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2011-10-26 Europe

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Posted by Steve White 2011-10-26 12:21|| || Front Page|| [11135 views ] Top

#1 Yeah, the euro is pretty much what holds Europe together. Europeans figured out that they couldn't stop making war on one another, and wars were driven by need for resources. So, they set up a system by which it's more expensive to go to war than not. A good idea, but jeez it's been managed poorly.

Posted by gromky 2011-10-26 12:45|| 2011-10-26 12:45|| Front Page Top

#2 her insistence that the EU treaty had to be changed, in the medium term, to be more strict on countries breaching the euro deficit rules Had the EU followed its treaty and its previously-agreed-upon rules, they wouldn't be in this mess to begin with.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2011-10-26 13:00|| 2011-10-26 13:00|| Front Page Top

#3 This sounds so familiar. Sounds like a crisis. We have to act now. Don't bother to read anything. Trust me. Like the old sci-fi energy blob that just sucks up everything. The fix just makes the market blob bigger. Germany's collateral and I'll bet you our Fed is a big player in this. Too big to fail I guess. Like arguing with a three hundred pound gorilla, you don't. Sometimes you just have to lie. I would advise each country start printing money as I believe Germany is doing now.

Posted by Dale 2011-10-26 13:15|| 2011-10-26 13:15|| Front Page Top

#4 Can we, this time around, specify that it be restricted to Europe itself---no involving the rest of the World?

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2011-10-26 13:17|| 2011-10-26 13:17|| Front Page Top

#5 This rhetoric isn't new. In fact Kohl called the Euro a 'question of war and peace' in the 90s. This year one of the likely social democratic repeated this in a public q&a.

The Euro was imposed on Germany by an authoritarian political class.

It might have gained legitimacy and acceptance over the years if it had not turned out to be a catastrophic failure.

As things are the Euro is destroying the very legitimacy of representative Western style democracy in Germany.

Posted by Thump Glinesh6358 2011-10-26 13:51|| 2011-10-26 13:51|| Front Page Top

#6 Had the EU followed its treaty and its previously-agreed-upon rules, they wouldn't be in this mess to begin with.

That's correct. The mess would have been avoided because there would be no Euro as none of the major countries would have qualified.

Posted by Thump Glinesh6358 2011-10-26 14:03|| 2011-10-26 14:03|| Front Page Top

#7 Vodkapundit has a good analysis of this.

Posted by DarthVader 2011-10-26 14:31|| 2011-10-26 14:31|| Front Page Top

#8 When the Germans warn of war I suspect their neighbors will be listening.

Posted by rjschwarz 2011-10-26 14:49|| 2011-10-26 14:49|| Front Page Top

#9 Here's a news article from 1996 concerning the the German's distrust and fear of the Euro which turned out to be fully justified.

Kohl characterized the Euro as a question of war and peace ("Frage von 'Krieg und Frieden'") as early as 1996. This isn't new.

Posted by Thump Glinesh6358 2011-10-26 15:01|| 2011-10-26 15:01|| Front Page Top

#10 German forefathers' quest for European Unification, heh.

Chancellor, if the EU was a serious about unification as you, they would have their finances in order instead of pissing cash into Greece etc. I do agree that a sudden collapse of the Eurozone would be the trigger but the expansion of EU to increase assets to offset debt is over...except for Russia, though I sure to be comforted that it would be sold as Russia joining the EU and not vice-versa.

Posted by swksvolFF 2011-10-26 15:29|| 2011-10-26 15:29|| Front Page Top

#11 Here's a news article from 1996 concerning the the German's distrust and fear of the Euro which turned out to be fully justified.

A good reminder, Thump Ginesh6358. I'll have to pull out my old pocket dictionary to help with the vocabulary I've forgotten since we moved away, which will be good for my character. ;-). But it is much more than the Euro which is destroying democracy in Euope; rather, it is the insistence of the bureaucratic class on ruling by regulations, without consulting the intent of either the elected representatives of the voters themselves.

Posted by trailing wife 2011-10-26 15:40|| 2011-10-26 15:40|| Front Page Top

#12 Does "permanent supervision" sound like a coup to anyone else?

