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2004-09-24 Terror Networks

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Posted by CrazyFool 2004-09-24 13:29|| || Front Page|| [2 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Yup. mo's the perfect man. Lessee, the muslim apologists response to this would be something on the order of "Well, being forced to be someones concubine is much better than being killed and also mo took good care of his female sex slaves and it was better for them to be taken care of than to be widows and if a man takes care of a woman and uses his money for her support then she is obligated to sleep with him. Its only right. It would be ungrateful for a well treated muslim sex slave to even think about controlling her own body when its bought and paid for with the muslim mans money and when her life has been so compassionately spared by him. Its a pity that all those women were widowed and all those children orphaned but it was unavoidable so mo did the right thing to ensure that they were taken acre of. "

I'll go ahead and compare this with my faith in spite of the fact that it will most likely kick up a shit storm, but it has to be said for those muslims who lurk around here.

The Bible and Jewish tradition both give the wife the right to refuse their husbands. islam teaches that she is obligated whether she wants to or not because her husband supports her. Christian women and Jewish women have the right to their own bodies and what happens to them. Christianity never allowed the taking of slaves or concubines although I'm sure Christian men have done so back in the bad old days, there is absolutely and unquivocably no santion of it by the religion, not ever. No excuses. No loopholes. No legal sanction of a woman being taken against her will as long as the man takes care of her later.

What is wrong is always wrong. It can't be justified by a good cause and it can't be made better by good treatment afterwards. You can't make a rape not a rape. You can't choose a sex slave for yourself out a group a recently widowed woman whose husbands were just executed by you, ie women still devoted to their husbands in their hearts, and have sex with them against their wills and then say its all good afterwards because you support them with your money.

I ask any of the lurkers here to ask themselves how they would like it if the tables were turned and this happened to their families? You would scream foul, I'm sure. You would rage for justice. And yet when your precious mo does it, all of a sudden the same situation becomes proof of his perfection and goodness! How is it that anyone can fail to see the disconnect here??? The double standard is outrageous. How can anyone be forced to take a woman against her will as his wife and expect her to have sex with him? Who was forcing him? Who forced mo to do these wrong things?

Has any muslim ever thought to put themselves back at the massacre of this Jewish tribe? How much blood would be pouring out into the ground and sraying in the air from the beheadings of at least 500 men? What would it be like to hear the shreiking and wailing of the women and children? Now if you have any sympathy or human compassion, imagine your self a woman whose husband has just been beheaded. Her whole life has been destroyed. Her children have been parcelled out to who knows who among her new masters and now comes a strange man who demands sex from her because like it or not he's done the compassionate thing and made her his new concubine whether she likes it or not. Ever imagine what that might be like? Now imagine happening many thousands of times over AND ALL WITH THE APPROVAL OF MOHAMMED.

Now ask yourself, where in the life of Jesus did this happen? Where in the New Testament was he ever forced to commit violent acts to save his message? He was on earth for only 33 years and preached only three. He never hurt anyone and yet in spite of persecution his message survived and his followers remained peaceful and nonviolent for hundreds of years after he was gone and yet the message spread far and wide in spite of all opposition.

Why is mo the only religious figure supposedly "forced" against his will to commit acts that would be crimes in any other situation in any other context? Why is the rape of his and his followers concubines and their forced captivity not wrong in their case but wrong in every other case?

How can something wrong stop being wrong for even a moment? How can harm stop being harm based on the context? Are the people who were raped and excecuted and forced to serve as slaves by the first muslims not human? Did they not have feelings of terror and horror and pain and suffering and misery and sadness and grief just as you would if you suffered their fate? And yet muslims continue to say that in mo's case it wasn't really wrong to make other people suffer and to take their lives and their property and their wives and children?

There can be no excuse. None. Not ever for putting another human being through such an experience. Not ever.

Posted by peggy 2004-09-24 2:37:11 PM|| 2004-09-24 2:37:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 Michelle is exactly the kind of mouthy woman I like.

There are some important problems to work out of Islam as regards rape, given what the Quran recounts as normal behavior between men and women and how closely many Muslim societies adhere to conquest ideas from primitive times. But I don't think this discussion necessarily has to fall within religious context.

