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2007-12-23 Home Front: Politix
Illegal immigrants packing up and leaving Arizona
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Posted by gorb 2007-12-23 04:22|| || Front Page|| [11134 views ]  Top

#1 This is sketchy, at best. To start with, you can't believe *anything* the "advocates" say; they are as unreliable as "homeless advocates".

Second, why go to Mexico when they could go to the much friendlier California or New Mexico? (Not Colorado, as it is cracking down, or Utah, as the gaming industry only hires legals. Though the Mormons in Utah might help if they are Mormon.)

Third, a lot of legal/illegal families are going to decide that their legal members are the breadwinners, while the illegals make money in the underground economy, or just support the legals.

That is, there are "workarounds". If women are illegal, they just stay at home and make legal babies. The men either work at cash jobs, which many do already, or they do stay at home work, which is then bartered by the legals. "Juan is a good worker, he does the work of three men. He does his best work at home."

There is going to be an explosion in the number of fake IDs, as thoroughly Americanized illegals will fight tooth and claw to stay here. For them, Mexico is a foreign country, they don't speak Spanish well, and have no relatives there. It might as well be Albania.

And since this only affects employment, the illegals will still be going to public school, emergency rooms, and everything else they currently do, including driving without either a license or registration.

And yet, none of this is going to be in the papers, much. It is a mess no matter what happens.

On the plus side, ugly middle aged guys can come here and pick up a young, good looking 18 year old illegal Mexican girl for a bride. Sure it's a lot of paperwork, but they won't get lucky any other way.

And if he takes her to Utah or Nevada, she only has to be 16. (It could be worse. In South Carolina, it's 14.)
Posted by Anonymoose 2007-12-23 10:33||   2007-12-23 10:33|| Front Page Top

#2 "They don't want to live in fear, in terror."

Terror, fear? The reality is that most crimes against whites are committed by other whites. Most crime committed against black is by blacks. I would expect that real terror and fear is not generated from the INS, it by crime committed by illegals against other illegals. The only calculation that could be in their minds is that the crime committed in the community on this side of the border is becoming greater than the crime committed on the home side of the border.
Posted by Procopius2k 2007-12-23 11:58||   2007-12-23 11:58|| Front Page Top

#3 #2, just one legal American robbed, raped or killed by an illegal alien is too many. If the illegal was where he belongs there would be no victim.

And there are many more that one. Sounds like you need an invite to the hospital bedside or grave site ceremonies. That would keep you busy for a ling time.
Posted by Throger Thains8048 2007-12-23 12:57||   2007-12-23 12:57|| Front Page Top

#4 Oops. LONG time....
Posted by Throger Thains8048 2007-12-23 12:58||   2007-12-23 12:58|| Front Page Top

#5 Throger Thains8048: Poor logic. The same could be said about blacks and Africa, Italians, or even the Irish. If the Irish were sent back to Ireland, there certainly wouldn't be an Irish mafia in Boston.

There are a small percentage of illegals who commit crimes, relatively not that much more than the percentage of other races who commit crimes.

So while there may be a reasoned argument against illegals in the US, this isn't one of them, as it smacks of racism, not of nationalism.

It took at least 50 years to make this problem as messy as it is. And no solution is going to make it any the less messy. So the only consideration is to start trying solutions hoping for good effects, while trying to mitigate the bad effects and unintended consequences.

No matter what we do, even if we do nothing, lots of people are going to get hurt. Pretending otherwise is self delusion; but being indifferent to the hurt inflicted on others is just mean.

AZ has made a good start, but as strong as it seems, its impact will be tempered and restrained, and it will also have lots of consequences, intended or not.
Posted by Anonymoose 2007-12-23 13:14||   2007-12-23 13:14|| Front Page Top

#6 They don't have to be kicked out entirely. They just have to get legal status and pay taxes, get insurance, get an address, learn to drive, etc. Best way to do that is to make illegal status less convenient than illegal. I'll bet anyone here a dollar I could come up with a way to accurately verify legal status. Someone just has to have the political balls to do it. And I don't know why it takes political balls. The legal status solution would work and get rid of a lot of "take advantage of them" behavior.
Posted by gorb 2007-12-23 14:49||   2007-12-23 14:49|| Front Page Top

#7 Millions who enter each year (as census indicates) already have a legal status: Mexico.

Our country is a melting pot, not an over-flow for ONE country.
Mexico's only chance of reform must come from within... and NOT in America.

This remains the best explanation: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=1e2_1188492536
Posted by MB 2007-12-23 15:17||   2007-12-23 15:17|| Front Page Top

#8 There are a small percentage of illegals who commit crimes, relatively not that much more than the percentage of other races who commit crimes.

I call bullshit. A great big steaming pile of bullshit. 100 precent of all illegals are criminals.

but being indifferent to the hurt inflicted on others is just mean.

