Article

2003-08-28 Afghanistan

Schroeder: Germany Committed to Afghan Troops

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Posted by Steve White 2003-08-28 12:32:27 AM|| || Front Page|| [4 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 In further news, Chancellor Schroeder raised the possibility of sending an additional 200 peacekeeping troops to Paris, France.

"It's easy! Last time, it took us only a few weeks."

The President of France was unavailable for comment, as he was busy surrendering to the nearest German tourist.

Posted by Ed Becerra 2003-8-28 2:57:50 AM|| 2003-8-28 2:57:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Well, the Krauts are doing good and it is good this see this. Now, if they can just chuck the Greens/Commies, they will be doing even better.

As good as we like to think US infantry is, German infantry are the God of War.

Hopefully, our Islamist foes will get a taste of what I am talking about.

Posted by badanov 2003-8-28 7:31:26 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org/weblog] 2003-8-28 7:31:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 This looks like Germany is responding to Bush's increased commitment to rebuild Afghanistan by doubling the aid being given.

Posted by Ptah 2003-8-28 7:54:33 AM|| [http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org] 2003-8-28 7:54:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Way to go, Germany. Thanks for helping us out, we could use it. I hope we can get our other issues behind us now and work together more.

Posted by g wiz 2003-8-28 8:06:14 AM|| 2003-8-28 8:06:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 if theyre going to Kunduz in the north our islamist foes will never see them, as this is far from the Pakistani border.

OTOH Kunduz is a Pashtun island in a Tadjik/Uzbek sea, and so is very politically sensitive. The Germans can do good work in maintaining order, and ensuring reconstruction.

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-8-28 9:13:33 AM|| 2003-8-28 9:13:33 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Bad,I would Imagine TGA resents being referred to a a Kraut.Hell I didn't like your use of the word.

Posted by raptor 2003-8-28 9:48:30 AM|| 2003-8-28 9:48:30 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 raptor: the wogs start at Calais.

Is that better?

Proud descendant of Millvale bar krauts and Pittsburgh mill hunkies...

Posted by Mitch H. 2003-8-28 10:50:23 AM|| 2003-8-28 10:50:23 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Way to go, Germany. Thanks for helping us out, we could use it. I hope we can get our other issues behind us now and work together more.

You don't get it, do you? We are not helping you. We are helping AFGHANS so that they can take their country back from terrorists. You invaded Iraq and made it a terrorist magnet. Now your "flypaper" is killing both your soldiers and the innocent civilians. It is your mess, you have to clean it , not us.

Posted by Stephen 2003-8-28 11:27:28 AM|| 2003-8-28 11:27:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 "You invaded Iraq and made it a terrorist magnet. Now your "flypaper" is killing both your soldiers and the innocent civilians. It is your mess, you have to clean it , not us."
Posted by: Stephen 2003-8-28 11:27:28 AM

Yeah, sure. Its a quagmire I tell ya!

Posted by Flaming Sword 2003-8-28 11:37:13 AM|| 2003-8-28 11:37:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 Hey Stevey! new moniker huh?

Posted by Frank G 2003-8-28 11:40:51 AM|| 2003-8-28 11:40:51 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 Stephen... Help me understand this EU mentality

A bunch of yahoos in Afganistan are worthy of Germany's help, while the US (which has never really done anything for Germany/Europe.... Ha!) is not...

Old Europe needs to get over its self-righteousness.

Posted by ----------<<<<- 2003-8-28 11:42:09 AM|| 2003-8-28 11:42:09 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 Stevey needs to get over the loss of his job, due to his sick website.

Posted by Anonymous 2003-8-28 12:58:06 PM|| 2003-8-28 12:58:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Umm, Stevie, can you refresh my memory at to which country it was that plans were drawn up and contacts made?

At least Iraq is a terrorist magnet. They're your recent ancestors w/turbans, Stevie. Europe's recent history should make it more sensitive to the dangers, not run away from it.

