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2007-10-17 Home Front: Culture Wars

What made Western creativity possible? And why is it waning?

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Posted by anonymous5089 2007-10-17 05:43|| || Front Page|| [11131 views ] Top

#1 Regardless of your political or religious beliefs, we are sunk unless the true principles of Christianity, with it's foundation in Jewish law, can be revived. The ten commandments, with the Christian concepts of forgiveness and grace are the basis on which our western civilized society rests.

We need to stop thinking of Christianity in terms of Pat Robertson and Tammy Faye and get back to what it was about in the first place. This discussion is a good start.

Posted by Unutle McGurque8861 2007-10-17 06:14|| 2007-10-17 06:14|| Front Page Top

#2 There are several essential conditions for creativity in the West, as well as several known enemies of creativity. Religion can either support, be neutral to, or inhibit creativity; so it is less important in promulgating creativity itself, then in creating cultural conditions in which creativity can come to the fore.

Perhaps the most important condition is the willingness of society to permit, accept, and encourage creativity wherever it can be found. The most opaque, obscure and alien idea is greeted with curiosity and interest instead of indifference, rejection and revulsion. The new and different idea is not despised out of hand, no matter what the source.

But this also implies many other things. The encouragement of education for all. The freedom to discover, experiment, and innovate. The active pursuit of knowledge and ideas. Supporting mechanisms in the law, government and society that if they do not support, at least do not inhibit creativity.

And a society must also be willing to prevent those opposed to creativity from interfering with the creative. It must also discriminate between what is truly creative, and the pretentious repackaging of derivative and failed ideas.

Finally, capitalism matters. It is no coincidence that after the Black Death of the 14th and 17th Centuries, there was respectively the Renaissance and the Industrial Revolution. To a great extent, this was because everything became more efficient and wealth was both concentrated, and redistributed from the dead to the creative and energetic.

No longer relying on such disaster to foster creativity, we now, as a society, spend fortunes to bring about creative development.

If creativity is waning, it is only in selected areas that have become vitiated due to the influence of those opposed to creativity, for any number of petty reasons.

Some of the visual arts, for example, are stagnating, because of prostituting their art to outdated political beliefs, equating creativity with offensive imagery, and an unwillingness to learn and evolve new ideas.

Posted by Anonymoose 2007-10-17 09:18|| 2007-10-17 09:18|| Front Page Top

#3 I don't believe creativity is waning.

Games, Films, software, Project management, financial management are all seeing massive change at the moment.

The economy is based on the exchange of time via comparative advantage, not physical goods (which are a proxy for peoples time).

Posted by Bright Pebbles 2007-10-17 09:26|| 2007-10-17 09:26|| Front Page Top

#4 without the underpinnings of a creed that supports and educates the majority of individuals to restrain their selfish nature, creativity and capitalism are not necessarily good for a civilized world. Bin Laden's creative use of airplanes as bombs was not good for civilization, but detrimental. Capitalism, like human nature, unrestrained by forces that work against greed, sefishness and theft, results in sweatshops, corrupt politicians and a general preying of the strong upon the weak. Think of any third world country.

I agree that creativity is not waning and it never will. What is waning is a safe civilization that supports individual sacrfice and a goal towards a common good.

Posted by Unutle McGurque8861 2007-10-17 09:46|| 2007-10-17 09:46|| Front Page Top

#5 guess what men, our society is controlled by corrupt politicians and a general preying of the strong upon the weak.Creativity is waning to say the least, I feel the biggest culprit is the television. It allows for us NOT to think, but to remian in an Alpha state of mind. kind of like being drowsy but awake. Look at all the "original" music and art thats out there these days, NOT....
I especially see the lack of creativity in music.

Posted by Goober Omaiper6379 2007-10-17 10:24|| 2007-10-17 10:24|| Front Page Top

#6 Thanks for bringing up TV. You were starting to sound a lot like Jeremiah.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-10-17 11:16|| 2007-10-17 11:16|| Front Page Top

#7 who's Jeremiah?