From what I have read and what I have heard from women who have been raped, the closest way you can come to understanding what rape is like is to try to imagine what forced anal sex would feel like. There is little difference physically between how those 2 acts feel. When your muscles resist penetration, usually tissue damage occurs. That doesn't even count the psychological damage that occurs when someone forces their will on you at the same time they are tearing your tissue, or the ruination of your life that happens when you are impregnated by your rapist. It is the loss of autonomy, from what I understand, that is the worst.

Just add rape to the endless list of things Muslim women have no say about concerning their lives.

Posted by jules 187 2004-09-24 3:04:19 PM|| 2004-09-24 3:04:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 Winnie said it best:

The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property - either as a child, a wife, or a concubine - must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

- WINSTON CHURCHILL -

Islam promotes slavery. Witness the fact that Saudi Arabia was the very last country on earth to outlaw this criminal and degrading practice. THIS ONLY HAPPENED IN 1962. Islam faces such massive and monumental reforms that I have serious doubts as to whether it will ever become a truly valid or assimilable religion. All evidence to date indicates it will not. Should this prove the case, how to go about eliminating it from the face of this earth is the sole remaining task with regard to what is a violent, misogynistic, overbearing and primative death cult.

Posted by Zenster 2004-09-24 4:02:59 PM|| 2004-09-24 4:02:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Just add rape to the endless list of things Muslim women have no say about concerning their lives. Unless the all-powerful man (father/brother/husband/son) who holds her life in his hand chooses to allow her to have some say. I mean, Gentle's father sent her to university and all. Unfortunately for the health of the society, rape is one of the things Muslim boys have no say about either. This does seem to confirm the feminists' assertion that rape is an expression of power rather than sexual attraction.

Posted by trailing wife 2004-09-24 4:08:32 PM|| 2004-09-24 4:08:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 How is it that anyone can fail to see the disconnect here???

peggy, within the typical Arab mind it seems there is a congenital inability to assume any responsibility for rational and coherent conduct. Witness the usual "Osama gave the Great Satan what it richly deserved, he's our hero. And by the way 9-11 was a Jewish plot." sort of balderdash. Witness Saudi Prince Abdullah denouncing al Qaeda as a Zionist plot. Witness the countless Iraqis who rejoice at Saddam being deposed but refuse to accept the presence of those troops who liberated them.

The contradictions are as endless as the ~~day~~ ~~month~~ ~~year~~ ~~decade~~ ~~century~~ ~~millennia~~ eon is long. Until the entire Islamic culture shows itself capable of overcoming this fundamental ideological and intellectual dichotomy, it will never attain the least bit of validity as a worthwhile religion. As yet, it is merely the source of monstrous human suffering and an endless stream of psychopathic mass murderers.

Posted by Zenster 2004-09-24 4:14:45 PM|| 2004-09-24 4:14:45 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 Good points, tw.

Posted by jules 187 2004-09-24 4:29:18 PM|| 2004-09-24 4:29:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 This does seem to confirm the feminists' assertion that rape is an expression of power rather than sexual attraction.

trailing wife, rape has about as much to do with sex as basketball does with nuclear science. Whenever I am confronted with those weak-minded individuals who try to insist that there is no right or wrong, only shades of gray, I trot out rape and ask when it is ever valid or permissable.

Even if there was only one woman left on earth to continue the human species, raping her would not encourage any sort of healthy regard for the resulting offspring. Some things are black and white. Rape is absolute proof of that.

The predominance of rape within Islamic culture is damning evidence of a diseased attitude towards the sanctity and dignity of human life. It's persistent appearance as a feature of chauvinistic Muslim male privilege is an enormous stumbling block, if not an outright barrier, with regard to Islam's attainment of true respectability as a world faith. Until this elemental and profoundly vile component of Islamic culture is vanquished, all right thinking people are obliged to seek Islam's extinction instead.

For Islam to persist without correcting this core deviation from merciful and just treatment of our fellow human beings is simply criminal and nothing less. That such malice aforethought is so constantly perpetrated against those who are the very vessle of life itself serves as a prime indicator of just how wicked so much of Islamic doctrine is.

