Article

2014-10-03 Science & Technology

American cameraman for NBC News diagnosed with Ebola in Liberia

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Posted by g(r)omgoru 2014-10-03 06:03|| || Front Page|| [11129 views ] Top

#1 NBC will do anything to boost ratings.

My apologies in advance for the insensitive nature of my comment.

Posted by airandee 2014-10-03 06:29|| 2014-10-03 06:29|| Front Page Top

#2 Insensitive. When dealing with journalists. How is it possible?

Posted by g(r)omgoru 2014-10-03 07:17|| 2014-10-03 07:17|| Front Page Top

#3 So, he got what he went after. If he lives, he'll write a book, it gets make into movie, he's played by Ben Affleck. If he doesn't live, well, that's the only part that changes.

Posted by ed in texas 2014-10-03 07:28|| 2014-10-03 07:28|| Front Page Top

#4 Stupid doesn't live to be old. AND he works for NBC.

Posted by Big Thromoth3646 2014-10-03 08:20|| 2014-10-03 08:20|| Front Page Top

#5 More good news: we know Typhoid Mary puked all over the sidewalk outside the apartment. That was on Sunday.

Yesterday, a cleaning crew hired by the CDC hosed down the site with a pressure washer. They wore no special gear. Guess what else pressure washers do? Make aerosols.

Anyone who insists ebola can't spread through aerosols is talking out their a$$.

CDC guidance:

Health care staff should avoid performing aerosol-generating procedures on suspected or confirmed patients. If performing these procedures, personal protective equipment should include respiratory protection – N95 filtering facepiece respirator or higher – and the procedure should be performed in an airborne isolation room.

So. Count those poor bastards as exposures, who are not being monitored.

Further, the mess sat there for 4-5 days, where birds and animals could sniff and lick at it. Then fly away, or go home and lick their owners.

So now there's a possibility of a natural animal reservoir in the Dallas area. That's why there are repeated outbreaks in Africa.

But don't worry, the regime has everything under control.

Posted by RandomJD 2014-10-03 08:54|| 2014-10-03 08:54|| Front Page Top

#6 Natural animal reservoir is mammalian, not avian. Bats. Fruit bats in its native environs. Doubtful any native reservoirs exist for this in the urban Dallas area in any significant numbers.

As far as precautions the CDC cites this is no big deal, and not news. Contact and droplet isolation are routinely done at any hospital: this means gloves, mask, gown and a face shield (eye protection).

If the cleaning crew was using a contact solution (5% bleach as is typical for this sort of bio cleaning) in their washers, then the aerosol stuff is not a concern. If they are using tap water, then there might be an issue - it depends on how long the virus lives outside the body in fluids, which typically is measured in hours, not days. Fomite transmission is very unlikely as a source.

Specific surfaces and substances listed and tested here. The entire journal article is here

Posted by OldSpook 2014-10-03 09:50|| 2014-10-03 09:50|| Front Page Top

#7 OldSpook,

a couple of points come to mind:
1) You're probably right about risk levels.
2) The panic level should be kept to a minimum.
3) Nobody in gov't. CDC is trustworthy so the first two points are probably moot.

The CDC used to have credibility but such crusades as gun control and obesity and second hand smoking have overdrawn that account.

Posted by AlanC 2014-10-03 10:04|| 2014-10-03 10:04|| Front Page Top

#8 CDC includedis trustworthy

fixed the fat finger.

Posted by AlanC 2014-10-03 10:05|| 2014-10-03 10:05|| Front Page Top

#9 3) Nobody in gov't, CDC included, is trustworthy so the first two points are probably moot.

Exactly my underlying assumption, AlanC. The CDC has become as politicized as any other agency. I assume competency levels are about the same as at the Secret Service and the VA.

Posted by RandomJD 2014-10-03 11:02|| 2014-10-03 11:02|| Front Page Top

#10 OS, I'm sure you're right. I meant only to illustrate that it's not a closed system, but a leaky one. Ebola is also not some overhyped garden-variety virus like swine flu or SARS. I think people should be worried, and paying attention, and not counting on Uncle Sugar to keep us safe.

The Case For Panic

"These dangers are real, and pressing, and though the probability of their occurrence is not high, it is amplified by the staggering incompetence and failure and misplaced priorities of the U.S. government. It is not Ebola I am afraid of. It is our government’s ability to deal with Ebola."

Posted by RandomJD 2014-10-03 11:15|| 2014-10-03 11:15|| Front Page Top

#11 Odd thing is, flu spreads a lot more quickly and easily than Ebola. Same goes for that Enterovius D68 that's putting scores of kids in hospitals across the US.

Posted by OldSpook 2014-10-03 11:38|| 2014-10-03 11:38|| Front Page Top

#12 Re: Bats as resovior for Ebola.

