Article

2007-11-15 Britain

P 38 Emerges From The Sand On Welsh Beach

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Posted by Grunter 2007-11-15 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11125 views ] Top

#1 At the rate with which our current generation is so quickly forgetting the lessons of WWII, I'll say that we should spend megabucks rescuing these worthy warbirds. If only to ensure that there remain some examples of what it took to quash the previous enemies of a free world. We'll have to do it all over again right soon and I hope that those involved fail to feel every little bit of hesitation as those who preceded them.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-11-15 00:50|| 2007-11-15 00:50|| Front Page Top

#2 Hey, if no one wants it, I'll take it. It's my favorite plane from WWII.

Posted by Silentbrick">Silentbrick 2007-11-15 01:33|| 2007-11-15 01:33|| Front Page Top

#3 Mine, too. Tough planes, and beautiful in an ungainly way.

Posted by Rob Crawford">Rob Crawford 2007-11-15 05:37|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2007-11-15 05:37|| Front Page Top

#4 It's my understanding that although there were many twin-engine fighter types produced by all sides during WWII - primarily for the "bomber destroyer" role - this plane was the only truly successful twin-engine all around fighter that was mass produced in the war. It also saw service in other roles such as ground attack, tactical bombing, and recon/radar. A remarkable design for the time.

Posted by no mo uro 2007-11-15 07:15|| 2007-11-15 07:15|| Front Page Top

#5 No mo,
The Lightning was only surpassed by the twin-Merlin engined DeHavilland Mosquito, which literally did every combat mission there was during the war - and which the RAF tried very hard at one point to kill.

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2007-11-15 07:24|| 2007-11-15 07:24|| Front Page Top

#6 There were three of these flying at the Chino air show this past spring. And the P-38 association had several vets there, signing photos and the like.

Zen, the loss of WWII common sense and perspective is alarming, and embodied by the passing of the vets, now in full swing. But as many serving officers have said, today has its own Greatest Generation, that being a small subset of their full cohort.

Posted by Verlaine 2007-11-15 08:34|| 2007-11-15 08:34|| Front Page Top

#7 Tiny advantage goes to the Lightning because it could fight in all theatres. The Mosquito had problems in the tropics because of it plywood glue.

Posted by Thomas Woof 2007-11-15 09:02|| 2007-11-15 09:02|| Front Page Top

#8 Kelly Johnson's P38...check!

Posted by Red Dawg">Red Dawg 2007-11-15 09:40|| 2007-11-15 09:40|| Front Page Top

#9 P-38 vs. DeH Mosquito courtesy of the Warbird forum
(BIG thread)

LINK

Which is best depends on the mission, of course, but for overall-adaptability, the P-38 gets the nod.

Posted by mrp 2007-11-15 10:38|| 2007-11-15 10:38|| Front Page Top

#10 I saw two of them at Rickenbacker this summer during the "gathering of legends" air show. What a plane!

Also had about 80 P-51s. Yeah, eight-zero. I just wanted to rub my body all over them. Well. . . you know what I mean.

Posted by GORT 2007-11-15 10:46|| 2007-11-15 10:46|| Front Page Top

#11 I've read pilot comments that with the guns positioned as they were, it was alot easier to hit than with wing mounted guns. Plus if you hit, generally the whole group of guns hit and just ripped the target apart. Yay for the cone of death:)

Posted by Silentbrick">Silentbrick 2007-11-15 10:58|| 2007-11-15 10:58|| Front Page Top

#12 Tough planes, and beautiful in an ungainly way.

World War II's Warthog.

and which the RAF tried very hard at one point to kill.

If you ever want to read a truly disturbing book, grab a copy of Project Cancelled by British author Derek Wood. Jeepers! I just noticed that this bookwhich I bought for a few bucks in a thrift shopis now selling for up to $200.00!!!

The author goes into gory detail of case after case where the British government and military repeatedly snatched defeat from the jaws of aviation victory. One of the most stunning was how original British designs (TSR-2?) that were bludgeoned to death by burdensome multi-role requirements eventually became the basis for Dassault Industry's Mirage fighter jet, one of the best-selling export aircraft of all time.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-11-15 12:40|| 2007-11-15 12:40|| Front Page Top

#13 the loss of WWII common sense and perspective is alarming, and embodied by the passing of the vets, now in full swing. But as many serving officers have said, today has its own Greatest Generation, that being a small subset of their full cohort.