Because you can't.

Posted by Anonymous 2003-8-28 1:06:11 PM|| 2003-8-28 1:06:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 A bunch of yahoos in Afganistan are worthy of Germany's help, while the US (which has never really done anything for Germany/Europe.... Ha!) is not...

They're your recent ancestors w/turbans, Stevie

How pathetic! A bunch of American cowboys...

Posted by Stephen 2003-8-28 1:14:37 PM|| 2003-8-28 1:14:37 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 We are helping AFGHANS so that they can take their country back from terrorists. You invaded Iraq and made it a terrorist magnet.

Meaning, of course, that Iraq being run by fascists with lots of close ties to terrorists was fine by Stevie.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2003-8-28 1:15:26 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2003-8-28 1:15:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Why danke for the compliment!!!

"A bunch of American cowboys..."

One thing that gives US giggles is how you euros think "cowboy" is an insult.

Posted by Anonymous 2003-8-28 1:16:49 PM|| 2003-8-28 1:16:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Meaning, of course, that Iraq being run by fascists with lots of close ties to terrorists was fine by Stevie

FYI Iraq was a dictatorship.

"Close ties to terrorists": Yeah, your intelligence agencies are still trying to find those links, as well as WMDs.

Posted by Stephen 2003-8-28 1:28:02 PM|| 2003-8-28 1:28:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Why danke for the compliment!!!

cowboy
n 1: a hired hand who tends cattle and performs other duties on
horseback [syn: cowpuncher, puncher, cowman, cattleman,
cowpoke, cowhand, cowherd]
2: a performer who gives exhibitions of riding and roping and
bulldogging [syn: rodeo rider]
3: someone who is reckless or irresponsible (especially in
driving vehicles)

Source: WordNet (r) 1.7

Posted by Stephen 2003-8-28 1:31:20 PM|| 2003-8-28 1:31:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Stevey Stevey Stevey....

Obviously you've never watched a John Wayne movie. Sad really.

Cowboys = John Wayne. IT AINT AN INSULT FRENCHIE!

Posted by Valentine 2003-8-28 1:47:56 PM|| 2003-8-28 1:47:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 More good news: SchrÃ¶der and Fischer have just announced to run again in 2006. Why is this good? Because this basically excludes Fischer's candidacy for the European Foreign Ministry and of course they'll both go down in 2006 like lead in water.

Stephen (Stevieboy?), you you haven't got a f*** clue. Don't say "we" when you are referring to Germans. Rantburgers can call me "Kraut" anytime, I know how they mean it. But with you on "my side", no, thank you. Get lost.

Of course we Germans help Afghans, but we are there to make the world safer from terrorism that may strike us Germans as well as Americans.

I'm convinced that we will help in Iraq, too. Probably not with combat troops but I see progress with other things. Try to read comments in serious ("fair and balanced") German newspapers. Germans did not agree with going to war, but most intelligent comments agree that "toldya so" schadenfreude would be completely stupid. The whole world needs Iraq to be a success story. Failure is not an option. The Middle East in new terrorist chaos is not an option. While the Germans understand this, the French may (still) think that "humiliation" of the U.S. is a good thing for French gloire. You may not read much about this but Germans are not amused about the French Hamas politics. The French are about to seriously piss us off with their non-constructive capitulard politics.

It is not about replacing U.S. troops with U.N. troops. There is nothing the blue helmets could do better in active fighting against Baathist/islamofascists/terrorists, but a lot they could screw up. In competent hands, administration, help and rebuilding Iraq is something the U.N. could be good at (did I say "in competent hands"?). It is about the world to see that Iraq is crucial to security in this (and probably the next) decade. Of course, no taxation without representation. Who helps (and pays) will have a say in matters, too. That's why the U.N. role in Iraq needs to be better defined. The U.S. can live without U.N. blessing, Germany cannot.