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2011-10-26 15:46|| 2011-10-26 15:46|| Front Page Top

#13 She isn't the first Euro leader to suggest that "unless socialism, war". I think somebody should call her bluff in an entertaining way, simply by suggesting if the Euro fails, a named European country, say Germany, would go to war with another European country, say France.

Which would both cause consternation and point out how ludicrous such a threat really is.

"Italy would have no choice but to invade Austria. England would again invade and conquer Scotland and Ireland. Spain would annex Portugal. Sweden would take over Norway and Denmark."

Posted by Anonymoose 2011-10-26 17:01|| 2011-10-26 17:01|| Front Page Top

#14 Obama's Hail Mary "the insistence of the bureaucratic class on ruling by regulations, without consulting the intent of either the elected representatives of the voters themselves".

Posted by Dale 2011-10-26 17:01|| 2011-10-26 17:01|| Front Page Top

#15 If the Euro ends up bringing ruin to Germany be it by hyperinflation or some other mechanism, prepare for a new authoritarian Germany, a close ally of Putinist Russia, that will bear a deep grudge against Western Europe.

War is highly unlikely, but this scenario would be very ugly nonetheless. An alliance of the two big losers of the Cold War Russia&Germany would mean a new Cold War in Europe.

Of course the Euro would be the cause of such a development, not a precaution against it.

Posted by Thump Glinesh6358 2011-10-26 17:49|| 2011-10-26 17:49|| Front Page Top

#16 Peace indeed should not be taken for granted. Tthe ultimate teaching tales of what happens when European elites and theorists seize power is 1) fascism 2) national socialism 3) bolshevik communism 4) Marxism. Though I recognize that Im repeating myself, well, repeatedly.

The problem with Europe (this thought is not original to me) is that the leaders want to return to the days of the Congress of Vienna, in which a circle of people modestly wider than just royalty and bishops but much, much smaller than all the people were to decide how Europe and the civilized world would be run. The EU is just the latest experiment in this regard; a kinder and gentler dictat that would guide the masses, while not nearly as ultimate as the experiments conducted in the 1930s and 1940s.

The fundamental problems with each of these systems are that the elites, of course, arent all that bright in the end, and constantly squabble (with knives, firearms, bombs and perhaps, in the future, nukes) amongst themselves about who will be the head cheese. Its not the most stable way of running a continent.

The Obama administration is just the American implementation (i.e., progressivism) of my list of 1 to 4, above. It has the same problems, beginning with the fact that the American elites are no smarter than the European ones.

No, unfortunately Europe could get a lot worse. It has in the past. Merkel is correct; not about Europe but rather about the transient nature of peace and prosperity. We should be mindful of that warning here in America.

Posted by Steve White 2011-10-26 18:29|| 2011-10-26 18:29|| Front Page Top

#17 The only way to "fix" the debt problem and keep the Euro is hyper-inflation...

I'm sure a Europe wide Weimar-style republic would be everything it wasn't when the same happened in Germany...

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2011-10-26 19:05|| 2011-10-26 19:05|| Front Page Top

#18 They worked out a bailout mechanism today. All this talk about the disintegration of the Euro can drop to Defcon 4.

Posted by Mizzou Mafia 2011-10-26 19:12|| 2011-10-26 19:12|| Front Page Top

#19 Nobody should take for granted another 50 years of peace and prosperity in Europe
That's right, Frau Merkel. The US is reaching the point that it can no longer support the expense of keeping the Germans down and the Russians out, like we have done since the end of WWII.

Posted by Rambler in Virginia 2011-10-26 20:07|| 2011-10-26 20:07|| Front Page Top

#20 They worked out a bailout mechanism today. All this talk about the disintegration of the Euro can drop to Defcon 4.

That's the problem, they've worked out 'bailout mechanisms' that won't really work every day for the last four months.

Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2011-10-26 20:12|| 2011-10-26 20:12|| Front Page Top

#21 " ...Unless Socialsm, War" > The Euros missed watching PEARL HARBOR in theatre back in 2001, didn't we???

Its only been 10 years, but better late than never I suppose.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2011-10-26 20:21|| 2011-10-26 20:21|| Front Page Top

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