Article

2007-09-30 Iraq

Europeans want US to stay in Iraq - for Europe's sake?

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by lotp 2007-09-30 07:38|| || Front Page|| [11140 views ] Top
File under: Iraqi Insurgency

#1 You got to understand. They're the 'stay behinds'. They're not the bloodline that took the chance with what little they could carry and make something out of themselves. For good reason. There were a lot that didn't make it. Of course as the 20th Century in Europe demonstrated, there were a lot of 'stay behinds' that didn't make it either. At least the ones who headed here did so because they wanted to get at least some control over their lives as opposed to sitting around and mucking through responding to environmental stimuli. Which is why one of the major differing traits in cultural ethos is that 'We', as in "We the people of ...", believe government exists for the people rather than the people exists for the government. Government is a tool, not an end. It is to solve a problem, not be one. That's why we 'do' and they 'accommodate'.

Posted by Procopius2k 2007-09-30 09:05|| 2007-09-30 09:05|| Front Page Top

#2 Roger that, P2k.

Posted by lotp 2007-09-30 09:32|| 2007-09-30 09:32|| Front Page Top

#3 P2k- I've heard that arguement before; it fails to explain Massachusetts, or Chuckie Schumer, or San Francisco, or Dennis Kucinich.
In any population there are and always have been those who thrive on challange and those who need security. It's obvious why the former exist, but there must be some reason for the latter as well, or we would not have them anymore.

Posted by Glenmore">Glenmore 2007-09-30 10:40|| 2007-09-30 10:40|| Front Page Top

#4 Most of the core coastal elites are, in this country, where the remaining Europeans are: the descendents of doers who have had sufficient privilege and power long enough to be jaded, complacent and lazy in thought. Much of the east coast bears the mark of the Unitarians, in spirit if not in name.

Posted by lotp 2007-09-30 11:10|| 2007-09-30 11:10|| Front Page Top

#5 Glenmore: The dividing line in the US is and has been, for a long time, geographical and philosophical. The New England States have long been dominated by Calvinist doctrines emphasizing both idealism and pessimism. But the Tidewater States and points West have been dominated by optimism and realism.

Only in the last few decades has the West Coast drifted left into idealism and pessimism, but again, inspired to a great extent by those from the northern East Coast. And this is the red State/blue State division we see today.

Ironically, "old Europe" can at times get along with either the idealist and pessimist parts of the US or the realist and optimistic parts; but the fit is never entirely comfortable. This is because old Europe is realistic, like middle America, but it is also pessimistic, like the coasts.

Old Europe has difficulty with either idealism, which 1500 years of war burned out of it, or optimism, for the same reason. Their philosophy is one of resignation and slow decline into misery. This is why Americans cannot abide miserable French dramas, where at the end, everybody remains miserable.

To compound the ironies, Russians are both idealistic and optimistic, which completes the circle, I guess. It is hard to see beneath their sometimes morbid exterior, and the communists did much to dampen down both moods.

Posted by Anonymoose 2007-09-30 11:15|| 2007-09-30 11:15|| Front Page Top

#6 #5: Glenmore: The dividing line in the US is and has been, for a long time, Mason & Dixon ~~geographical and philosophical~~

Posted by Besoeker 2007-09-30 12:31|| 2007-09-30 12:31|| Front Page Top

#7 Russians are both idealistic and optimistic

Maybe the ex-pats.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-09-30 12:51|| 2007-09-30 12:51|| Front Page Top

#8 I'll believe in Russian idealism and optimism when there's more of them.

Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2007-09-30 15:27|| 2007-09-30 15:27|| Front Page Top

#9 P2k, your "stay behinds" theory makes increasing sense. It also explains why, instead of quitting making asses of themselves, the Euros want to "stay behinds".

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-09-30 20:17|| 2007-09-30 20:17|| Front Page Top

#10 See also TURKISH DAILY NEWS > USA VS EU: TIME FOR NEW OPTIONS, as per TURKEY + TURKEY's future + relations wid both, e.g. Turkey as "part of Europe/West", NATO, etc.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2007-09-30 23:06|| 2007-09-30 23:06|| Front Page Top

23:52 Eric Jablow
23:38 twobyfour
23:34 OldSpook
23:33 gromgoru
23:32 OldSpook
23:31 OldSpook
23:30 OldSpook
23:27 twobyfour
23:21 JosephMendiola
23:14 Zenster
23:13 JosephMendiola
23:06 JosephMendiola
23:05 Jan
23:02 JosephMendiola
22:59 Zenster
22:59 JosephMendiola
22:53 JosephMendiola
22:52 Old Patriot
22:50 JosephMendiola
22:46 Red Dawg
22:29 Seafarious
22:19 McZoid
22:15 Zenster
22:07 Zenster