And I don't care. They can kiss my ass. They're not Americans. They're Mexican criminals. Better to be mean than to subscribe to the mass undermining of the very Rule of Law that makes this country the reason they want to be here. Preserving Rule of Law requires that we send these people back to the shitholes from whence they came. If Rule of Law is tossed out the window because we don't want to be 'mean', this country has nothing to hold it together.
Posted by I think you dropped this 2007-12-23 15:38||   2007-12-23 15:38|| Front Page Top

#9 Bah, that was me.
Posted by Mike N. 2007-12-23 15:40||   2007-12-23 15:40|| Front Page Top

#10 Illegal immigrants, by definition, are here illegally. If you want to call that 'criminal', fine.

But if I were a struggling campesino in deep Mexico, with a starving campesino wife and six starving campesino children, I have to say that chopping up chickens for eight dollars an hour in Iowa would start to look pretty good.

And if, in the process of trying to feed my family, someone wants to label me an 'illegal', well, I'd suppose I'd manage to take that in stride.

Mexico is a country that needs substantial reform. We can talk about the need for the people there to stay home and fix their country. Then again, it's hard to ask people, particularly people with families, to be brave, and brave when their country has a history of stepping hard on people who were brave before them.

So I don't have much complaint with the ones who are here. And given the competency of the ICE, it's not like we can round them up. Maybe some will go home if we make our laws draconian enough, but I'm not sure that's good for America long-term.

Why not just hire Judge Dredd? I wouldn't want to live in that kind of America, either.
Posted by Steve White">Steve White  2007-12-23 15:55||   2007-12-23 15:55|| Front Page Top

#11 Take for an example; yesterday I waited over 30 minutes in line to correct a huge over-charge on my phone bill... Finally got to the front, and the representative wouldn't speak to me in English!
...Evidently it was a Spanish line! (?)

Like, where’s the need to be constitutionally assimilative?

Too bad it is not only just a sense of humor that Americans are loosing here… But retreating droves will definitely bring it back! :)



Posted by MB 2007-12-23 15:59||   2007-12-23 15:59|| Front Page Top

#12 My position has been clear - illegals have no place in this country. They should be deported. If we have legal immigration, and we should, these linejumpers spit in teh face of every foreigner working hard (and they do) to become American citizens. I see naturalization ceremonies every other month or so at San Diego Convention/City Hall complex. These people from all parts of the world are there to celebrate their new country and the hard work they put in to call themselves citizens of teh United States. Illegals are here to make money (which they send back to Mexico) and gain benefits they haven't earned.

Build the fence and THEN we can talk about guest-workers in certain industries/fields that need em, but NO amnesty and no open borders, and the "story" that they don't commit more crimes is utter BS. As someone who's lived their entire life along the US/Mexico border, I should know
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2007-12-23 15:59||   2007-12-23 15:59|| Front Page Top

#13 We are not the solution to Mexico's problems.

It is only the elements of a Nation who STAND for its betterment, that reform it.

The citizens of Mexico MUST act brave to challenge reform in Mexico, as this is the problem.
I am told that those who could use their support (in Mexico) to push for essential elements (such as water systems) have low turn-out because they are in the US!

Mexico had better prioritize its own Sovereignty; before it’s suddenly a larger Colombia.

Posted by MB 2007-12-23 16:18||   2007-12-23 16:18|| Front Page Top

#14 Enforcing the laws is a helluva long stretch from Judge Dred. Its more like Judge Judy.
Posted by Mike N.  2007-12-23 16:52||   2007-12-23 16:52|| Front Page Top

#15 As an aside, I found a web page which lists interesting statistics (key findings) about criminal activities by illegal aliens. More than making any argument, there is some really interesting stuff on the front page. Check it out:

http://www.urban.org/publications/410366.html

Here are a few more unusual bits:

*The major offenses for which illegal aliens were convicted in federal court in 1995 were unlawfully entering the United States (47 percent of the total), drug trafficking (27 percent), other immigration offenses (11 percent) and fraud (5 percent).

*For U.S. citizens and legal aliens, drug trafficking and fraud were the most common major federal offense conviction.

*In Florida (Cubans?), the most common offense among illegal aliens in state prisons was murder. Both illegal and legal aliens in Florida were far more likely than aliens in other states to have been convicted of violent offenses against a person.