Posted by Goober Omaiper6379 2007-10-17 11:19|| 2007-10-17 11:19|| Front Page Top

#8 I also think creativity is not waining. It's just moved away from the traditional arts (which are obsessed with body fluids and government grants) and into other venues.

Posted by rjschwarz 2007-10-17 11:49|| 2007-10-17 11:49|| Front Page Top

#9 who's Jeremiah?

Old Testament prophet, he predicted the fall of the Kingdom of Judah and the destruction of the first Temple in Jerusalem in 586 BCE. The word jeremiad is based on his name.

Posted by trailing wife 2007-10-17 12:15|| 2007-10-17 12:15|| Front Page Top

#10 I'm sorry, Goober was looking for the answer "Bullfrog".

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-10-17 12:24|| 2007-10-17 12:24|| Front Page Top

#11 :-) NS

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-10-17 12:47|| 2007-10-17 12:47|| Front Page Top

#12 you want creative, look to India.
We'll be doing their gardening soon

Posted by Albert Croling4797 2007-10-17 13:05|| 2007-10-17 13:05|| Front Page Top

#13 Unutle McGurque8861: No creed, as such, prevents villainy. Before the United States, the philosophical argument was, "Are people naturally good or evil?" America was the first nation founded on the idea that "people are naturally weak".

As such, our nation's organization was based on the idea that power corrupts, so it is better if nobody has all the power. And what power they do have, should be weak and difficult to wield and hold on to. It should be hard to pass new laws, and there should be strict limits on certain kinds of laws, so that they can't get passed at all.

Assuming weakness also assumed government has no ability to save us from our personal weaknesses, just to protect us from each other's weaknesses.

Ironically, in the rest of the world, those who believe that people are naturally bad assume that they need an authoritarian government to control their badness.

But those who believe that people are naturally *good* are even worse. They think that since people are good, the government that rules them must be good too.

So the more government, the merrier. They tend towards socialism and totalitarianism.

Posted by Anonymoose 2007-10-17 16:24|| 2007-10-17 16:24|| Front Page Top

#14 I have witnessed a lot of innovation within my lifetime (born late 70's) - space technologies, computers, composite materials, the chunnel and high speed trains, and so on. Innovation requires creativity. Creativity requires a safe environment; it is hard to be artistic or creative if one has to worry about one's survival - that is the freedom to be able to express oneself.

I agree that the current state of the classic humanities is in shambles when it comes to widely known works. There is good stuff out there but it is becoming more difficult to find. There is potential in the internet area of genuine creatvity coming forth but for the most part 99% of it seems to be crap. Then again how often is there a genuinely new idea?

Many of my contemporaries do not engage in active creative thought, but a few do. Work all day and hobby paint all night, good writers, myself I have created 2 unique board games and 1 vast improvement, IMHO, on a classic (Axis and Allies). I'm not sure what the ratios of previous generations of creative vs. drone is concerned but I know for sure that in my generation it is not absent merely cloaked. TV, movies, and video games have probably sucked away a good number of people who would have been creative if it were not so easy to let someone else do it for them. How that attitude came to be I don't know, but my generation seems to have inheireted a mess. All I know is that many of my liberal contemporaries misquote President Kennedy's 'ask not what your country can do' speech - then try to correct my correction. I think it has a lot to do with the teachers and general environment of where I went through grade school and college. The proclaimed artistic dorm only seemed to be a place where people got high and banged on drums and performed what can only be described as aweful parodies of beatnik poetry. Even the graffitti was abysmally unoriginal. Understanding that western creativity is based on judeo-christian history, even if not Jewish or Christian, is what is missing. Unfortunately our local color man Fred Phelps does his thing and further pushes the feeling people away. When grade school kids go to the college art museum and immediately see the Phelps cadre, allowed by the university, protesting said museum visit with signs depicting stick people having bu+*&ex what is a kid to think about Christians? My two buffalo pennies.

Posted by swksvolFF 2007-10-17 17:00|| 2007-10-17 17:00|| Front Page Top

#15 Which science fiction writer was it who said, "Ninety-nine percent of anything is crap"?

