Article

2005-12-26 Iraq

New Iraq Parliament Chin Deep In Happy Horse Trading

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Posted by Anonymoose 2005-12-26 09:44|| || Front Page|| [11126 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Sigh. You need a program to follow all of this, especially the more subtle aspects.

Haggling, lol, Arab bread 'n butter.

The notion of putting Jaafari back in as PM should be a non-starter, since he was amazingly ineffective, but perhaps this is much like the reconstruction days in the South: You don't want effective politicians...

The "suggestion" of holding elections again in 6 months, heh, anybody see a similarity to the Arab penchant for endless conferences and meetings, so nothing ever actually gets done, nothing is ever actually finished? Reminds me of some companies I've contracted for...

I suggested, just once of course, lol, that one particular oil company should change their company slogan to "Zero Deliverables" - a play upon the "Zero Defects" signs I had seen at all of the military installations as a kid. It was not taken in the spirit in which I had offered it, lol.

How about a national slogan contest...

~~Iraq: The Land Between The Two Rivers~~

Iraq: My Ayatollah Can Beat Up Your Ayatollah

Posted by .com 2005-12-26 10:57|| 2005-12-26 10:57|| Front Page Top

#2 Remember that the organization of the US, in its constitution, was designed to prevent laws from being passed.

What will be critical in Iraq will in fact be based on how long and how much the government can stay out of the way, allowing private enterprise to rebuild their economy before the bureaucrats and apparatchiks can slam on the brakes.

Sad to say, the US missed a rare opportunity to get rid of the Iraqi code Napoleon legal system inherited from the French, and replace it with our far superior Common Law system. This means that someday, Iraq will have to face up to the same chronic problems of Europe: the stifling of initiative and a bloated elistist bureaucracy.

However, in the meantime, hopefully their government will impress upon all their legitimacy and efficiency in maintaining their national defense and their internal security. If these two substantial tasks are met, then their future as a nation is all but assured.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-12-26 11:46|| 2005-12-26 11:46|| Front Page Top

#3 Moose, do you know of an instance where civil law has been successfully replaced by common law? Quebec?

This is a decision that the people themselves should make, not the victor unless it wants to sign up for a 4 generation colonization, minimum, with lot's of resistance, i.e. bloodshed, in my opinion.

Civil law leads to long periods of ineffective corrupt governance with brief interruptions of men on white horses, as opposed to the common law alternative of long periods of ineffective corrupt governance with brief interruptions of crises so severe effective leaders have a chance to emerge.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2005-12-26 12:03|| 2005-12-26 12:03|| Front Page Top

.com : Iraq: My Ayatollah Can Beat Up Your Ayatollah

...but then such a battle has to be promoted properly...

Posted by BigEd 2005-12-26 12:19|| 2005-12-26 12:19|| Front Page Top

#5 Nimble Spemble: the best example is Italy, though it is an odd case.

It had used Civil Law for an extended period, until a peculiar situation happened: Perry Mason re-runs on television. The Italian judicial system was brought to a halt because the average Italian knew more about Common Law criminal proceedings than Civil Law. Eventually it was decided that they should adopt Common Law for this reason.

It was standing room only in the largest courtroom at Milan's Palace of Justice. About five minutes after the trial began, a defense lawyer rose and said, 'Mi oppongo, Signor Presidente' -- 'Your honor, I object.' At those words, everyone in the court, including the judge, broke into a thunderous round of applause. It might be a moment no one in that courtroom will forget.
It was also the first time that interruption, considered routine in American procedures, had been heard in an Italian court.
The trial last month in Milan was make-believe of the best kind: the rehearsal for a legal revolution to take place on, and forever after, Oct. 24. On that date Italy's antiquated criminal code will be changed and court procedures replaced by processes modeled on Anglo-American law. Everyone in the courtroom that morning was either a judge or a lawyer, assigned as a member of the audience or reciting a role cast from a script based on a real trial (involving a stolen fur coat).
The change is already being hailed as an American import. Even though U.S. legal procedures are the legitimate offspring of English law, Italy's new procedures are being referred to as 'bringing in Perry Mason' -- the lawyer invented by the late novelist Erle Stanley Gardner. "Italian Law Is Moving Into 'Perry Mason' Era," Los Angeles Times, 5/28/89.

Posted by Anonymoose 2005-12-26 13:01|| 2005-12-26 13:01|| Front Page Top

#6 Unhappy to see the extent of Iraq's dominant political spectrum reach from Ahmadinejad all the way to Rafsajani, with the occasional ineffective Khatami thrown in for show.

The election results were a clear fraud designed to bring all of Iran's agents in charge. America should denounce them and insist they be repeated, with the threat of its troops' immediate departure.

The Iranian stooges are still dependent on the US military forces to save them from a Sunni/secular revolution.

Posted by Aris Katsaris">Aris Katsaris 2005-12-26 13:10|| 2005-12-26 13:10|| Front Page Top

#7 Moose,

Thanks. That definitely goes in the learn something new every day category. But procedure is not law. Nonethe less, it will be interesting to see how long it takes for the introduction of the assumptions and principals behind adversary procedure in criminal proceedings finds its way into the law itself.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2005-12-26 13:16|| 2005-12-26 13:16|| Front Page Top

#8 Giving up on elections since France trashed your "constitution," Aris? I'm sure there was some fraud, but that doesn't make the whole election fraudulent anymore than Chicago machine politics makes U.S. federal elections fraudulent.

Horse trading is a good thing -- a necessary thing. It's compromise. It's how good government works. As for these individuals making their announcements, we have plenty of that going on in Washington. Kennedy and Kerry and Pelosi don't get to the White House by making their announcements. Don't sweat it.

