Article

2004-09-27 Europe

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Trub 2004-09-27 11:43|| || Front Page|| [11129 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 All along, the promise to "rebuild our alliances" has been contingent upon the will of others to rebuild those alliances. Much of Europe is disinclined to lift its own weight in a military sense and feels free of any obligation to help the US. Kerry's promise should have been recognized by everyone long ago as a boast.

Posted by jules 187 2004-09-27 12:54:58 PM|| 2004-09-27 12:54:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#2 Wrong century, Kerry. Face facts: France is not an ally in the middle east. NATO is next to useless to us beyond Afghanistan, and even there its utility's limited.

I'm extremely uncomfortable with the thought that one of our two major party's foreign policy heavies are so completely clueless on the fact that the world is no longer spinning on a European axis.

Holbrooke's a smart guy. Surely he must realize that Musharraf and Putin and the Indians and Chinese at least as important to us re Iran and the next phase of this war than Jack Straw and his fellow dwarves?

Maybe he doesn't. shudder

Posted by lex 2004-09-27 1:01:01 PM|| 2004-09-27 1:01:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#3 This is not about Bush or Kerry.
This is about Chirac and SchrÃ¶der.

Restart the engines in 2006.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-09-27 1:03:43 PM|| 2004-09-27 1:03:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#4 Who's the likely replacement for SchrÃ¶der, TGA? Implications for the alliance, Iran etc?

Posted by lex 2004-09-27 1:09:17 PM|| 2004-09-27 1:09:17 PM|| Front Page Top

#5 Thanks France and Germany (sincerely) for destroying one of Kerry's main arguments.

Posted by V is for Victory 2004-09-27 1:12:55 PM|| 2004-09-27 1:12:55 PM|| Front Page Top

#6 And even more importantly, lex, have the French and Germans changed their minds WRT the anti-war stance of their governments? If not, it doesn't matter if Chirac, Schroeder, or whoever gets in, it's simply voting for the same position (no action) with a different leader.

Posted by jules 187 2004-09-27 1:14:43 PM|| 2004-09-27 1:14:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#7 lex, tough call... Stoiber is back in the race (and I'm backing him).

But lets face it, any German candidate would commit instant suicide telling his electorate that he's willing to send trops to Iraq. But there are lots of other ways to help. And of course the German obstructionist politics would end immediately. Stoiber is definitely pro U.S. and lukewarm to France.

And his record in Bavaria is impressive. Highest economic growth, lowest unemployment rates, heavy investing in future technology.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-09-27 1:15:15 PM|| 2004-09-27 1:15:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#8 TGA, This is no longer just about Chiraq and Schroeder. They are doing a good job of representing the wishes of their constituents as they have been formed by the establishment media over there. The Americans are too hardheaded (and correct) to change their position of the issues that divide us. The Europeans are going to have to do a whole lot of self reflection and changing before things are repaired, and I don't think there's enough of 'em like you over there to make it happen.

The Bush election is only going to solidify positions. Too bad for the good guys there, but there just aren't enough of you and the rest seem too busy worrying about their personal job or retirement dole from the state to change.

Posted by Anonymous6682 2004-09-27 1:27:43 PM|| 2004-09-27 1:27:43 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 A6682... Let's not forget that (unfortunately) a lot will change in the WOT as well... things WILL happen in Europe and attitudes will change after they happen.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-09-27 1:31:35 PM|| 2004-09-27 1:31:35 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 That's not the way I'd like them to come back in the fold. It's just a GD shame.

Posted by Mrs. Davis 2004-09-27 1:39:12 PM|| 2004-09-27 1:39:12 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 But when those things happen, TGQ, isn't it more likely that more EUros than not will opt for appeasement, tilting toward the jihadists/pan-arabs et al? Certainly the Spanish have. The French probably would; perhaps the Italians as well. Germany?

I'm not sure that terror's so terrible anymore. Even in this country we have a large and growing number of idiots who want to dismiss the significance of 9/11.

Posted by lex 2004-09-27 1:39:15 PM|| 2004-09-27 1:39:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 TGA, not TGQ.

A typo, honest--didn't mean anything ironic by the Q (not that there's anyt wrong with that)

Posted by lex 2004-09-27 1:40:54 PM|| 2004-09-27 1:40:54 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 lex, that's hope these things never happen.
But should they happen, it will be better to have real leader in place.
I don't want to imagine 9/11 with Al Gore or John Kerry as president.

Posted by True German Ally 2004-09-27 1:43:23 PM|| 2004-09-27 1:43:23 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 LOL

Posted by True German Ally 2004-09-27 1:43:57 PM|| 2004-09-27 1:43:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Container ships, proxies... sigh.

I seem to recall Warren Buffett, he of insurance company and probability analysis fame, saying recently that his insurance companies are factoring in a 75% probability of a nuclear attack on US soil during the next two decades.

Posted by lex 2004-09-27 1:45:58 PM|| 2004-09-27 1:45:58 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 I wonder how different the world would be if the plot to fly a plane into the Eiffel Towel had happened before the World Trade Center was attacked.

Posted by Super Hose 2004-09-27 9:59:12 PM|| 2004-09-27 9:59:12 PM|| Front Page Top

20:56 Anonymous6693
06:35 Anonymous6334
06:29 Anonymous6334
06:26 Anonymous6334
06:20 Anonymous6334
06:17 Anonymous6334
18:46 Anonymous6334
18:35 Anonymous6334
15:35 Anonymous6334
15:26 Anonymous6334
15:22 Anonymous6334
19:47 Anonymous6334
19:37 Anonymous6334
18:23 Anonymous6334
14:32 Anonymous6334
08:14 Anonymous6334
17:37 Anonymous6334
16:16 Anonymous6334
23:34 Zenster
23:13 smn
23:11 .com
23:06 Anonymous6694
23:05 badanov
23:03 Lone Ranger