Article

2004-12-15 Home Front: Culture Wars

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Steve 2004-12-15 10:48:33 AM|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Anything with the Duke. We need another Duke.

Posted by Yosemite Sam 2004-12-15 11:20:19 AM|| 2004-12-15 11:20:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 I don't care if it's not technically a "movie"--"Band of Brothers" is the best damn production about men at war EVER.

Posted by Dar 2004-12-15 11:25:46 AM|| 2004-12-15 11:25:46 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 The Blue Max
The Horse Soldiers
Breaker Morant

Posted by badanov 2004-12-15 11:33:12 AM|| [http://www.rkka.org] 2004-12-15 11:33:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Barbarians at the Gate [Stalingrad]

Posted by lex 2004-12-15 11:35:02 AM|| 2004-12-15 11:35:02 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Dr. Strangelove
Paths of Glory

Posted by Roy Williams 2004-12-15 11:44:14 AM|| 2004-12-15 11:44:14 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 I agree with you Dar (with the qualifier that I haven't seen every war movie) about BoB. I have the boxed set, but I still watch every time it's on The History Channel. (I also love the fact that Dick Winters endorsed GWB and recorded some phone messages for him.) Although it was pretty lame as a movie, "To Hell and Back" (about Audie Murphy) was great because of Murphy's amazing service. I also like "A Bridge Too Far." Finally, the LOTR movies are great movies about the war between good and evil and, indirectly, about the WoT.

Lex, I think you mean "Enemy at the Gates." "Barbarians at the Gate" was about a hostile takeover in the '80s.

Posted by Tibor 2004-12-15 11:45:28 AM|| 2004-12-15 11:45:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 Band of Brothers was the best war miniseries or movie I've ever seen. Lots of scenes stand out, but the toppling of those 88s in the 2nd? episode has stuck most. The series was accurate, focused on an ignored area (episode dedicated to the medic - Doc Roe).

No mention of "Top Gun", though?

Posted by Mason 2004-12-15 11:46:13 AM|| 2004-12-15 11:46:13 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 FRAUD! It's missing Twelve O'Clock High.

Posted by 2b 2004-12-15 11:50:25 AM|| 2004-12-15 11:50:25 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 Saving Private Ryan

Masterpiece ..........

Posted by tex 2004-12-15 11:53:31 AM|| 2004-12-15 11:53:31 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 The Dirty Dozen.

Master and Commander

Posted by Angash Elminelet3775 2004-12-15 11:55:28 AM|| 2004-12-15 11:55:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 AE3775--Thanks for mentioning "Master & Commander"--That is another excellent work! I completely forgot about that, and that reminds me of the wonderful A&E "Horatio Hornblower" series. Truly great works that deserve mention.

Mason--Those 88s turned out to be 105mm guns that would likely have caused hundreds of casualties on Utah if Lt. Winters and Easy hadn't taken them out. An interesting note: According to the BoB book, that battle, which appears to take 5-10 minutes in the TV series, actually took nearly THREE HOURS.

Posted by Dar 2004-12-15 12:04:17 PM|| 2004-12-15 12:04:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 What about "Bridge Over the River Kwai"? (Alec Guinness as the quintessential British military officer....)

Posted by Desert Blondie 2004-12-15 12:06:54 PM|| 2004-12-15 12:06:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Lex, I think you mean "Enemy at the Gates." "Barbarians at the Gate" was about a hostile takeover in the '80s

Right. I always mix up Khrushchev and Henry Kravis.

Posted by lex 2004-12-15 12:09:24 PM|| 2004-12-15 12:09:24 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 I found moments in 84 Charlie MoPic and The Thin Red Line that were superb. It seems every film wastes time on stereotypes and subplots that have only passing interest or value (duh, I'm no critic or expert on cine verite'), but there are moments in which you know that someone who was there got the point across to the director here and here. Those two movies contained such moments, IMHO.