And I think we could need a bit more optimism here. How many American troops were predicted to be killed in the "siege of Baghdad"? 5000? How much was this "bloody, unwinnable" war supposed to cost the US? Did I hear 200 bn? 1 trillion dollars? Every soldier killed is one too much, but less U.S. soldiers have been killed in guerrilla/terror attacks in Iraq than people in a single blast in Bali. Reality check please.

And I have met "cowboys" in Texas (and elsewhere). It will forever beat me why this word could be used as an insult.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-8-28 1:52:53 PM|| 2003-8-28 1:52:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Obviously you've never watched a John Wayne movie. Sad really.

Be careful Valentine: excessive television-watching:

1. Induces cognitive passivity;
2. Stifles/displaces creativity, reflection and imagination;
3. Shortens attention spans and increases hyperactivity;
4. Cultivates visual processing skills incompatible with print-based skills.

Posted by Stephen 2003-8-28 2:06:39 PM|| 2003-8-28 2:06:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 True German Ally

Thank you for the insult.

Don't say "we" when you are referring to Germans

Why? only you have the right to speak for Germans?

Of course we Germans help Afghans, but we are there to make the world safer from terrorism that may strike us Germans as well as Americans

That is the same reason we are not in Iraq

Every soldier killed is one too much, but less U.S. soldiers have been killed in guerrilla/terror attacks in Iraq than people in a single blast in Bali.

So? Are you going to change your mind when the number of US/British soldiers exceed 200?

The U.S. can live without U.N. blessing, Germany cannot

???

Posted by Stephen 2003-8-28 2:15:47 PM|| 2003-8-28 2:15:47 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Amen, TGA.

And Stevey, my pathetic little friend.... I am proud to be a 'cowboy' and a 'yankee'

The other rantburgers are right... these aren't derogatory terms to most merkins...

Posted by ----------<<<<- 2003-8-28 2:17:09 PM|| 2003-8-28 2:17:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 FYI Iraq was a dictatorship.

Really? And that means it wasn't run by fascists in what way? Hint: Hitler and Mussolini were both fascists and dictators.

"Close ties to terrorists": Yeah, your intelligence agencies are still trying to find those links, as well as WMDs.

Those links are found everytime a Saudi, Syrian, etc. is killed/captured in Iraq. Funny how the Fedayeen Saddam were mostly "non-Iraqi Arabs", and how many members of the PLO and associated groups lived in Baghdad, supported by the government.

(BTW -- John Wayne made movies, not television shows.)

Posted by Robert Crawford 2003-8-28 2:19:13 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2003-8-28 2:19:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 So are you German, Stephen? I hope not.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-8-28 2:25:25 PM|| 2003-8-28 2:25:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 Thanks, Germany.

Posted by Matt 2003-8-28 2:31:15 PM|| 2003-8-28 2:31:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Robert Crawford

BTW -- John Wayne made movies, not television shows
Fair enough. However, I believe most people (incl. you?) have seen his movies on TV.

And that means it wasn't run by fascists in what way? Hint: Hitler and Mussolini were both fascists and dictators.
OK. Still Iraq was not a fascist country.

Those links are found everytime a Saudi, Syrian, etc. is killed/captured in Iraq. Funny how the Fedayeen Saddam were mostly "non-Iraqi Arabs"

Any web links you may provide will be helpful. Or should I just believe your faith-based intelligence sources? And by the way since you are on it, could you show me some evidence that links 9/11 to Iraq? This would be a great service for American government, too!

...[how] many members of the PLO and associated groups lived in Baghdad, supported by the government.

Is this the reason the U.S. has invaded Iraq? They are more in Lebanon, Syria, West Bank Gaza...

Posted by Stephen 2003-8-28 2:33:22 PM|| 2003-8-28 2:33:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 They are more in Lebanon, Syria, West Bank Gaza...

Wait your turn.