Safety and security are nice, but it seems to me that creativity flowers most when the outside world is in a state of flux. For most, new experiences trigger new ideas. For many of the rest, new ideas trigger even more new ideas. Only a very few come up with disconnect ideas without outside stimulus.

Posted by trailing wife 2007-10-17 17:21|| 2007-10-17 17:21|| Front Page Top

#16 Anonymoose, I agree with what you wrote, but I think that you are assuming that it is just the balance of power that keeps us safe. While I agree with you that it certainly is the cornerstone of our system. But don't forget that the court system can not function when the majority of individuals find nothing wrong with bearing false witness against their neigbors, if it suits their needs. Police departments built from a populace that sees nothing wrong with lying, cheating or stealing can not effectively protect as we once knew it. I could go on, but you get the point.

I think that we have discovered that the concept of democracy, as we once knew it, will not function in a Muslim or third world society because lying, cheating, stealing, bribes, and terror are all part of the general way that people operate. We in America, are only one generation away from a time when the majority of the general population actually believed in trying to do what is right for reasons other than simple selfish interest.

I'm not trying to convert you, I'm simply pointing out that the concept of individual sacrifice to do what is right for reasons other than "what's in it for me" was handed down to us from generations that believed there was something greater than themselves. We were raised by individuals who truly believed in that - or at least their parents did. If you want to see what happens when you strip that out, look at African countries that practice Christianity v/s those that do not. Look at Israel v/s it's neighbors. As we have stripped these things out of our own society, we see the results - corruption in politics, crime from broken families and a generation that sees no reason not to take from others - as long as they don't get caught.

You weren't born with the concept to do right by others, you were taught it by your mother. Call it what you want - but without that creed, we will just be another 3rd world country no matter what system of government we have.

Posted by Unutle McGurque8861 2007-10-17 18:19|| 2007-10-17 18:19|| Front Page Top

#17 The West's biggest problem is the dilution of both our cultures and gene pools.

Posted by Icerigger">Icerigger 2007-10-17 18:43|| 2007-10-17 18:43|| Front Page Top

#18 Creativity still exists. It just has to get past all the lawyers.

Posted by JohnQC 2007-10-17 18:51|| 2007-10-17 18:51|| Front Page Top

#19 Creativity? It takes a village.

Posted by Besoeker 2007-10-17 18:53|| 2007-10-17 18:53|| Front Page Top

#20 Western creativity? Didn't we outsource that a couple of months ago?

Posted by DMFD 2007-10-17 19:13|| 2007-10-17 19:13|| Front Page Top

#21 Creativity has been strangled by the EPA.
What you invented an engine that runs on pollen ?
How does it impact the environment ? You can't run it unless you have an impact study done and inventers insurance, and liability insurance covering anyone who smells, sees, hears, or even detects vibrations when your engine or anything even remotely connected with this alleged engine causes any injury, fear, concern, disturbance, ripple, buzz, whistle or peep. Additionally, an escrow of 20 million must be filed with the office of corrupt democrat union bosses pension fund for immediate distribution and future rights to purchase options to screw you out of your shorts, home, farm, or mother's property.

Posted by wxjames 2007-10-17 19:14|| 2007-10-17 19:14|| Front Page Top

#22 Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought this article is not talking about individual creativity - but more generally about which types of civilizations support an overall contribution in the arts and sciences that benefit civilization as a whole. For example, the Muslims societies have not generally supported increases in the arts and sciences. Chinese society has generally not created advances in modern technology - but certainly has a rich history in art. Christian societies (and Jewish societies as well) have seen greater advances due to the belief in a greater truth, outside of one's own existence, to be explored.

Posted by Unutle McGurque8861 2007-10-17 19:23|| 2007-10-17 19:23|| Front Page Top

#23 wxjames - I posted my last before I read your comment. I think you expand upon the point they are making. There are elements in a society that either crush or support innovation. Our society has changed to where corruption and greed squelch innovation.