Posted by .com 2004-12-15 12:24:59 PM|| 2004-12-15 12:24:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Go Tell the Spartans (1978)
A great movie about Vietnam in 1964, before large numbers of American ground troops were committed. The Americans were still in an "advisory" and support role, although they were already fighting and dying. Burt Lancaster is at his best as the dead-ended but still professional Major Asa Barker.

Posted by Steve 2004-12-15 12:32:59 PM|| 2004-12-15 12:32:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 I also forgot one of the best war films ever made: Pork Chop Hill

Posted by badanov 2004-12-15 12:34:17 PM|| [http://www.rkka.org] 2004-12-15 12:34:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 What about A Bridge Too Far? Another arrogant British military blunder leading to high casualties. Charge of the Light Brigade anyone?

Posted by Rightwing 2004-12-15 12:46:36 PM|| 2004-12-15 12:46:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Where is Red Dawn?

Posted by Brett_the_Quarkian 2004-12-15 12:58:00 PM|| 2004-12-15 12:58:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 " Where is Red Dawn? "

In the trash !!

Posted by Bill Clinton 2004-12-15 12:59:34 PM|| 2004-12-15 12:59:34 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Platoon. Apocalypse Now. We need to be reminded that, as Sherman said, "War is Hell. There is no way to refine it." Not only is it hell, but it can be lunacy at the same time. As Lincoln said: "Each side believes that God is on it's side. We cannot both be right, and may both be wrong."

Posted by Weird Al 2004-12-15 1:07:06 PM|| 2004-12-15 1:07:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 I love "The Light Horseman". Wonderful ending with the last successful cavalry charge in history.

Posted by mmurray821 2004-12-15 1:07:19 PM|| 2004-12-15 1:07:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 What about the Big Red one, 12 o-clock high, Flying Tigers, or the Battle of Britain? Lest we forget the classics. I also enjoyed Enemy at the Gates, a pretty good story of the Russian defense of Stalingrad.

Posted by Cyber Sarge 2004-12-15 1:18:42 PM|| 2004-12-15 1:18:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 In In Harm's Way Peter Lawford plays a Congressman who resigns to enlist in the Navy. He figures it'll do his career good when the war's over, though naturally he doesn't intend to do any fighting, but instead spend the war as an admiral's PR flack. His plans get changed when the admiral sends him forward to spy on John Wayne. When I learned the details about Kerry's Swift Boat service, I wondered if it was something like that, or if that was unfair to Kerry.

Posted by Angie Schultz 2004-12-15 1:53:59 PM|| [http://darkblogules.blogspot.com] 2004-12-15 1:53:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 Windtalkers did a disservice to the Navajos. It was too hollywood. It sucked.

Das boot. What about Das Boot.

As far as Band of Brothers, the fifth episode was by far the best. That is the one where Winters went to Paris. Breaking Point, where Spears takes over Easy Company was my second favorite.

Posted by Penguin 2004-12-15 1:55:50 PM|| 2004-12-15 1:55:50 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 "Cross of Iron" with James Coburn.

Posted by Deacon Blues 2004-12-15 1:57:19 PM|| 2004-12-15 1:57:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 Hey, guys -- what about "All Quiet on the Western Front?"

Posted by Infidel Bob 2004-12-15 1:57:21 PM|| 2004-12-15 1:57:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 "Cross of Iron" was great--the German movie "Stalingrad" is also a good one to rent (or buy) on DVD!

Posted by Dar 2004-12-15 2:00:22 PM|| 2004-12-15 2:00:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 Full Metal Jacket was so close to greatness it hurts. Mathew Modine's narration was limp but seeing the battle of Hue was amazing. Add that to the first section of Apocolypse now and you've got an incredible Vietnam film.

Still I like Kelly's Heros because its fun, and mostly accurate, and produced at the height of the hippy anti-war haze.

Posted by rjschwarz 2004-12-15 2:11:16 PM|| [http://rjschwarz.com] 2004-12-15 2:11:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Hell no you didn't forget Full Metal Jacket!