Buoyem bat-caves closed to tourists over Ebola

I can think of a good use for a few Thermobaric weapons....

Posted by Martin de Medici6501 2014-10-03 11:46|| 2014-10-03 11:46|| Front Page Top

#13 ? More stumble-bum allegations, from this morning's ABC news (just an excerpt):
Patient Zero's nephew, Joe Weeks, told ABC News: he

had concerns that the hospital wasn't aware that Duncan may have been infected with Ebola. Weeks said that he called the hospital to report his concerns about Duncan’s condition – and when he didn’t get the reaction he wanted, he called officials at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Department of Health, at which point Duncan was put in isolation.

“They had him in the ER, like any other patient, and I didn’t think that was the right procedure,” Weeks said.

“I don’t know how long it was going to take, but I wasn’t trying to wait to see how long it was going to take, so I pre-empted and called CDC and reported that there might be a possible Ebola case in Texas. But the hospital was not doing what it needed to do at that time,” he said.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2014-10-03 12:34|| 2014-10-03 12:34|| Front Page Top

#14 The hospital computer system is at fault - the nurse took the history, had his travel in it. Problem is, the Obamacare mandated electronic health system that was hastily implemented FAILED to present this information to the doctor, who sent him home - absent the history, this was just another uninsured patient with a stomach bug. He did NOT have the information to make the call for Ebola, despite the Nurse and others recording the info. Sad thing is, a paper chart would have had this in the Kardex and the Doc would have seen it in the H&P (History and physical). Asking about travel is routinely done as part of the admit/triage of any hospital or clinic.

Do NOT fault the medical personnel - they were doing the best with what they have.

DO fault the illegal aliens and other uninsured who have turned the ER into the routine doctors office instead of using a local clinic. They overload the system and limit the time and attention that can be given. Massive amounts of illegals have a negative impact, and this is one place its most acutely felt - not that the Liberian population in Dallas was illegal, but that the ER is so frequently overloaded with them that such streamlining has to be done to triage and care. Its a systemic issue that hte open border tools never acknowledge.

Also fault the patient! He KNEW he had been exposed, lied on the forms and traveled anyway. And apparently never told anyone until the ambulance came to get him.

FYI - the cameraman was a local contractor - he apparently was exposed days before starting to work with NBC. Now the whole NBC crew is quarantined for observation.

Posted by OldSpook 2014-10-03 12:56|| 2014-10-03 12:56|| Front Page Top

#15 Individual with Ebola symptoms admitted to a hospital in Washington DC.

Posted by Ebbomosh Hupemp2664 2014-10-03 13:08|| 2014-10-03 13:08|| Front Page Top

#16 Short WAPO piece ref #15 above.

Posted by Besoeker 2014-10-03 13:16|| 2014-10-03 13:16|| Front Page Top

#17 Granted, OS - but the mortality rate of flu and EV68 isn't 70%. Seventy freaking percent.

Posted by RandomJD 2014-10-03 13:24|| 2014-10-03 13:24|| Front Page Top

#18 Do NOT fault the medical personnel - they were doing the best with what they have.
I DO NOT AGREE. There is nothing in this news story which supports the failure of the personnel involved to simply TALK TO patient Zero.
Now if Zero lied about his travel history or had been incapable of giving it, that would make it different.
This part of the discussion is starting to resemble some of the Katrina story of 9 years ago out of NOLA, particularly the part where the generators of the biggest hospital in town turned out to have been designed to lie below sea level, and the hospital itself having negleced to include a helipad on its property or having planned a total evacuation in case of levee failure / total electric grid failure. In 2005 that was not "doing the best with what they have", either.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2014-10-03 13:46|| 2014-10-03 13:46|| Front Page Top

#19 And apparently never told anyone until the ambulance came to get him.
That was for his 2nd ER visit. News regarding the first ER visit indicates Zero did, indeed, tell hospital personnel his travel history, which should have been more than enough to get him proper treatment on the 1st visit.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2014-10-03 13:49|| 2014-10-03 13:49|| Front Page Top

#20 Video of the pressure washing crew show no protective gear, sneakers an ordinary push broom, and uncontrolled run off. Plus the casual by-stander watching.

Have to agree with #5, the ability to spread this could be huge, and there is no evidence of a Clorox bottle anywhere. my guess is that the P.W. was shooting pure water at the mess.

Posted by USN, Ret. 2014-10-03 14:26|| 2014-10-03 14:26|| Front Page Top

#21 "Anguper", you are mistaken - you don't have the facts. They DID talk to patient Zero on his first visit to the hospital. They DID assess his travel history, and his symptoms. All that info was IN THE COMPUTER. But the doctor had no way to see it. Apparently all she/he saw was "stomach ache and a fever", which, absent the travel info, put the patient on a protocol to go home with tylenol for the fever and drink lots of fluids, like anyone else with a stomach virus, and to call back if he got worse.