Posted by Unutle McGurque8861 2007-10-17 19:26|| 2007-10-17 19:26|| Front Page Top

#24 This is a good discussion web, I am a creative. I'm a commercial photographer and am required to be creative all the time, which I am naturally, always have been since I was little. The current civilization that I work in in the USA has gotten more and more "lawyerized" as someone else mentioned,and hence alot of our "creativeness" is run through legal departments and dumbed down as a result, I see this more and more, I see terrified art directors that are scared to go with creative impulses ( some would argue that its a rarity for an art director to be creative).It doesnt matter because I can always come up with a new scenario or idea, not really a problem, the problem comes when these new ideas are killed for bad reasons( generally legal) anyway, creativity is under fire, I agree but, creatives still exist and always will.

Posted by ansel adams 2007-10-17 21:10|| 2007-10-17 21:10|| Front Page Top

#25 love your pics, Ansel. No thought of going digital and using color? Grow up, jeebus!

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2007-10-17 21:17|| 2007-10-17 21:17|| Front Page Top

#26 Lawyers have transformed themselves into the new gods of our society. They have ruined the concept of justice by turning justice into a game where they get to decide who is guilty or innocent rather than seeking true justice, as seen by the eyes of God. To them, if the court finds you innocent, then by God, you are innocent no matter how much blood you have on your hands. They have ruined the concepts of Christian forgiveness by turning us into a society that no longer believes that there is such thing as an accident that could have happened to anyone. Every car crash, every baby who drowns, someone, preferably someone with money, must be assigned blame and be made to pay. No matter if they were truly responsible or not - just can they be assigned the blame as decided by the lawyers and courts. They have ruined business with excess regulation. They are ruining innovation in the creation of new medicines by law suits, they have hampered our ability to fight a war for our civilization - and now as a last straw, I realize they are also crushing the arts and sciences. Damn the lawyers.

Posted by Unutle McGurque8861 2007-10-17 21:31|| 2007-10-17 21:31|| Front Page Top

#27 I tend to view this as an ongoing problem, Example as a kid I wanted a Go Kart, my dad said NO (Citing traffic, law, no license plates, no driver license, etc,) all good and reasonable objections.

So I made one, yes it wasn't very good, made of wood, and powered by a two horsepower lawnmower engine, but it worked, and my dad was both proud and fearful that I'd kill myself.

Over the years I made several, the last had a Vespa engine and four speed transmission, would do 55 easily, and probably scared my father to death but I never got hurt, never got in trouble with the law, and learned a lot about how machines worked.

later I quit building faster and faster Go Karts, as I was now old enough to have and drive cars, but I never lost that "How does it work" curiosity, and have built and driven some hellacious contraptions, (63 Falcon Ranchero with around 500 horses under the hood) I've broken many a transmission, destroyed several rear axles (Overpowered) and had to heavily modify suspensions that couldn't handle the strain.

In short if dad had said "Sure Son I'll buy you a Kart" I would never have had the drive to build, test, modify, and LEARN that I do now, and have had the whole of my life.

It's the challenge that's missing today, not the opportunity, you MAKE your own, as you can.

When My house was destroyed by a falling tree, I bought some books and made my own home, as with the first Go Kart it wasn't perfect, but it was larger, more comfortable, and as I paid for the materials as I went, completely debt free.

And all from My father saying NO.

Posted by Redneck Jim 2007-10-17 21:57|| 2007-10-17 21:57|| Front Page Top

23:32 Zenster
23:28 Zenster
23:20 Zenster
23:18 Unutle McGurque8861
23:06 Bright Pebbles
22:46 Unutle McGurque8861
22:46 JosephMendiola
22:40 JosephMendiola
22:37 JosephMendiola
22:30 Alaska Paul
22:24 Alaska Paul
22:22 trailing wife
22:17 Alaska Paul
22:15 Unutle McGurque8861
22:14 trailing wife
21:57 Redneck Jim
21:39 trailing wife
21:35 lotp
21:32 lotp
21:31 Unutle McGurque8861
21:30 whitecollar redneck
21:28 Broadhead6
21:27 Redneck Jim
21:24 Broadhead6