Posted by Zenster 2004-09-24 4:34:09 PM|| 2004-09-24 4:34:09 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 Excellent points TW and Zenster.

I also consider the MSM willing participants of the Rape Jihad by their deliberate and willful silence concerning Dufar, the Russian school, and the basic nature of Islam.

Rape is fundemental to Islam. What did the Prophet Mo do with the last Jews in Medina? He mass-slaughtered the men and boys right in front of their familes and then, in that very same day, gang raped the women and children. And he expected them to feel grateful for it.

I tend to judge each tree by its fruit. Rape, Murder, Slavery, and Death is the fruit of Islam....

Posted by CrazyFool 2004-09-24 6:23:53 PM|| 2004-09-24 6:23:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 I personally don't believe that islam can reform for the simple reason of its beginnings and founder. What is there for them to return too? The answer is the examples of mohammed and the first muslims. Al queda and the wahabbis, these are the true reformers in islam. They are the ones returning to the source. Its the moderates that have drifted from the original example and incorporated elements of better religions through mimicry and eclectism. Its the moderates that distance themselves from mo's example and ignore everything except the stuff that sounds real nice on paper.

There can be no reform of islam that leaves islam as it has been from the beginning that is a religion that believes that mo was a divine and perfect messenger and example. the only possible way to truly reform is for all muslims to reject that mo was any kind of example and law giver. That necessarily means the end of islam even if some people continue to stubbornly cling to something called islam.

Every other religion has something and someone morally exemplary to return to. islam does not.

Posted by peggy 2004-09-24 6:27:15 PM|| 2004-09-24 6:27:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 Actually on further thought I shouldnt be so quick to speak for all other religions. But I can speak from knowledge of Christianity and Judaism. Christianity has Jesus to return to, the source about whom almost no one ever has a bad thing to say. Judaism has its priceless and peerless Prophets as its conscience and lodestars always reminding them of the spirit in which the Law of Moses must be applied.

Posted by peggy 2004-09-24 6:40:36 PM|| 2004-09-24 6:40:36 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 I personally don't believe that islam can reform for the simple reason of its beginnings and founder. What is there for them to return too? The answer is the examples of mohammed and the first muslims. Al queda and the wahabbis, these are the true reformers in islam. They are the ones returning to the source.

Again, yet another important and truly damning point about Islam, peggy. Amid the hue and cry for Islam to reform itself, the only vigorous "reform" happening is towards an even more polar and vicious sort of fanaticism. What seems to elude so many people is that if Islam did not directly set about correcting its drift into militancy immediately after 9-11, how can anyone expect them to take up such a nettlesome task SOME THREE YEARS LATER?

Islam's inability or unwillingness to reform are rapidly becoming indistinguishable. The remaining world cannot continue its blindness over the simple fact that Islamic ideology is an outright threat to all other people and cultures. Those who refuse to comprehend this do not deserve any protection from the nations that have dedicated themselves to wiping out terrorism. Uncomprehending nations that permit themselves to be overrun by Islamic culture will necessarily be added to a list of civilization's enemies. France, for one, really needs to consider these implications and rectify their lax mentality that countenances harboring Khomenei and continued support of the Palestinians.

Posted by Zenster 2004-09-24 7:46:03 PM|| 2004-09-24 7:46:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 I think the very understanding of, or at least the definition associated with, rape in Islam is very different from in Western cultures. I'd suggest that it has everything to do with sex---just not sex as we know it.
In Islam, sex is something to be posessed like everything else. "Rape" is sex that doesn't belong to the parties involved in it, and seems to be treated as a theft of honor. The rapist takes something (sex, ird, whatever) that under Islam rightfully belongs to the woman's father, brother, husband, or possibly her male children. Strangely, blame attaches more to the female involved than the male perpetrator in Islam.
Rape, or other violations, can be defined as the opposite of freely given favors. When "freely given favors" is an oxymoron because such is already "free" by definition to any male muslim, we get into the weird ownership of womens minds, bodies, and honor.
What a disgusting cult.

Posted by Asedwich 2004-09-24 10:58:57 PM|| 2004-09-24 10:58:57 PM|| Front Page Top

12:42 Liberalhawk
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