful religon of Allah.

Posted by AntiGum 2004-04-05 4:49:03 PM|| 2004-04-05 4:49:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Troll alert!

Or did you just forget your "sarcasm" tags, Anti-Brain?

Posted by Barbara Skolaut 2004-04-05 4:58:04 PM|| 2004-04-05 4:58:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Were I a Muslim, I'd want to visit with Sheik Mawlawi right away and begin mutilating him for defacing my religion.

However difficult it is for those outside of Islam to understand, the reason why Mawlawi can get away with espousing this sort of evil crap is the same reason that no death fatwa was ever decreed against bin Laden. Honorable Muslims refuse to employ the same extremist tactics that the Islamic terrorists are using. They do not want any reputation for that sort of violence and repression.

That said, the global Muslim community had better begin to rethink its drink pretty d@mn fast. There will be increasingly harsh and, finally, violent backlashes against any glorification of mutilation and ultra-violence. There's not a lot of time left on the clock for this to happen.

Fair or not, such discrimination will be a direct result of whatever inability or continued inaction shown by global Muslims as regards jihadist proselytizing. Civilized society will reach a limit in its capacity to absorb this sort of barbarity. At some point, mounting dissatisfaction will be redirected into halting Islamic agitation and woe betide honorable Muslims when that happens. Mosques will likely be shut down or burned while people of Islamic faith shall find themselves marginalized and isolated from social support networks. I am not advocating that this should happen, merely predicting that it will.

Posted by Zenster 2004-04-05 8:06:09 PM|| 2004-04-05 8:06:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 Dumpster - "Honorable Muslims refuse to employ the same extremist tactics that the Islamic terrorists are using. They do not want any reputation for that sort of violence and repression."

What is honorable about their behavior?
Do they denounce the Islamists?
Do they denounce the violence?
Do they denounce killing of innocents?
Do they even COMPLAIN about Islam's hijacking?
Do they denounce DICK?
Do they DO dick?

No. There are so few "honorable" Muslims in any position of influence as to make no odds - i.e. it's moot. They're moot. They are without honor, without decency, without principles and without balls. I see ZERO honor.

Loan me that microscope you're using, my presbyopia must be getting worse.

While I'm checking, you go read the Qu'uran - both Suras & Haddiths - and find those "honorable" Muslim Clerics of Influence for me.

Pfeh.

Posted by .com 2004-04-05 8:16:21 PM|| 2004-04-05 8:16:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 I speculate that Sheik Mawlawi was worried about the consequences of being labeled a "moderate Iman." There must be an ongoing contest between European Imans on who can spew the most militant ~~fat-ones~~ fatwas as the one who is the most moderate when the ~~music~~ call-to-prayer stops will be left a head short.

Posted by Super Hose 2004-04-05 9:47:33 PM|| 2004-04-05 9:47:33 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 .com, let me know when you outgrow your immature, ill informed and bigoted notions. There's the faint possibility you might actually be worth responding to at that point. Sick puppies like bin Laden love to quote your sort of bilious and narrow minded spewing during their recruitment drives.

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British Muslims are planning a mass rally in Central London to demonstrate against all forms of terrorism. The Muslim Council of Britain, the largest umbrella group of the 2.5 million Muslims in Britain, is urgently consulting its members and mosques on proposals for a rally to underline Muslim condemnation of the Madrid bombings and al-Qaeda violence.

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Washington, DC (September 9, 2002) â Several prominent American Muslims, organizations, and scholars issued the following statement denouncing violence and terrorism, especially in the name of Islam, a religion of peace and justice.

The statement was issued on the eve of the first anniversary of the tragedy of Sept. 11, and has been signed by 199 prominent American Muslims, and scholars of Islam from all over the world.

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The concept of jihad has many shades of meaning, but the way Osama bin Laden has applied it to political violence has moved beyond the bounds of Islamic teaching on warfare, scholars say.

"Everybody who has war experience understands that sometimes civilians are going to be killed during legitimate military action," says John Kelsay, religion chairman at Florida State University and the author of "Islam and War." "But direct, intentional targeting of civilians is just off the charts."

While bin Laden, Afghanistan's Taliban rulers and other Muslims have used the term jihad to mean "holy war," Cambridge University scholar Akbar Ahmed writes that "in fact jihad means struggle and there are various forms of it; physical confrontation is just one."

The phrase "holy war" does not appear in the Quran, (also spelled Koran), the Muslim holy book, says Jamal Badawi of St. Mary's University in Halifax, Nova Scotia.

Badawi contends the phrase does not even make sense because Islam regards war as a necessary evil, not something that is holy in itself.

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Muslims in Toronto and indeed across Canada today condemned the apparent terrorist attacks in New York and Washington and offered condolences to the families of those who were killed or injured.

In a statement, Syed Mumtaz Ali, President of the Canadian Society of Muslims said: "We condemn in the strongest terms possible what are apparently vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Canadians in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts."