The problem is the system was set up to streamline the ER - and that info of the travel history was NOT presented to the ER Doc. So when the ER Doc spent his 60 seconds that the hospital and government regulations (Medicare) say he is allowed to spend with the patient he didn't have complete info although everything in the system indicate to the Doc that he DID have complete info.

So the Doc did not know other than this is a guy with a stomach ache and a fever, like any other number of norovirus people who come to the ER, and sent him home per protocol.

In this case the speed of the ER and a defect in the software prevented the doctor from having all the data the nurse had gathered.

CMS (Medicaid/Medicare) is VERY strict about what can and cannot be done with patients, and about time. Same goes for insurance companies. The hospital, although not-for-profit, still has to recover the costs of care somehow. They do this by reducing the money spent by the most expensive non-capital costs: the doctors and nurses time - by understaffing, which in turn limits the time spent with any given patient. Both the Nurse and the Doc did their job. The system kept them from being successful.

Don't like it? Good. Go fix medicaid. Go fix Obamacare that forced this system into use before it was ready because it was mandated by Pelosi Reid and Obama, not doctors, nurses and software engineers. And fix all the illegals clogging up the ER, forcing a reduction in time for caregiving, when they should be at a local doctors office (where time can be taken), or better yet, back on the other side of the border.

Do NOT dump this on the medical people.

Posted by OldSpook 2014-10-03 15:40|| 2014-10-03 15:40|| Front Page Top

#22 Now Drudge is reporting an inmate in Georgia is being tested.

Posted by USN, Ret. 2014-10-03 15:41|| http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2014/10/03/report-inmate-at-cobb-county-jail-being-tested-for-ebola/ 2014-10-03 15:41|| Front Page Top

#23 tl;dr = you could put "Doctor House" (or any other fictional super doctor) into this system and he would fail to identify the Ebola patient. The government mandated system was screwed up and that is what is screwing people. Ask any MD.

Posted by OldSpook 2014-10-03 15:43|| 2014-10-03 15:43|| Front Page Top

#24

Doubtful any native reservoirs exist for this in the urban Dallas area in any significant numbers.

Good to hear Dallas has no rats.

Posted by Rob Crawford 2014-10-03 16:32|| 2014-10-03 16:32|| Front Page Top

#25

If the cleaning crew was using a contact solution (5% bleach as is typical for this sort of bio cleaning) in their washers, then the aerosol stuff is not a concern.

Sorry, but, I don't buy that. They recommend a 10-minute soak. That power washer didn't give any such thing.

Posted by Rob Crawford 2014-10-03 16:34|| 2014-10-03 16:34|| Front Page Top

#26

Do NOT dump this on the medical people.

Are we not counting the CDC staff as medical? Because they're screwing up every step of the way.

Posted by Rob Crawford 2014-10-03 16:36|| 2014-10-03 16:36|| Front Page Top

#27 I'm watching administration officials on TV say they have everything under control here and in Africa re ebola. Lots of catch phrases and buzz words--so far no Powerpoint presentations. Why do I feel like I'm getting smoke blown up my arse? Reminds me of this old Apple computer commercial: Chinese Professor lecturing Chinese students.

Posted by JohnQC 2014-10-03 16:55|| 2014-10-03 16:55|| Front Page Top

#28 Where's the friggin hook that pulls CDC and this administration off the stage? And yet another year and a half of this clown act?

Posted by JohnQC 2014-10-03 17:01|| 2014-10-03 17:01|| Front Page Top

#29 It seems to me that the regime has put clinical care-givers in an impossible situation. OS has made a good case that, between regulatory requirements for electronic records, and overwhelming numbers of patients due to open borders and the ACA, an already overtaxed system just cannot handle yet another burden. Especially not a black swan crisis like a level 4 hot agent surfacing in a major city.

Ebola requires more labor and more vigilance than just about any other pathogen out there, particularly given that there is no vaccine. It's not like smallpox, where there was a vaccine and known protocols to reasonably assure containment.

But OS is making my point for me. The combination of all these structural weaknesses is exactly what has me so worried. I have the utmost confidence in the expertise and professionalism of our medical people. What scares me is the needless constraints and pressures under which they're expected to perform perfectly. Mistakes are going to happen, and with something as lethal as Ebola, it's likely to mean more chains of transmission, or more people dead.

