Article

2005-12-29 Britain

Let us play: New creed for ancient churches

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Posted by Fred 2005-12-29 00:00|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 I have rolls and rolls of film from a week wondering into the churches of Florence and Pisa. It's one of my favorite vacations. Wasn't just the architecture but the sense that the old-timers really knew something about getting you indoors to connect you to the Almighty. Wonder if any of the present-day Italians feel that way?

Posted by Steve White">Steve White 2005-12-29 00:07|| 2005-12-29 00:07|| Front Page Top

#2 The next time time any of you make it to England try and get to see Greenstead Church. Its an undiscovered gem. A wooden church built in the eighth century. I grew up a few miles away and was completely unaware of its existence until about ten years ago. BTW, thousand year old Norman churches are a dime a dozen in the area.

Posted by phil_b">phil_b 2005-12-29 03:07|| http://autonomousoperation.blogspot.com/]">[http://autonomousoperation.blogspot.com/] 2005-12-29 03:07|| Front Page Top

#3 Great post Fred. I've visited many a British Church/Cathedral in my days - my mother used to love to stop at any an all of them. It annoyed me then, but I'm glad of it now. But that was years ago.

They are glorious symbols of the beauty and tradition that was once contained both inside and out for thousands of years. The music, learning, fellowship and (lowers voice so as not to offend) faith.

Today, as in many of our major Protestant churches here in America, they are more often than not empty because they are spirtually empty. Throw your money in the plate and ease your guilt for the collective sins in the world. No additonal effort is required on your part.

Personally, I have little problem with the idea of circus performers in St. Paul's - it somehow seems a fitting venue for what the Anglican church has become. Besides, it hardly means the end of the spirit of Christ that was once contained within: Joy, hope, faith, love, forgiveness and redemption. A mansion does not make a home any more than a cathedral makes a church. It is the spirits inside them that give them life...or the lack thereof.

Posted by 2b 2005-12-29 08:20|| 2005-12-29 08:20|| Front Page Top

#4 The Anglican church has ceased to exist as a Christian Church, at least doctrinally. And that has caused it to die spiritually, which is now being reflected in the physical churches themselves. It was bound to happen, given the original resons for the founding of the Church of England and the lack of any real theological or spiritual leadership in the Church for the past century. The only place the Anglican Church is doing well at all is in the Third world, which is philosophically much more tradtional and conservative than the ArchDruid of Canturbry and his gang of limp "anything goes" syncophants. You may as well be a zarathustrian if you dont really want any strong beliefs, and if you dont want God active in your world view (as the Anglicans seem to have discarded the Holy Trinity as being central), why not be done with it and be a Buddhist or an athiest? Its much more honest intelectually.

A theology that asks little and gives little will eventually be little.

Same goes for the traditionalist protestant churches world-wide: they are growing while the liberal "main line" protestant denominations fade into becoming a pale imitiation of the bloodless and rootless Unitarians.

On the Catholic side of things: There is now a "fight" for the doctrine of the Catholic Church similar in nature. Luckily, we Catholics have the Traditions, Magestarium and a couple thousand years of deep (and conservative) scholarship to draw upon, and we have had a steadfast Pope who was conservative (John Paul the Great), and his successor Benedict XVI is similarly inclined. They have laid the groundwork by appointing conservative bishops world-wide who carry on the work of JP-tG. And there is also the Church Militant rising from the laity: many of us are working hard to bring reform to the bishoprics that have been saddled with asses, like the Archdiocese of Los Angeles (Mahoney is an unmitigated disaster!), and Boston (which is only now recovering from Cardinal Law's ineptitude and mismanagement, and his focus on wordliness that nearly destroyed the Church there). We are reminding our shepherds that some of us are sheepdogs, not sheep. And we will drive off the shepherds we see harming the flock, treating them the same as we would any wolves.

If only we could get more good bishops, archbishops and cardinals like Archbishop Chaput in Denver: his Archdiocese actually turns out enough priests to where it can help other dioceses! It is a conservative theology school from all that I have been able to find on the internet - and there is the "secret" to it all:

The adherence to the incorruptible core values of Christianity, the rock upon which faith is founded. Abandon those and you abandon Christianity, leaving you with nothing but empty rhetoric, empty souls, and empty buildings. The Anglican Church is finding this out the hard way.

Posted by Oldspook 2005-12-29 10:05|| 2005-12-29 10:05|| Front Page Top

#5 A very sad transition that we're watching before our eyes. "Many of the buildings being converted are cavernous structures erected in the 18th and 19th centuries.." When one walks through these awe inspiring buildings you really appreciate and admire the essence in the history, beauty and grace that they have. The locals never seem to realize what a gold mine in history and beauty that is in their backyard. They seem to take many of these buildings for granted.

Add the addition of mosques and the strong beliefs that go along with it, makes me not want to predict what is ahead.

Posted by Jan 2005-12-29 10:27|| 2005-12-29 10:27|| Front Page Top

#6 "David Self, the local Church of England vicar, watching 20 teenagers training to become circus performers."

This must be the "Big Tent" philosophy of congregational inclusion I've been hearing about.

Posted by DepotGuy 2005-12-29 10:35|| 2005-12-29 10:35|| Front Page Top

#7 You know, Jan, itâs not that hard to mount a minaret in that spot where the steeple with the cross used to be....

England, after all, belongs to Allah!

Posted by Secret Master 2005-12-29 11:20|| 2005-12-29 11:20|| Front Page Top

#8 If only we could get more good bishops, archbishops and cardinals like Archbishop Chaput in Denver: his Archdiocese actually turns out enough priests to where it can help other dioceses!

That's amazing, OldSpook! I have never heard of that (unfortunately...but considering my old diocese was saddled with a loser like O'Brien, it was amazing there were any priests at all left in Phoenix....)

Posted by Desert Blondie 2005-12-29 11:49|| http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com]">[http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com] 2005-12-29 11:49|| Front Page Top

#9 SM, I was actually thinking that too, but thought all of the christian windows and decor would deter this train of thought.
I would much rather see the circus in there

Posted by Jan 2005-12-29 13:11|| 2005-12-29 13:11|| Front Page Top

#10 I want to see it Phil.

Posted by Leon Clavin 2005-12-29 15:55|| 2005-12-29 15:55|| Front Page Top

#11 The Muslims manged to turn the Haggia Sophia in Istanbul into a mosque without any problem or qualms, simply by covering the human figures with plaques (many with lovely Arabic calligraphy thereupon). The Haggia Sophia is now a museum rather than an active mosque, but the Turkish government hasn't yet seen fit to uncover the covered Christian bits. Nor, under the current government, is that likely to happen anytime soon. So turning as many as needed English churches into mosques shouldn't pose any difficulties... and no doubt the Anglican authorities would be thrilled at the multi-culturalism of the whole thing.

Oldspook, you and your various cohorts of sheepdogs keep up the good work!

Posted by trailing wife 2005-12-29 17:07|| 2005-12-29 17:07|| Front Page Top

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