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2004-01-27 Home Front

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Posted by Steve 2004-01-27 11:51:52 AM|| || Front Page|| [11139 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 This is worth checking out.

As you all know I'm easily lead and also easily conflicted. Especially about VN. It's damned if you do and damned if you don't. In '74 I was completely sure that the VN war was wrong. That we went in wrong, fought wrong (we didn't fight to win) and got out wrong. But as I look back I can't be so cock sure anymore, commie murderers vs right wing cleptos. Kerry is of the silver spoon crowed but he was doing what was becoming the popular thing when he did it. BTW when I see a vet mis-wearing fatigues with all the ribbons in front of congress, well that pisses me off. The uniform is to be worn properly. It's the least thing you can do. Kerry owes every soldier who has paid the price an appology.

Posted by Lucky 2004-1-27 12:31:37 PM|| 2004-1-27 12:31:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 saw this yesterday from a referral (Polipundit or Powerline?) - they seem to be adding info daily as there are new pics up today. Good work!

Posted by Frank G 2004-1-27 12:31:55 PM|| 2004-1-27 12:31:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Oh man, he looks just like John Cleese in the Python years!

Posted by BH 2004-1-27 12:47:14 PM|| 2004-1-27 12:47:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 I didn't know this much about his background either, but I have a few observations.
I have spoken to people who did service on those boats, including one guy who went back 2X and it was some pretty dangerous duty that combined alot of firepower, high visibility, limited defense posture in a moving target, and relatively low "accountability" for incidents that happened along the way. Lots of boredom interspersed by moments of terror.
I also would connect the dots that drug use was more the norm in the post war circles he was running in, and I wonder how long it will be before we get the "...but I didn't inhale" spin.
The third dot I will connect is that the negative research files on him are pretty thick and the only question is when they will come forward,not if.
Probably not until after Rove and team are convinced he is going to be the guy on the ticket.

Posted by Capsu78 2004-1-27 12:52:37 PM|| 2004-1-27 12:52:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Lots of boredom interspersed by moments of terror.

Pretty much a description of all combat duty.

Posted by mojo 2004-1-27 1:29:49 PM|| 2004-1-27 1:29:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 I can't be the only one who thinks of Aaron Burr every time I learn more about Kerry. A murderously cold-blooded, ex-military "patriot"- turned-traitor for political gain... poor, yet handsome and titled enough to woo and marry rich in order futher his unquenchable ambitions and delusions of grandeur.

He's like slime that oozed up from a crack out of hell. eeech! Just looking at him makes you want a shower.

Posted by B 2004-1-27 1:31:18 PM|| 2004-1-27 1:31:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 Kerry has a star but CDR Butcher has bubkus. Here is a sample of why I think that the captain of the Pueblo deserves one:

The North Koreans worked on CDR Bucher separately to try to get the ship's commanding officer to sign a confession and read a pre-written apology. In an attempt to make him admit to wrongdoing, a gun was held to Bucher's head and dry-fired but he did not give in.

More at this link.

Posted by Super Hose 2004-1-27 2:16:34 PM|| 2004-1-27 2:16:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Searched the website for the Naval Institute to see if they listed any references for naval heroism Vietnam. The search turned up these books:

BROWN WATER, BLACK BERETS
Coastal and Riverine Warfare in Vietnam - Thomas Cutler

THE COAST GUARD AT WAR - by Alex Larzelere

COUNTERPART A South Vietnamese Naval Officer's War - by Capt. Kiem Do, deputy chief of staff for operations in the South Vietnamese Navy

(Kerry's book was not listed. Nothing on McCain either so the institute must be non-partisan.)

Posted by Super Hose 2004-1-27 2:24:01 PM|| 2004-1-27 2:24:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 SH, at the time of the Pueblo's capture, I was serving with an AF Chief Master Sergeant who had been a classmate of CDR Butcher while at Father Flanagan's Boys' Home. He always spoke well of Butcher and expected him to perservere the ordeal. I'm sure the chief would wholeheartly agree with you about overdue recognition.

Posted by Gasse Katze 2004-1-27 3:09:09 PM|| 2004-1-27 3:09:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 He always spoke well of Butcher and expected him to perservere the ordeal. I'm sure the chief would wholeheartly agree with you about overdue recognition.

Yes. And if the Pueblo still floats it's time to do a Philadelphia on it.

Posted by Shipman 2004-1-27 5:24:47 PM|| 2004-1-27 5:24:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 Oops. Misspelled the Cdr's name. Bucher not Butcher. Mea culpa.
GK

Posted by Gasse Katze 2004-1-27 5:50:42 PM|| 2004-1-27 5:50:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 It was not pleasant coming home to resume college studies in 1969 as a veteran unless you joined the "Ho Ho Ho, Ho Chi Minh, Ho Chi Minh is gonna win!" crowd. Kerry joined and look at him today. While my friends were dying in the A Shau, Kerry was weaseling into politics. He may have a lot of veteran support according to the media, but he will never get my vote.

Posted by Sgt.DT 2004-1-27 6:14:32 PM|| 2004-1-27 6:14:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 And if the Pueblo still floats it's time to do a Philadelphia on it.

It still floats.

Posted by Pappy 2004-1-27 7:28:04 PM|| 2004-1-27 7:28:04 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Ship, as far as I know, international law hase no prohibition against destroying your own property ... in spectacular fashion.

GK, sorry about my spelling mishap. I watched an Ollie North episode of War Stories that featured Cdr Bucher and the story of the Pueblo. Had to take stroll through the neighborhood to calm the rage afterwards.

Posted by Super Hose 2004-1-27 9:08:26 PM|| 2004-1-27 9:08:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 I know it's late but good thread. VN!?

Posted by Lucky 2004-1-28 12:34:18 AM|| 2004-1-28 12:34:18 AM|| Front Page Top

08:50 Scooter McGruder
08:31 Raptor
06:10 Mike
02:58 Lu Baihu
01:33 Lucky
01:28 Lucky
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00:04 PBMcL
00:02 Mike Sylwester
23:22 Traveller
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23:03 Sorge
22:46 Stephen
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22:20 Robert Crawford
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21:25 Alaska Paul