Posted by BH 2004-12-15 2:17:17 PM|| 2004-12-15 2:17:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#30 I second Das Boot (director's cut).
I would also kill to see a modern spec-fx remake of A Bridge Too Far (though Sean Connery was a perfect Urquhart), make it about six hours long.

Posted by (lowercase) matt 2004-12-15 2:32:28 PM|| 2004-12-15 2:32:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#31 Dar--thanks for that (105s).

Posted by Mason 2004-12-15 2:37:14 PM|| 2004-12-15 2:37:14 PM|| Front Page Top

#32
#26 Hey, guys -- what about "All Quiet on the Western Front?"
Posted by: Infidel Bob 2004-12-15 1:57:21 PM

Yup , that has to be by far and away the best war movie ever , even though its anti war hehe . case rested . Any of the other bollox is just eerr , bollox ..

Posted by MacNails 2004-12-15 2:50:39 PM|| 2004-12-15 2:50:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#33 I'd also throw in (as an honorable mention) the 4th Season of BlackAdder - Blackadder Goes Forth which took place during WW1 and had a pretty powerful final scene.

Posted by rjschwarz 2004-12-15 3:05:53 PM|| [http://rjschwarz.com] 2004-12-15 3:05:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#34 .com - When I saw Blair Witch Project for the first time I knew nothing about it (especially the filming method). 30 seconds into it I knew exactly how it was going to end because the only other movie I'd seen filmed like that was 84 CharlieMoPic.

Posted by Laurence of the Rats 2004-12-15 3:24:17 PM|| [http://www.punictreachery.com/] 2004-12-15 3:24:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#35 rjschwarz: Mathew Modine's narration was limp but seeing the battle of Hue was amazing.

The gunbattle with the sniper made little sense to me. I've read that the traditional approach in these situations (still used today) is to knock down suspect buildings down with artillery. But the movie itself was wonderful, even if much of it was filmed in the UK.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-12-15 3:24:21 PM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2004-12-15 3:24:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#36 Cross of Iron...very good Deacon. Midway is a so-so on the list. The story is important but as a movie, it wasn't all that good. Bad acting and too much footage lifted from Tora Tora Tora...which I think is the best of the bunch. What about Gallipoli?

Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-12-15 3:29:10 PM|| 2004-12-15 3:29:10 PM|| Front Page Top

#37 "Battle of Britain" There is a very academic love story who nearly spoils the movie but there are many scenes with Spittfires and it is about those so few we own so much so watching it is a patriotic duty for any Rantburger except TGA

"The longest day" Still more impressive after visiting Omaha Beach. They landed at low tide and the beach is a very flat one, meaning they had no cover for hundreds of yards and there are steep hills at about one or two hundred yards of the beach. Nearly impossible to climb for an unencumbered man. Only one narrow breach in the hill range to leave the beach. A perfect deathtrap. You should watch the movie just before the visit, rewatch it just after and think.

"The Big Red One" by Samuel Fuller. It has the flavor of a movie made by someone who had a been real soldier.

"Pork Chop Hill"

"Saving Private Ryan"

"We were soldiers"

"Objective Burma" of Raoul Walsh. There is French movie, I think it is by Truffaut, where two friends, about 18 to twenty years old, discuss about movies: "Have you seen the last Antonioni movie" "That is the cinema of impotent (he uses the french word about erectile problems) pretention, Raoul Walsh that is the real greatness" And he leads his friend to a projection of Obejective Burma.

A movie honoring Marines in Okinawa or was it at Iwo Jima where they have to disamentle a rocket base. Dodn't remember the title.

"Alexander Nevski" Greatest propaganda movie in history

"Mash". In order to enlighten the atmosphere. It made me a football fan.

Posted by JFM 2004-12-15 3:44:00 PM|| 2004-12-15 3:44:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#38 JFM: Title you're searching for: "Halls of Montezuma" Dar's mention of Stalingrad is excellent. Great film.

Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-12-15 4:21:31 PM|| 2004-12-15 4:21:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#39 "Kelly's Heroes!"
__

"Arf Arf! That's my other dog imitation..."