Posted by Darrell 2005-12-26 13:24|| 2005-12-26 13:24|| Front Page Top

#9 Giving up on elections since France trashed your "constitution," Aris?

Nice fucking insult there, Darrell. Reminds me to not even attempt civility in what is to follow. Ofcourse from my point of view it's you who've given up on elections and democracy, when you are prepared to declare *every* pretend-election legimitate, even if there's a few hundred thousand voters added illigimately, even if there are reports of people voting 10 times apiece in Sadr City.

I'm sure there was some fraud, but that doesn't make the whole election fraudulent anymore than Chicago machine politics makes U.S. federal elections fraudulent.

How *nice* of you to admit to "I'm sure there was some fraud." How *safe* an analogy you are making.

Your "I'm sures" have nothing of knowledge backing them up. But I'm part of the reality-based community and when I declare these elections fraudulent I'm basing it on things like this.

Will you try to mention whereever you are basing the idea that "you are sure some fraud took place" but that it wasn't significant?

Or will you try to insinuate yet again that I'm being undemocratic, when I've repeatedly shown myself the most interested in democracy than you all?

Or is the conservative definition of democracy so fluid that you can extend it to cover even these sham elections?

Posted by Aris Katsaris">Aris Katsaris 2005-12-26 13:45|| 2005-12-26 13:45|| Front Page Top

#10 Take your medicine, Aris. Good day.

Posted by Darrell 2005-12-26 13:49|| 2005-12-26 13:49|| Front Page Top

#11 As I imagined, you won't support your claims of the elections being legitimate, even though I supported my own claims with a link providing detailing information. You'll merely insult instead.

Typically cowardlike of you. Have a nice day!

Posted by Aris Katsaris">Aris Katsaris 2005-12-26 13:52|| 2005-12-26 13:52|| Front Page Top

#12 Joe Katsaris with a potty mouth...nice

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-12-26 13:55|| 2005-12-26 13:55|| Front Page Top

#13
Joe 2008

Posted by XXXMAS PAST 2005-12-26 14:07|| 2005-12-26 14:07|| Front Page Top

#14 The worst insults have the pretense of civility behind them, Frank.

But your shallow and ultimately fake and hypocritical respectability (remember back when you were laughing along over calling me a "cunt" or a "goatfucker"?) is to object to my usage of the word "fucking", but to not object to an insinuation that it's some sort of leftover spite from the French referendum that has supposedly turned me against democracy.

Shallow and hypocritical: typical Frank.

Posted by Aris Katsaris">Aris Katsaris 2005-12-26 14:08|| 2005-12-26 14:08|| Front Page Top

#15 Aris is unhappy for some reason. I worry. He's our best troll by far. Grad school is still an option, put off reality for another 3 years and hope things change.

Posted by Leon Clavin 2005-12-26 14:11|| 2005-12-26 14:11|| Front Page Top

#16 I already postponed reality for three years, spending it acquiring a Master's diploma, Leon, but thanks anyway.

And I'm not a troll. When I argue in favour or against something, I argue because of the issue's importance, not to disrupt for disruption's sake, unlike other people here who've already pretty much admitted to it.

Posted by Aris Katsaris">Aris Katsaris 2005-12-26 14:16|| 2005-12-26 14:16|| Front Page Top

#17 I still worry that you're extra unhappy today. Is a Ph.D an option?

Posted by Leon Clavin 2005-12-26 14:24|| 2005-12-26 14:24|| Front Page Top

#18 No, Leon, the four-and-a-half months that remains of my army service is all the putting-off-real-life I intend to do anymore, and only because I can't help it. I wouldn't go for a Ph. D. if you paid me.

Posted by Aris Katsaris">Aris Katsaris 2005-12-26 14:29|| 2005-12-26 14:29|| Front Page Top

#19 IIRC I never called you a c*&t. I had better slurs. Have a happy whatever

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-12-26 14:30|| 2005-12-26 14:30|| Front Page Top

#20 Frank, I said you were laughing along over someone else (namely Robert) calling me a "cunt". Have a nice whatever, you too.

Posted by Aris Katsaris">Aris Katsaris 2005-12-26 14:32|| 2005-12-26 14:32|| Front Page Top

#21 I understand the Hellenic Army is going all pro. Perhaps you can avoid the remainder of your stint.

Posted by Leon Clavin 2005-12-26 14:33|| 2005-12-26 14:33|| Front Page Top

#22 Perhaps you can avoid the remainder of your stint.

It'll be years before they make it all-pro, assuming it ever happens. It wouldn't affect me who am already serving.

Posted by Aris Katsaris">Aris Katsaris 2005-12-26 14:42|| 2005-12-26 14:42|| Front Page Top

#23 Frank, I said you were laughing along over someone else (namely Robert) calling me a "cunt". Have a nice whatever, you too.

Did you hire a nanny to nurse your grudge?

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-12-26 15:25|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-12-26 15:25|| Front Page Top

#24 I understand that the existence of long-term memories is always inconvenient to the hypocrites, Robert.

As for nursing my grudges, no need to hire anyone else when you and Frank are so adequate to the task.

Posted by Aris Katsaris">Aris Katsaris 2005-12-26 15:50|| 2005-12-26 15:50|| Front Page Top

#25 Hope you have a nice New Year, Aris.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2005-12-26 16:06|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2005-12-26 16:06|| Front Page Top

#26 I humbly hope he learns to keep his word. It's what adults do.

Posted by Ebbavins Unagum8110 2005-12-26 20:58|| 2005-12-26 20:58|| Front Page Top

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