-----------------

KUALA LUMPUR DECLARATION ON INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM

ADOPTED AT THE EXTRAORDINARY SESSION OF THE ISLAMIC CONFERENCE OF FOREIGN MINISTERS ON TERRORISM

1-3- APRIL 2002

1. In the name of Islamic solidarity, we, the Foreign Ministers of the Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), have gathered in Kuala Lumpur to state our collective resolve to combat terrorism and to respond to developments affecting Muslims and Islamic countries in the aftermath of the 11th September attacks;

2. We recall earlier measures adopted by the OIC in combating international terrorism, including the Code of Conduct for Combating International Terrorism, the OIC Convention on Combating International Terrorism, which, inter alia, provides a definition of terrorism, and the Declaration of the 9th Extraordinary Session of ICFM as well as relevant OIC Resolutions on combating international terrorism;

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The UK's mainstream Muslim community has publicly attacked a "tiny lunatic fringe" which has expressed controversial views on the terror attacks in the US.

Community and religious leaders say the small number of Islamic activists are endangering and embarrassing ordinary Muslims by supporting the atrocities.

They say the overwhelming majority of the two million Muslims living in the UK do not share the activist's extreme views.

Their criticism is aimed at a minority of Muslim clerics who have been widely quoted suggesting there was delight and support for what had happened in the United States.

-----------------

Posted by Zenster 2004-04-05 10:57:58 PM|| 2004-04-05 10:57:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 Lol!

After puffing up yourself, you provide text, not links. I suggest you go donate to the Rantburg tipjar for your transgression, as I just did, and do the links, next time.

If you think this piddling collection of impotent and widely-spaced press releases, the proverbial drop in the bucket, has an effect on what is said in the Moskkks (Go To MEMRI and LEARN WTF You blather about) then you are, indeed, the deluded twinkie I take you to be. Get a clue. You have no moral high ground and your puffy prose doesn't add substance - it detracts, in fact. You and others can pretend all you wish that you've discovered a flaw in AlQ - that they are attacking their own and, thus, they must fail. What the rest of us have figured out is that they are not like us and don't use Western logic. They use terror. They are pure predators. Kow-tow or die is their message to these Muslim Moderates - academics, really, like you. They will fold when the jihadi comes to visit, for they are cattle to the Islamists. These academics foolishly believe their limp dick statements are important, as you do with your lame impotent comments.

The apparent fact that you're retarded in the ways of the real world, infatuated with your puffery, and easily injured indicate you MUST be living in the lap of academia.

This post of yours is MUCH more interesting:

"Jen, only when and if he is ever properly elected will I then be grudgingly obliged to address him as you wish I would. His intentional blurring of the separation between church and state while simultaneously attempting to constitutionalize discrimination gets nothing but scorn from me.

Thank goodness we live in a country where we can disagree on this matter. Please know that you indeed have the privilege to dislike me for what I say, that is entirely your right. Understand one thing though, I don't do this to intentionally anger or offend you or anybody else.

As a proud American I cannot abide the White House's ham-fisted tampering with both the duties of executive office or our beloved constitution. Whatever proper intransigence might be shown for terrorism (as is demanded of all worthy commander in chiefs) still in no way confers any right to enshrine religious commandment as constitutional law, especially not in a nation wholly founded upon secular ideals. This is what he's attempting and my own ethicality demands that I consider it to be nothing less than malfeasance of office. Hence my scorn."

Dumpster, you're an idiotarian. Now go hit that tip jar, son, you've used more than your fair share of RB resources.

Posted by .com 2004-04-05 11:25:06 PM|| 2004-04-05 11:25:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Dumpster, a couple of points.

1. Whether a "tiny lunatic fringe" support violent methods is an issue of fact. Merely to say that it is true doesn't make it true. I cite as evidence it is not true, the recent poll which showed paleostinians support for suicide bombings had dropped from the low 70s (percent) to the high sixties. So present your evidence!

2. The purpose of comments is to comment. Putting long quotes from elsewhere and of dubious relevance is bad form

3. .com may at times be intemperate but he has some important points to make. He is certainly not 'ill informed', and you are using bigoted as a perjorative insult.

4. .coms last post about the lack of denunciations of violence by muslims is correct. The fact you can dig out quotes by some muslims denouncing violence in no way lessens the truth of what he has said. And there is a whole issue of a culture that does not feel the need to align words with actions.

5. Yesterday I thought you were a troll. Today I think your habit of posting to dead threads and running away from people who dispute your opinions makes you just sad.

regards

Posted by phil_b 2004-04-05 11:26:36 PM|| 2004-04-05 11:26:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 The apparent fact that you're retarded in the ways of the real world, infatuated with your puffery, and easily injured indicate you MUST be living in the lap of academia.

Like I said, grow up, .com. My chip designs fly on the space shuttle and I've worked on America's stealth bomber, 300 mm diameter SDI 500MW FEL (500 Megawatt Free Electron Laser) monocrystalline optics plus assorted laser gyro circuitry and lots of other technology that helped America win the cold war.