Posted by Steve 2003-8-28 2:40:55 PM|| 2003-8-28 2:40:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Germany is a friend of the U.S. Friends don't let friends killed in stupid wars which have nothing to do with the WoT and provide no safety to American people or the world in general.

Wait your turn
Considering the situation in Iraq it will be a long wait.

Posted by Stephen 2003-8-28 2:46:10 PM|| 2003-8-28 2:46:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 Any web links you may provide will be helpful.

It's been discussed here. Sorry you weren't paying attention.

And by the way since you are on it, could you show me some evidence that links 9/11 to Iraq? This would be a great service for American government, too!

It would, but I never made that claim. Why are you asking me to find evidence for a claim I never made?

BTW -- Iraq was a fascist country. I realize that, in your limited experience, a Republican administration is "fascist", but the Ba'ath party was (is, in Syria) a direct descendant of Germany's Nazi party. Like Germany's Fascists, their ideology was based strongly on race (pan-Arab nationalism) and state direction of industry (though not necessarily state ownership).

But why am I bothering to tell you anything? You won't bother to learn from anything I say.

Posted by Robert Crawford 2003-8-28 2:47:07 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com] 2003-8-28 2:47:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Baathism was a form of panarabic nationalism that degenerated into extremely corrupt bloody totalitarian dictatorship with mafioso structures. There was little terrorist activity in Iraq because Saddam and his cronies had a monopole on that.

Nobody ever said that Iraq was responsible for 9/11. The idea of eliminating Saddam was about eliminating the nightmare of terrorists meet WMD and causing a disaster that would make 9/11 look like a exploded pop corn machine.

And of course Stephen would be one of the first to complain: "Why didn't anybody try to prevent it?"

It's not the terrorists running about we need to worry most: It's the network, the money, the endorsement by rogue nations that makes them so dangerous. Without this we will still have some terrorists. But they won't be able to go much further than the occasional car bomb. And they probably have to steal the car first.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-8-28 2:57:24 PM|| 2003-8-28 2:57:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#32 Stephen, please define Ba'athism without using either "fascist" or "Stalinist". Follow up by explaining the distinctive characteristics of the three political traditions. I'm honestly curious to see if you can do it in a coherent fashion.

Posted by Mitch H. 2003-8-28 3:10:00 PM|| 2003-8-28 3:10:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 We are not helping you.

Sorry if I offended you Stevie but I have bad news, you are helping us and the Afghanis. It's a positive step in both ways. Americans will appreciate and Afghanis will appreciate it. You might not want American appreciation but that's too bad.

"Close ties to terrorists": Yeah, your intelligence agencies are still trying to find those links

Saddam gave Abu Abbas a home right in the middle of Baghdad. Terrorist link: check!

Posted by g wiz 2003-8-28 3:14:49 PM|| 2003-8-28 3:14:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 The positive charecter of the movie "cowboy" was not only epitomized by John Wayne. Who can forget Alex Karras in Blazing Saddles or Jack Palance in City Slickers.

Posted by Super Hose 2003-8-28 3:26:32 PM|| 2003-8-28 3:26:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 Frankly I have a different cowboy in mind - Just got my three-DVD set of Clint Eastwood - the man with no name (actually he was called Joe in all three, but, I digress) series (remastered): Fistful of Dollars; For a Few Dollars More; and the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. "Stephen" made me think of one ;-)
BTW for other Clint-o-philes, his other DVDs are being released in bunches, some remastered and with special features. Got my Amazon order in for the Dirty Harry set...Go ahead ~~stevey~~ Stephen, make my day

Posted by Frank G 2003-8-28 3:39:06 PM|| 2003-8-28 3:39:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 A bunch of American cowboys"
Thanks,Stephy.
I would much rather be refered to as a corageous,hard working,take no crap from ass-hats cowboy then be called a cowardly,Euro-weasal wennie.Try studing a little history of the American West,weasal.
"Be careful Valentine"...Stephy.take your nose out of a pysycho-babble book and look around dumb-ass.