It also seems pretty clear to me that the ruling class has completely abdicated its paramount responsibility to protect the country, and laid it at the feet of clinicians and first responders. Sounds like medical people are already taking fire from every direction - which is exactly why I want people to worry, pay attention, and "don't do stupid sh!t" (ha!), so at least the rest of us know how not to make the problem any worse.

And here's the CDC chief explaining that we can't shut the border because that would make it worse. ???

Blah blah, we know. Ignorance is strength, war is peace, and slavery is freedom.

Posted by RandomJD 2014-10-03 17:26|| 2014-10-03 17:26|| Front Page Top

#30 My $0.02. This guy appears to have known he might have been exposed. He came to the US. Now he has the entire floor of a hospital at his disposal and the finest medical attention in America.

What this message does this send to every African who thinks they are exposed but not yet symptomatic? Yeah, sell everything and get to the US before symptoms show up. That's what I'd do.

What should we do?

Closing the borders is a chimera.

There's a warrant out for him in Liberia for lying on his exit papers. Put him in a hazmat suit and extradite his ass to Monrovia with full press coverage. AMF. Otherwise getting medical care is going to be real tough if you're an uninfected American.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2014-10-03 17:33|| 2014-10-03 17:33|| Front Page Top

#31 Re: discussion from the other day. This in a WAPO article caught my attention.

In one laboratory experiment, scientists couldn’t recover Ebola virus that had contaminated a surface kept at room temperature. In another study, Ebola virus kept at cold temperature was recovered from plastic and glass surfaces after more than three weeks.

If this turns out to be more transmissible in colder climates then it's a different ball game.

Posted by phil_b 2014-10-03 17:39|| 2014-10-03 17:39|| Front Page Top

#32 Now it seems there are restrictions o the press reporting on Ebola in Liberia. How soon before there is a similar 'clamp-down' here (whether to slow down information/panic or reduce exposure of Bambi's administration's incompetence, doesn't matter)

Posted by USN, Ret. 2014-10-03 18:00|| 2014-10-03 18:00|| Front Page Top

#33 CDC are *not* medical people in this case - they are management people. Scientists, not clinicians. They don't work with patients as such, but with diseases and populations.

And no, thank God, rats are not a known biological reservoir for Ebola.

Bats (especially fruit bats apparently) have something that lets them keep the virus present and numerous in their systems (viral load is the term) without developing symptoms and without developing an immune response which would destroy it. It tends to be species specific.

An example would be prairie dogs versus field mice in Bubonic plague - the former are a natural reservoir, the latter are not.

In the case of smallpox, the only natural reservoir are humans, which is what makes eradication possible - it does not exist in nature except in humans: immunize all humans = no more smallpox (if we were not keeping some around for whatever reason).

Posted by OldSpook 2014-10-03 18:24|| 2014-10-03 18:24|| Front Page Top

#34 Contrary to the CDC: Controlling the border would help - it would reduce the number of illegals which would reduce the load on ERs. But its not politically correct, the Dems need more low information racialist bloc voters, and both parties big corporation contributors need undocumented janitors, chicken pluckers and others they can treat as disposable labor.

Posted by OldSpook 2014-10-03 18:28|| 2014-10-03 18:28|| Front Page Top

#35 Call them what they are os, slaves. The DNC is importing a new slave class to replace the old one.

Posted by Silentbrick 2014-10-03 18:31|| 2014-10-03 18:31|| Front Page Top

#36 OS, although the results reported in the journal article are miles better than no information at all, as they point out in the paper the results are somewhat compromised by the storage conditions. Saliva samples stored at room temperature for a few hours may, just as they suggest, have destroyed the virus completely--but we don't know what it looks like after 2 minutes.
Nor could they measure the bleach residues on the hospital surfaces, for example.

I regard the paper as a "limit" paper: contamination will be at least this bad.
FWIW, there appears to be a typo: the kidneys do filter out a lot (maybe all) of the virus. Which is good to know.

I hope some of the quarantined people are getting daily visits and swabs taken. If they do come down with the disease (praying they don't!) we'll know many more details about the progress.

Posted by James 2014-10-03 20:51|| http://idontknowbut.blogspot.com 2014-10-03 20:51|| Front Page Top

21:15 ed in texas
21:00 James
20:52 USN, Ret.
20:51 James
20:46 JosephMendiola
19:49 linker
19:44 Barbara
19:29 ed in texas
19:26 ed in texas
19:23 Alaska Paul
18:43 Bright Pebbles
18:40 Bright Pebbles
18:33 SteveS
18:31 Silentbrick
18:28 OldSpook
18:26 BrerRabbit
18:24 OldSpook
18:04 USN, Ret.
18:04 bigjim-CA
18:01 bigjim-CA
18:00 USN, Ret.
17:58 SteveS
17:58 bigjim-CA
17:55 bigjim-CA