Posted by borgboy 2004-12-15 5:17:15 PM|| 2004-12-15 5:17:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#40 Does Ron Artest's and Steve Smith's battle with Detroit basketball fans count?

Posted by Capt America 2004-12-15 5:49:45 PM|| 2004-12-15 5:49:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#41 LotR - I didn't see BW, but since the style of 84CMP was so distinctive - I follow your drift. Sorry it ruined BW for you, however, lol! The stumbling across / overrun of the Japanese camp in The Thin Red Line really hit home with a couple of scenes. The chaotic firefight where two forces become mixed and everyone is shooting in every direction - or trying to suddenly get flatter than a water buffalo patty, heh, is classic reality.

Posted by .com 2004-12-15 5:59:36 PM|| 2004-12-15 5:59:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#42 Gotta love Kelly's Heros. "Burning bridges lost forever more." Find my self humming it at the oddest times.

Posted by Weird Al 2004-12-15 6:06:54 PM|| 2004-12-15 6:06:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#43 lets not forget
Macarthur - kinda slow but accruate
and
U-571

Posted by Dan 2004-12-15 6:11:27 PM|| 2004-12-15 6:11:27 PM|| Front Page Top

#44 lets not forget
Macarthur - kinda slow but accruate
and
U-571

Posted by Dan 2004-12-15 6:12:26 PM|| 2004-12-15 6:12:26 PM|| Front Page Top

#45 Zhang Fei, the book shorttimers (which the movie was based on) has two seperate sniper scenes. One in Hue where the tank blasts building after building trying to get the sniper while infantry are crawling in and around trying to smoke him out before the tank blows them up; and a second in the jungle (where Joker has to shoot his friend Cowboy who is wounded to stop the marines going in one after another trying to save him and getting shot up). The movie merged the two scenes which probably led to your confusion.

Posted by rjschwarz 2004-12-15 6:46:06 PM|| [http://rjschwarz.com] 2004-12-15 6:46:06 PM|| Front Page Top

#46 I'd throw in the Halls of Montezuma with Richard Widmark- compare his character to Captain Miller in Saving Private Ryan.

Good to see the mention of Gallant Hours and The Longest Day. For me the Longest Day has always been the war movie.

Posted by Matt 2004-12-15 8:26:58 PM|| 2004-12-15 8:26:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#47 Angie
>In In Harm's Way Peter Lawford plays a Congressman who resigns to enlist in the Navy. He figures it'll do his career good when the war's over, though naturally he doesn't intend to do any fighting, but instead spend the war as an admiral's PR flack. His plans get changed when the admiral sends him forward to spy on John Wayne.<

It was Patrick Neal not Peter Lawford. But still a great movie.

Dave

Posted by davemac 2004-12-15 9:35:38 PM|| 2004-12-15 9:35:38 PM|| Front Page Top

#48 I would include a forgotten but excellent Vietnam movie, Jump into Hell, about French paras at Dien Bien Phu.
The recent History Channel production Ike was in much the same vein as The Gallant Hours (though very different in style),with Tom Selleck doing a remarkable job in the title role.

Another TV production, TNT's Roughriders, also deserves mention. It made a hash of history in some respects: German advisors fighting at San Juan Hill is a multiply debunked WW1 conspiracy theory and Sam Elliott's portrayal of Bucky O'Neill is laughable for anyone who knows anything about the real O'Neill.
OTOH, the accuracy of the visuals; uniforms, weapons, equipment and sets; is remarkable. John Milius directed so the weapons in particular would have to be accurate.
Tom Berenger's portrayal of Teddy Roosevelt was trashed by some ignorant critics, but astonishingly convincing for anyone who knows about the real TR. It was probably as good as Martin Landau's Oscar-winning and near-legendary portrayal of Bela Lugosi in Ed Wood.
The montage of the Roughriders traveling across the country by train perfectly captures the patriotic fervor of the time, and the full vocal rendition of "Garryowen" is a great rarity.
A much ignored aspect of the Spanish-American War, its role in the final reconciliation of North and South, gets quite a bit of play. Gary Busey was a lot of fun as ex-Confederate General Joe Wheeler, though not much like the real Wheeler.