Your tiresome use of personalities while attempting to discredit my opinions exhibits a distinct lack of forensic ability much less any real character or class on your own part. While that is your privelege, it doesn't cut much ice with anyone whose IQ is above room temperature.

Posted by Zenster 2004-04-05 11:48:46 PM|| 2004-04-05 11:48:46 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 phil_b, what part of:

Fair or not, such discrimination will be a direct result of whatever inability or continued inaction shown by global Muslims as regards jihadist proselytizing. Civilized society will reach a limit in its capacity to absorb this sort of barbarity. At some point, mounting dissatisfaction will be redirected into halting Islamic agitation and woe betide honorable Muslims when that happens. Mosques will likely be shut down or burned while people of Islamic faith shall find themselves marginalized and isolated from social support networks. I am not advocating that this should happen, merely predicting that it will.

was unclear?

I also feel that Muslims everywhere had better pick up the pace on ejecting terrorists from within their ranks. I just refuse to tar all Muslims with the same brush like so many others are willing to.

Posted by Zenster 2004-04-05 11:52:35 PM|| 2004-04-05 11:52:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 I didn't comment on this quote. But now you mention it. The language is tortured and the meaning opaque. Prosleytizing is not the issue. Violent and coersive actions are the issue. I have no idea what 'jihadist proselytizing' means. At a wild guess you mean recruiting bombers.

There is no reason to burn mosques. A zero tolerance policy combined with deportation would work just fine. We just need to take the oil away from them first. It is the root cause of the problem. Largesse without responsibility!

Posted by phil_b 2004-04-06 12:13:12 AM|| 2004-04-06 12:13:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#17 Dumpster - Wow. Is that what you wanted? Lol!
How about, "Well aren't you special?" Pfeh.

The 2nd baseman of a baseball team I coached is a chip designer, sonny. Perhaps you two should get together - though you're not as rare nor rarified as you imply. I was the coach. He did what I told him to on the field, because in that venue I knew more than he did. That's where our lives intersected. If we were in his lab, I'd follow his lead.

We're not making chips here in RB and your resume, which may impress you, does not qualify your opinions on Islam -- or anything else regards the WoT, the reason for Rantburg's existence.

Many of us here in RB are accomplished as well in our particular fields of endeavor - be surprised, Dumpster, you're not special except in the fact that you are an idiotarian with a deluded view of politics - one that is dangerous and foolish for everyone else in the Free World.

But our occupations don't necessarily intersect with the WoT. Mine does in the respect that it led me to live for over 4 years in Saudi Arabia. I learned a great deal about Islam, particularly Wahhabism, and Arabs. I served in the US Army and know a bit about war and killing.

I am qualified to speak to certain subjects due to my experiences. I steer clear of areas I don't know about. I endeavor not to post obvious re-statements of what others have already posted. I definitely avoid posting "Mee Too!" drivel. I work hard to post original thought - truly new ideas - and I don't think I do badly in this regard, but that's for others to judge. I certainly try. If they told me I was full of shit, I'd certainly listen and try to figure out why, rather than just spew and fume. I know I show far more restraint than you have, thus far, in posting pointless re-statements of the obvious and grandly assuming you understand the enemy's mind - when you have probably never even met anyone of his ilk.

When you get over yourself the benefit will be yours. It has no bearing upon me, so I couldn't care less. I only engaged you because your stated political position is disingenuous and your posts are often specious. You are, indeed, a buffoon prone to puffery and pedestrian commentary. Now we can add self-flattery while we await your ClueBat encounter or demise, whichever occurs first. If I could kill-flag your wasted and inflated "mee too" posts, I would.

When you grow up and accept reality, such as the facts about the elections process and associated dispute remedies, and the fact that our constitution is safe and sound, and that your understanding of President Bush and his achievements is a myopic act of self-delusion and asinine in the extreme, etc., you might become a person worth knowing and engaging. Sadly, 'tis not so, now. I'll forego the lure of playing with you in the future. You're really just a spoiled little jerk with a very big chip - on your shoulder.

Now go donate to Rantburg, you're tiresome.

Posted by .com 2004-04-06 1:06:57 AM|| 2004-04-06 1:06:57 AM|| Front Page Top

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Posted by Zenster 2004-04-05 11:30:25 PM|| 2004-04-05 11:30:25 PM|| Front Page Top

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Posted by Zenster 2004-04-05 11:57:36 PM|| 2004-04-05 11:57:36 PM|| Front Page Top

23:57 Zenster
23:57 Zenster
23:54 Zenster
23:54 Zenster
23:30 Zenster
23:30 Zenster
01:24 Frank
01:24 Frank
01:22 James TROLL
01:11 Baker TROLL
09:08 rkb
04:55 Super Hose
03:48 Pete Stanley
03:17 Super Hose
02:54 Murat
01:15 .com
01:06 .com
00:52 Alaska Paul on the Road
00:39 cingold
00:24 WhiteHouseDetox
00:18 ex-lib
00:17 Zenster
00:13 phil_b
00:04 Alaska Paul on the Road