*In 1995, California accounted for more illegal aliens sentenced in federal courts than any other state, 31 percent of the total. Texas had the next highest number of illegal aliens, 18 percent; together these two states accounted for about half of the illegal aliens sentenced. Other states with large number of illegal aliens sentenced were New York, Arizona, Florida, Oregon, and Washington.
Posted by Anonymoose 2007-12-23 17:02||   2007-12-23 17:02|| Front Page Top

#16 The southwestern states and the largest cities have been taken over by an incredible crime wave. The facts are:(FBI/INS) 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegals. 83% of warrants for murder in Phoenix are for illegals. 86% of warrants for murder in Albuquerque are for illegals. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles, Phoenix, and Albuquerque are illegals. More than 71% of all apprehended cars stolen in 2005 in Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and California were stolen by illegal aliens or transport "coyotes." 47% of cited/stopped drivers in California have no license, no insurance, and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 47%, 92% are illegals. 63% of cited/stopped drivers in Arizona have no license, no insurance, and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 63%, 97% are illegals. 66% of cited/stopped drivers in New Mexico have no license, no insurance, and no registration for the vehicle. Of that 66%, 98% are illegals. More than 53% of all investigated burglaries reported in California, New Mexico, Nevada, Arizona, and Texas are perpetrated by illegals. More than half of all gang members in Los Angeles are illegal aliens from south of the border.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1919295/posts
Posted by Procopius2k 2007-12-23 17:25||   2007-12-23 17:25|| Front Page Top

#17 "And if, in the process of trying to feed my family, someone wants to label me an 'illegal', well, I'd suppose I'd manage to take that in stride."

Pack your bags and head out with them. We won't miss you, either.
Posted by Jomosing Bluetooth8431 2007-12-23 17:33||   2007-12-23 17:33|| Front Page Top

#18 WOW. Whoda thunk it? I was lowballing their crime figures!
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2007-12-23 17:33||   2007-12-23 17:33|| Front Page Top

#19 Procopius2k: I suspect that is too good to be true.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/taxes.asp

To start with, the FBI and INS would probably not issue a mutual report. And while this report is all over the Internet, it is mutually reflective, that is, there is no link to the original, which is a good indicator that it is bogus. Such reports are always available to the public.

Snopes.com does mention that some of the data was made in testimony before Congress, but not by either the FBI or INS, but by a lobbyist, without attribution.

And while snopes doesn't have a direct reference to the report itself, bit and pieces of the information, open to interpretation, appear elsewhere. Often with qualifications that would take away from the impact of the raw data.
Posted by Anonymoose 2007-12-23 18:28||   2007-12-23 18:28|| Front Page Top

#20 moose, every report I've read has had to be pushed through past the resisitance of the immigrant lobby, meaning they don't want you to know the truth. Every report that is published by commisions, committes, and think-tanks is done with an agenda, usually pro-illegals.

If your car is stolen in San Diego, chances are it's in Mexico. If you're hit by an unlicensed, uninsured driver, chances are it's an illegal. Facts are nasty things. Don't get on the wrong side of the truth, your credibility is at stake.
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2007-12-23 18:47||   2007-12-23 18:47|| Front Page Top

#21 “There's no way to know how many illegal immigrants are leaving Arizona…”

Don’t’cha just love these Bullshit articles that try to slip in the essence of the story half way through. It’s almost like they treat the only fact here like it’s an addendum. Does anyone want to venture a guess as to why there's no way to know how many illegal immigrants are leaving Arizona? Here’s a hint. There's no way to know how many illegal immigrants are in Arizona at any given time! Oh sure, there’s plenty of estimates Just like the “official US” illegal alien population estimate has a plus or minus ratio of five fuckin million people. Odd how that that little ditty alone isn't enough drama for the media. Sigh...guess there's not enough..."conflict".
Posted by DepotGuy 2007-12-23 18:54||   2007-12-23 18:54|| Front Page Top

#22 If I was home, south of Albuquerque, I could post a better reference. However, my own experience with the local news reporting crime and motor vehicle accidents go closer to this report, than the denials by people not living there. Remember these are open warrants, not arrests. Arrests tend to sort out at a different proportion, but when you can run for the border, usually the warrant is something that will likely not be cleared and they accumulate.
Posted by Procopius2k 2007-12-23 20:54||   2007-12-23 20:54|| Front Page Top

#23 I just did a Google search of "+immigrant +illegal +impact", and got 384,000 hits. I haven't gone through more than half a dozen so far, but from what I gather, the impact of illegal immigration is staggering. Several reports put the costs in the millions of dollars per year, one puts them in billions. There's also evidence of economic impact in many other areas, including identity theft, criminal cases, and more. I'm going to take a couple of weeks and go through this mess. I'll provide a place for all of you to read and comment on it later.
Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot  2007-12-23 22:17|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]  2007-12-23 22:17|| Front Page Top

#24 When illegals have become a safety and crime problem in rural Indiana, things have gone way too far.

Posted by Rob Crawford">Rob Crawford  2007-12-23 22:23||   2007-12-23 22:23|| Front Page Top

#25 P2K: Terror, fear? The reality is that most crimes against whites are committed by other whites. Most crime committed against black is by blacks. I would expect that real terror and fear is not generated from the INS, it by crime committed by illegals against other illegals.

Most crimes (>50%) are committed by blacks. Most crimes committed against blacks and whites are committed by blacks. It is also likely that more crimes are committed against whites by illegals than by other whites. Why? For the same reason Willy Sutton robbed banks. Because that's where the money is.
Posted by Zhang Fei 2007-12-23 23:09|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2007-12-23 23:09|| Front Page Top

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