Article

2004-09-22 Southeast Asia

Indon warship threatens tourists in Timorese waters

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Anon1 2004-09-22 1:11:05 AM|| || Front Page|| [3 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 It would be interesting to know if the dive boat was displaying a flag.

Posted by Super Hose 2004-09-22 1:18:08 AM|| 2004-09-22 1:18:08 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Don't mothball those F-111s just yet.

Posted by Gromky 2004-09-22 1:24:31 AM|| 2004-09-22 1:24:31 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 ..Frankly, I'll see their Kri Hasan Basri:

From www.hazegray.org:
Concept/Program: Large group of ex-East German corvettes, a few of which had briefly served with the West German navy. Although intended mainly for ASW, they are probably used mostly for patrol work, and some of the weapons/sensors may be inoperable.

And raise them one of these...
http://hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/images/usa/cvn65-3.jpg

Mike

Posted by Mike Kozlowski 2004-09-22 1:28:09 AM|| 2004-09-22 1:28:09 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 If shit happens expect Portugal to start his "stone in shoe" diplomaticx efforts

Posted by Anonymous6361 2004-09-22 2:05:01 AM|| 2004-09-22 2:05:01 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 A map may help:

While " the island of Atauro, [may only be] 15km off the coast of East Timor (in East Timorese waters)," it also is pretty close to Indonesian territory (within Indonesian waters). East Timor and Indonesia continue to negotiate over borders and border demarcations, and are still (in some places) only at the survey stage.

That said, the past slaughter of Timorese by Indonesians cannot be excused or forgotten. Nonetheless, the brutal suppression of the Timorese probably represents a backlash against anything even resembling socialism/communism in the area, attempts of Suharto and his cronies to deflect attention from themselves by creating and maintaining national crises, unthinking attempts to impose conformity, unbridled bloodletting kept in check by Suhartoâs authoritarian regime up until he left power in 1998, or some combination of all of the above. Indonesiaâs politicians have long been keenly aware that any move toward autonomy on the part of any subculture/people group could precipitate a cascade of seditionist autonomy seeking that would result in the very dissolution of Indonesia as a nation. Cohesion is king in Indonesia -- and has naturally led to some paranoia and (at times) flat out abusive tactics.

I donât think this incident represents either a return to past oppression, or the military getting cocky over SBY winning the election. I think it is just a border dispute. I think SBY will improve discipline in the military, and also will improve international relations in the region.

Posted by cingold 2004-09-22 2:12:26 AM|| 2004-09-22 2:12:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Indonesia is an empire composed of the former Dutch colonies in Southeast Asia. It incorporates a real melange of ethnicities, languages and religions. Empires either expand or contract. They cannot remain static. 'Nuff said.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2004-09-22 11:09:18 AM|| [http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2004-09-22 11:09:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 I regularly refer to Indon as the Javanese empire, although unlike other empires it wasn't achieved by the dominant group (i.e. the Javanese).

Posted by phil_b 2004-09-22 11:27:19 AM|| 2004-09-22 11:27:19 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 thankyou, cingold, that was good information.

thankyou zhang and phil b, I too think of Indonesia as the Javanese empire. The javanese are aggressive.

I think cingold is probably right, that it's just a border dispute, it did say in the original article that there is still debate over some sea boundaries and that they are squabling over them so it could just be that.

that said, they were only 200 meters offshore, they had to have known they were in Timorese waters, and was this ordered from higher up the chain?

Posted by Anon1 2004-09-22 9:00:08 PM|| 2004-09-22 9:00:08 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 I donât think this incident represents either a return to past oppression, or the military getting cocky over SBY winning the election. I think it is just a border dispute.

I've operated with the Indonesians in the past; they tended to be rather touchy about borders, territory, and foreign involvement (our joint exercise took place in a remote area, and the initial and post-op meetings were on a normally-uninhabited island). It's likely also the same reason they balked at the initial U.S. proposal for coordinated Straits security.

Posted by Pappy 2004-09-22 11:19:04 PM|| 2004-09-22 11:19:04 PM|| Front Page Top

09:36 OldSpook
04:07 OldSpook
04:02 OldSpook
02:34 OldSpook
02:24 OldSpook
02:19 OldSpook
00:47 OldSpook
00:42 OldSpook
00:40 OldSpook
00:35 OldSpook
00:34 OldSpook
23:34 Anonymous
16:52 Alaska Raul
01:52 Anonymous
08:36 Mike Sylwester
02:23 Pappy
02:11 Zenster
01:30 Long Hair Republican
01:01 trailing wife
00:58 trailing wife
00:47 Super Hose
00:23 lex
00:16 lex
00:10 Memesis