No offences to you,TGA.You are a good friend and much appreciated ally.
Thanks,Valintine.Are you American?

Posted by raptor 2003-8-28 3:47:01 PM|| 2003-8-28 3:47:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 "You may not read much about this but Germans are not amused about the French Hamas politics."

no i havent read aboout it (though i wouldnt be surprised, and would be pleased) - all ive seen is that UK is taking the lead on banning Hamas "political" wing, and France opposed - nothing on German position.

I should just read DW english site, but links are appreciated.

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-8-28 3:51:56 PM|| 2003-8-28 3:51:56 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 LH, the German government hasn't been very vocal about this, I'm referring to politically interested and involved Germans I'm talking with (and some printed comments in the press).

Of course I cannot speal for all Germans (there is still Stephen) and maybe I chose the people I associate a bit more carefully than others.

Unfortunately SchrÃ¶der/Fischer still treat Chirac/Villepin with velvet gloves. I hope that will change.

SchrÃ¶der is still waiting for a White House invitation. No hugs needed. But not refusing to meet people who are expected to help you out with troops and money would help, don't you think?

Posted by True German Ally 2003-8-28 4:42:14 PM|| 2003-8-28 4:42:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 TGA wrote: It is not about replacing U.S. troops with U.N. troops. There is nothing the blue helmets could do better in active fighting against Baathist/islamofascists/terrorists, but a lot they could screw up.

TGA makes an important point: UN troops versus US troops in Iraq is not the issue. Competent troops that can ensure order, swat those who would disrupt order, help those who wish to rebuild Iraq, and protect the lives of the innocent is the key requirement in Iraq. Whether the UN troops would be German, Pakistani, Indian or Samoan is less important than whether they would do the job as it needs to be done.

To Stephen: Assuming for the moment that you're not Stevey Robinson, you should do a little research: the Ba'ath Party got its start in 1942 and was consciously modeled after the Fascist Party in Italy. It borrowed heavily from Franco and from the Nazis and fused all that with a pan-Arabism. It was and is essentially fascist in its ideology and character. Saddam, long an admirer of Stalin, borrowed Stalin's heavy grip on the mechanisms of power and his use of terror as an instrument of the state after he staged his coup and took power in Iraq.

Posted by Steve White 2003-8-28 4:57:50 PM|| 2003-8-28 4:57:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 TGA - this from AP

'"German officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, noted that Hamas provides a lot of social services for Palestinians â but that after the latest Mideast peace setbacks, Berlin would not oppose a harder line.

"There's movement in several EU countries, including Germany, toward banning the political wing and freezing its assets," said Muriel Asseburg, a research fellow at the German Institute for International and Security Affairs in Berlin.

"It's a difficult debate, and a decision is not easy." '

Not quite the UK position, but better than France and Belgium.

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-8-28 5:00:36 PM|| 2003-8-28 5:00:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 "Of course I cannot speal"

Speal = cross between english speak, and German/old english "spiel" to sing (see modern english "gospel"). See also "sprechtstimme" (sp?)

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-8-28 5:03:06 PM|| 2003-8-28 5:03:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 lol... just a typo LH, no Freudian slip.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-8-28 5:12:14 PM|| 2003-8-28 5:12:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 "I'm referring to politically interested and involved Germans I'm talking with "

Of course the great thing about forums like this (and some more international ones) is to get some insight into what real people are thinking and talking about, without mediation of governments and the press. One accepts that the folks involved are not statistically representative. I can well believe that Germans are wrestling with this, in ways that go beyond the careful considerations of diplomats.

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-8-28 5:14:29 PM|| 2003-8-28 5:14:29 PM|| Front Page Top

#44 well i could shpiel about it for some time, but I wont.

Posted by liberalhawk 2003-8-28 5:15:27 PM|| 2003-8-28 5:15:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#45 Here's a longer story (including your quotes) in SFGate.
I know that I don't speak for all Germans (our new German(?) friend Stephen reminded me of that painfully) and sometimes I may post a bit of wishful thinking, too.