Posted by Atomic Conspiracy 2004-12-15 10:26:39 PM|| 2004-12-15 10:26:39 PM|| Front Page Top

#49 Das Boot should have been there in place of Bismarck.

And Saving Private Ryan should have been in there in the top ten too, well ahead of Windtalkers - the first scene is as close to real combat sights and sounds of a stand-up firefight that you will ever see on the screen.

Posted by OldSpook 2004-12-15 10:56:28 PM|| 2004-12-15 10:56:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#50 They Were Expendable, directed by John Ford, starring Robert Montgomery, John Wayne, and Donna Reed. Now, we don't really know how effective the PT boats really were, but it's a great movie.

Run Silent, Run Deep, directed by Robert Wise, with Clark Gable and Bert Lancaster. Has any sub film made after this not stolen its plot?

The Man Who Would be King and Gunga Din. Do you like Kipling?

Henry V. Sir Larry, not Kenneth Branagh.

Gallipoli. Why do you think Mel Gibson dislikes the British?

Ran, directed by Kurosawa.

Wings, winner of the first Oscar for Best Picture.

Let's add non-battle films, such as The Americanization of Emily, Stalag 17, and Von Ryan's Express. If you have kids around, pair The Great Escape with Chicken Run. :-)

And, finally, The Best Years of Our Lives and Casablanca.

Posted by Eric Jablow 2004-12-15 11:21:18 PM|| 2004-12-15 11:21:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#51 The Cruel Sea

A story of the Battle of the Atlantic, C 1953, based upon a novel by Nicolas Montserrat. Some mush, but great story about men and the sea in wartime. Great line: something like this: "You learned how to strain your eyes in the fog at night, how to endure incredible fatigue, and how to die without wasting other people's time."

Posted by Alaska Paul 2004-12-15 11:26:08 PM|| 2004-12-15 11:26:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#52 Let's see. WW1: Paths of Glory (proving the French have always been assholes).
WW2: Battleground, Saving Private Ryan, Attack (Jack Palance, Eddie Albert, Lee Marvin. Rare, but if you see it listed, watch it.) The Story of G.I. Joe, To Hell and Back. Run Silent,Run Deep. Lot's more I can't think of right now. Band of Brothers was outstanding.
Korea: Pork Chop Hill, MASH.
Vietnam: Full Metal Jacket, Hamburger Hill. Platoon, if you ignore Ollie's agenda.
Others: Blackhawk Down. I'll remember about a hundred more after I hit the button.

Posted by tu3031 2004-12-15 11:26:11 PM|| 2004-12-15 11:26:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#53 Away All Boats, Dawn Patrol (even with a very young Paul Newman's lame acting), The Sand Pebbles.

Posted by Pappy 2004-12-16 12:02:58 AM|| 2004-12-16 12:02:58 AM|| Front Page Top

#54 Das Boot should have been there in place of Bismarck.

And Saving Private Ryan should have been in there in the top ten too, well ahead of Windtalkers - the first scene is as close to real combat sights and sounds of a stand-up firefight that you will ever see on the screen.

Posted by OldSpook 2004-12-15 10:56:28 PM|| 2004-12-15 10:56:28 PM|| Front Page Top

#55 Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]

Posted by OldSpook 2004-12-15 10:56:28 PM|| 2004-12-15 10:56:28 PM|| Front Page Top

21:56 Chineter Spoluger1554
21:54 Chineter Spoluger1554
21:54 Chineter Spoluger1554
21:52 Chineter Spoluger1554
21:52 Chineter Spoluger1554
16:21 lex
16:21 lex
16:20 lex
16:20 lex
16:19 lex
16:19 lex
16:19 lex
16:19 lex
16:18 lex
16:18 lex
00:11 phil_b
00:02 Pappy
23:53 anonymous2U
23:51 phil_b
23:49 trailing wife
23:45 Pappy
23:43 Pappy
23:41 trailing wife
23:40 ed