I thank my effing stars that America still has a core of patriotic young men and women who understand how irreplaceable individual liberty and freedom truly are. We have been at peace for so long that far too many people have forgotten that freedom doesn't come for free.

Between the One World Government types, Multiculturalists and Politically Correct newspeakers, never has free-market democracy been at such peril. Short of outright civil war, it is difficult to foresee exactly what it will take to extinguish these misguided and often viciously malign opponents of freedom.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-11-15 12:48|| 2007-11-15 12:48|| Front Page Top

#14 Which is better a P38 or a DH Mosquito?

Ask Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, he'll tell you.

The P38's Maiden flight January 1939 Introduction into Army Air Force 1941
Number built 10,037

It could do everything..

Air to Air: It could kick the Zero's A$$ when flown by a pilot who knew how to use it's advantages.

BTW, it's not my fav warbird from WWII either.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

DH.98 Mosquito Maiden flight 25 November 1940
Introduction 1941 Number built 7,781

Posted by Red Santa Dawg">Red Santa Dawg 2007-11-15 12:52|| 2007-11-15 12:52|| Front Page Top

#15 My wife's great-uncle was a P-38 pilot in North Africa and Sicily before paying the ultimate price on 12/25/43. He had 3 confirmed and 3 probable kills in 3 months combat with that bird.

Here's to you Uncle Clifford.

Posted by xbalanke 2007-11-15 13:09|| 2007-11-15 13:09|| Front Page Top

#16 IMHO The Planes of Fame Museum in Chino, CA., has the best collection of flyable warbirds (including some WWI and inter-war years). Unlike so many others, that have only display birds, the PoF aircraft are regularly exercised; being able to rub your (hand or whatever) over the aluminum and come away with 'Oil de Engine' on your skin can make an otherwise crappy day shine. Dented leading edges, mismatched tires, a bit of rust and chipped paint is a lot more fun that looking at a display piece. The shops are slao open for one to wander through and if not careful, be handed a wrench or rag and put to work. (Better than sex, once again, IMHO)
Paul Allen in Seattle also maintains an extensive (private) collection of flyable warbirds that he periodically opens to the public. They fly out of Arlington, WA airport. The pilots he employs are probably the second luckiest group of guys in the world ( the wrench twisters are the luckiest)

Posted by USN,Ret. 2007-11-15 13:29|| 2007-11-15 13:29|| Front Page Top

#17 IMHO The Planes of Fame Museum in Chino, CA., has the best collection of flyable warbirds (including some WWI and inter-war years).

Thanks for the tip USN, Ret. I will make it a point to pop in there for a visit asap. They have a good $100 hamburger place there too called Flo's. Although you need to do a new weight and balance after you've eaten.

Posted by Intrinsicpilot 2007-11-15 14:37|| 2007-11-15 14:37|| Front Page Top

#18 You're welcome.
Last original jack Northrop flying wing, the N9MB is there and is a flyer. How that one escaped the USAF purge of the flying wings is beyond me; they have the history and story of restoration there; worth the read.
(gotta wonder about the hundred dollar hamburg you mention, tho' :) )

Posted by USN,Ret. 2007-11-15 14:58|| 2007-11-15 14:58|| Front Page Top

#19 Aluminum corrodes rapidly in salt water, I doubt it's anything but a crumbling shell.

Posted by Redneck Jim 2007-11-15 15:38|| 2007-11-15 15:38|| Front Page Top

#20 Last original jack Northrop flying wing, the N9MB is there and is a flyer.

Chino it is! [circles location on map]

Here's a fascinating to a well-written article by Bud Baker about the Northrop flying wing's history. It partially debunks the claims of corruption surrounding this revolutionary aircraft's demise.

www.dau.mil/pubs/arq/2001arq/Baker.pdf

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-11-15 16:37|| 2007-11-15 16:37|| Front Page Top

#21 Re #11: I've read as much as well. With the twin props in counter-rotation, there supposedly was no torque, and with the firepower all concentrated in the nose there was not a "cone" of death that converged at some point for maximum firepower, but rather the firepower was extended out in a line to the lowest common trajectory.

The only real drawback I'd heard of was that the pilot needed to make a good leap if he had to bail out to clear the twin boom tail.

Posted by Dar">Dar 2007-11-15 18:33|| 2007-11-15 18:33|| Front Page Top

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