Some of it seems to come true after some weeks. Did anyone notice that Al Quaeda doesn't seem to have a "political wing"?

Posted by True German Ally 2003-8-28 5:33:16 PM|| 2003-8-28 5:33:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#46 Steve White , Mitch H. , Robert Crawford

The Baathist ideology combines elements of Arab nationalism, anti-imperialism and socialism. Its slogan is "Unity, Freedom, Socialism" -- unity among Arabs, freedom from Western imperialism and socialism of a different style than the economic system Marx envisioned.

In reality this was a one-man regime, it was more of a personal dictatorship in which we found the cult of Saddam. And yes it was in the name of the Baath Party and yes there was some kind of ideology but the ideology was whatever Saddam says it was.

g wiz
Germans are in Afghanistan to help Afghani people. If Americans appreciate Germany for that, it is fine with me. Abu Abbas was an old man who has no connections with a terrorist organizations for the last 10 years. Is this the best you can think of?

raptor
I would much rather be refered to as a corageous,hard working,take no crap from ass-hats cowboy then be called a cowardly,Euro-weasal wennie.
OK raptor. You are not a "cowardly, Euro-weasel weenie". You are a "courageous, hard working, take no crap from ass-hats cowboy". Feeling better now?

Robert Crawford
Your president made this claim about the link between Al Quaeda and Iraq. What? Don't you trust him?

By the way, I am not Stevey Robinson. I do not know who is. Looking at your reaction, he must be someone who is less âpatrioticâ than you are. Probably a liberal (gasp!).

Posted by Stephen 2003-8-28 5:46:53 PM|| 2003-8-28 5:46:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#47 ...but the ideology was whatever Saddam says it was.

Reminds me of someone... The rest of the definition as well.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-8-28 5:55:05 PM|| 2003-8-28 5:55:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#48 Okay folks, time to go. Although the level of civility was somewhat disappointing, it was nice chatting with you. I know some of you think I am anti-American, Saddam-lover, weenie European. Well... you can think whatever you want. I like America(ns) and more importantly the principals that the U.S. has promoted for the last 5 decades. However, I fear that with 9/11 at least some of you have forgot those principals and turned into an angry HULK. It is bad for you, for your soldiers, for your economy, and it is bad for the world. You have spend and continue to spend your financial and military resources to a target that remotely (if any) threatened you. All these talks about providing support (WMD, finance, etc.) can be made at least several other countries in the world. Now, you are over-stretched and have no capability to prevent a threat that may come from another place (say N. Korea, Syria, Iran. By the way, where are those "neo-cons" who were talking about invading other countries in the list?).

I hope someday you come to your senses. In the meantime everybody will suffer. Those soldiers fighting in Iraq and Iraqi civilians trying to survice in that "terrorist magnet" will suffer more than you and me who have the luxury to discuss these issues on the internet while drinking coffee.

Last word: a "true ally" is not the person who tells you what you want. Just because someone criticizes you doesn't mean that he is your enemy.

Posted by Anonymous 2003-8-28 6:23:16 PM|| 2003-8-28 6:23:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#49 The last post is mine,
S.

Posted by Stephen 2003-8-28 6:24:32 PM|| 2003-8-28 6:24:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#50 Thanks, True German Ally, for your reassuring words.

Of course I meant no disrespect; in fact I meant great respect by the moniker Kraut. And I regard the term Cowboy applied to me to be in fact a great compliment. I am from Oklahoma and I am a true blue honest to goodness Oklahoma State University Cowboys fan. GO POKES!

And I stand by my statement about German infantry being the finest in the world. From what I understand, most military experts would agree with me that despite the presense of Green/Commies in the German government, the German Army has maintained a standard of excellence in military matters that goes back many, many decades. It is truly a comforting thought knowing our Kraut allies will be there with US in helping to eradicate Afghanistan of Islamists.

I post here because many of the people who post here are in fact very irreverent towards things politically correct. Here, we get to call things as we see them; not how we think others want them to be seen. Doing the latter means to lie.

So, Raptor I guess you are right now feeling about as out of place as Jerry Falwell at a Hamas terrorist planning meeting. So be it.

You can call me Cowboy, you can call me Redneck, but whatever you do, don't call me after 2200.

Posted by badanov 2003-8-28 6:35:49 PM|| [http://www.rkka.org] 2003-8-28 6:35:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#51 "And of course Stephen would be one of the first to complain: 'Why didn't anybody try to prevent it?'"

Somehow I doubt that he and his kind would complain. My suspicion is he would be very happy.

"UN troops versus US troops in Iraq is not the issue"

Just as an aside, there was an article in the Fincial Times (London) a couple of weeks ago about the outsourcing of military duties to private military contractors such as DynCorp, Vinnell Corp. (responsible for training the Iraqi police) etc. I bring this up because there was an interesting photo in the Polish magazine FORUM showing German troops in Kabul consulting with DynCorp's security personnel (who look uncannily like US special forces did in the early campaign in Afghanistan; remember those beards and baseball caps?)

Posted by Raphael 2003-8-28 6:39:49 PM|| 2003-8-28 6:39:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#52 Stephen, if you had followed my postings here for just a few weeks you would know that I'm not the person who tells others here what they want to hear. Far from it. Nor are you required to.

But I see an ally as someone who stands by his friend even IF he doesn't always agree with him. And helps those who have been protecting him for half a decade. Without asking how much it would cost.

What would YOU have proposed to do after 9/11? Waiting for the next one? Maybe in Berlin?

Posted by True German Ally 2003-8-28 6:43:11 PM|| 2003-8-28 6:43:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#53 badanov, I wouldn't know exactly how good German infantry is today. The Bundeswehr has to live with serious financial cuts and outdated material. And of course, no real combat experience. But they won't run away when things get tough.

Actually I'd say the Bundeswehr is better at fixing things than breaking them. Which may be exactly what is needed. In Afghanistan, and elsewhere.

Posted by True German Ally 2003-8-28 6:50:48 PM|| 2003-8-28 6:50:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#54 "...a target that remotely (if any) threatened you."

Well, see, here's where you and most people who post here, differ. Pretty much every argument pro- or against the war boils down to this issue. BTW, aren't you happy that Saddam can no longer terrorize his own people?? That brings no joy to you? Or do the anti-American blinders prevent you from seeing any good whatsoever that the US has done?

"...have no capability to prevent a threat that may come from another place..."

You misunderestimate our American friends. (yes, that is a word. And I use it with pride.)

Posted by Raphael 2003-8-28 6:51:07 PM|| 2003-8-28 6:51:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#55 Stephen: You wanted web links about non-Arab Iraqis fighting in Iraq? And you don't want them from, how did you put it, "faith based intelligence sources?" How about a few of these...there are many many more:

Syrians join Iraq 'jihad'

Palestinians signing up to fight for Baghdad

Some Arab volunteers returning home: report

Hussein's tumble jars long-held Arab beliefs

Posted by R. McLeod 2003-8-29 1:55:45 AM|| 2003-8-29 1:55:45 AM|| Front Page Top

15:43 Flaming Sword
20:38 Super Hose
13:24 Aris Katsaris
11:39 Aris Katsaris
10:09 Highlander
02:20 R. McLeod
01:55 R. McLeod
01:32 R. McLeod
23:54 GregJ
23:33 Raphael
23:27 Raphael
22:58 tu3031
22:54 Fred
22:49 BigFire
22:47 BigFire
22:23 tu3031
22:16 Alaska Paul
22:16 g wiz
22:09 Super Hose
22:01 Aris Katsaris
21:59 Super Hose
21:55 snellenr
21:50 Super Hose
21:44 Super Hose