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2024-09-26 Caucasus/Russia/Central Asia

'By the rules, it's time for the Russians to surrender.' How Western aggression broke down over Crimea 170 years ago

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Posted by badanov 2024-09-26 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11128 views ] Top

#1 Some people never learn.

Posted by Abu Uluque 2024-09-26 11:15|| 2024-09-26 11:15|| Front Page Top

#2 That Russia, the biggest and most aggressive empire on earth, calls others aggressive is a little ironic, Ukraine is unfortunate in having to deal with feckless allies, in Europe and the US alike, who give it the minimum necessary to lose slowly but steadily to Russia. Ultimately, the gain of Ukraine will give Russia the resources it needs to rebuild the old Russian empire - first the traditional tsarist lands, then the postwar Eastern European states. And the US will again be embroiled in a cataclysmic war in Europe to deny the Russian army its bid to wash its collective bid to wash its feel in the Mediterranean.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2024-09-26 19:09|| 2024-09-26 19:09|| Front Page Top

#3 #2 That Russia, the biggest and most aggressive empire on earth, calls others aggressive is a little ironic

Excellent argument, as long as you ignore the US's role in the coup which ovethrew an elected government in Ukraine in 2014.

Otherwise, it is your argument that is "ironic."

Posted by badanov 2024-09-26 19:21|| 2024-09-26 19:21|| Front Page Top

#4 Excellent argument, as long as you ignore the US's role in the coup which ovethrew an elected government in Ukraine in 2014.

Otherwise, it is your argument that is "ironic."

You've ignored the Russian role in the coup that attempted to make Russia's puppet, Yanukovich, a dictator. He ran on a platform of joining the EU, then not only moved away from that, but attempted to annex Ukraine to Russia. In most places, they call that high treason. Ukraine elected a president, not a king. After his men shot the Maidan protestors and it became clear, from the popular reaction, that his future as an elected official was not only dim, but chances are he stood to be impeached, then indicted for abuse of power and murder, he ran to his master in Moscow. He could have stayed, fought the charges, run for re-election. But he ran.

Russophiles like to call Yanukovich's departure for Moscow a coup. Real coups are followed by dictatorships. Whereas when it became clear Yanukovich's departure was permanent，Ukraine promptly held new elections. Poroshenko won one term, then lost to Zelensky.

Regardless of the whys and wherefores of domestic Ukrainian politics, it is not in the US interest for the Russian empire to be reconstituted, whether to the Tsarist or Soviet boundaries. As is, Russia is the size of the next 2 largest countries on earth combined, and 4x the size of European NATO combined. We don't need Russia getting any bigger.

Today, Germany, Italy and Japan are not just our military allies, but also our friends. Would we stand for them rebuilding their old empires? In a word, no. Russia is not a military ally and definitely not a friend. There's no reason to acquiesce in this latest land grabs. We wouldn't stand for it even from our closest allies, Britain and France. Russia doesn't get a free shot.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2024-09-26 20:10|| 2024-09-26 20:10|| Front Page Top

#5 Thank you for admitting the US's role in fomenting the civil war in Ukraine.

Posted by badanov 2024-09-26 20:44|| 2024-09-26 20:44|| Front Page Top

#6 Thank you for admitting the US's role in fomenting the civil war in Ukraine.

There was no civil war. Russia's puppet attempted to make himself king, hand the country over to Russia. When the Ukrainian security services stopped obeying his orders to kill as many of the opposition as necessary to keep him in power, he fled to his master in Moscow.

Then, in 2014, Russian troops invaded Ukraine with regular troops, claimed they were locals who wanted to secede. They stopped because they met more resistance than expected.

The 2022 invasion was just a continuation of Russia's 2014 land grab. In that interval, the Russian military attempted to remedy the defects that resulted in serious difficulties for Russian invasion forces. In fact, the only relative progress Russia made since 2014 was in suborning Ukrainian officials. While incomplete, it was responsible for almost all of Russia's early gains, which it has retained through extensive fortification.

While Ukrainian accounts tend to downplay Russia's efforts to buy Ukrainian officials, it was a smashing success. In one fell swoop, 20% of Ukraine crumbled before Russia. Incomplete, but excellent bang for the buck, however many billions were spent.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2024-09-26 21:00|| 2024-09-26 21:00|| Front Page Top

#7 Most portfolios in the Ukrainian government post coup were occupied by EU bureaucrats, which set, as policy, privately recruited groups against Russian speakers. They enforced enforced policies of eliminating Russian language as one of the languages used by the government.

I can't think of many things which could enrage a populace more than being cut from their formerly legitimately elected government, not even a post coup amalgam of EU politicians.

If I am the president of Russia and I see a coup fomented by the US and Eu governments, I want to protect my aircraft carrier, and I especially don't want Crimea to be used by a hostile actor against Russians on either side of the border.

You've offered arguments justifying on what the Russians might do, but the only thing that we have is what the Russians have done and will continue to do until there is a settlement, which includes Russian security requirements.

You seem to like the notion of preemptive action, but the only thing NATO et al have managed to do is to poke the bear, with no good strategic cause other than what the Russians might do.

Keep poking the bear. Win or lose, Russia will win in Ukraine. And the only legacy NATO et al will have to show is the mounds of dead Ukrainians and mercenaries who died for a cause based on a flawed strategic assumption.

Posted by badanov 2024-09-26 21:42|| 2024-09-26 21:42|| Front Page Top

#8 You seem to like the notion of preemptive action, but the only thing NATO et al have managed to do is to poke the bear, with no good strategic cause other than what the Russians might do.

Keep poking the bear. Win or lose, Russia will win in Ukraine. And the only legacy NATO et al will have to show is the mounds of dead Ukrainians and mercenaries who died for a cause based on a flawed strategic assumption.

There was no pre-emptive action. Russia, not the US, invaded Ukraine in 2014, and again in 2022. The US jockeyed for influence with Russia in Ukraine as all countries do.

So long as Europe and the US continue to throttle military equipment shipments, Ukraine will slowly lose ground. Only a Trump administration offers hope for Ukrainian victory, through unfettered shipments of somewhat current hardware in quantities large enough to make a difference. At minimum, Biden's endless obstruction of transfers of mothballed US-made equipment from other countries will end.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2024-09-26 21:58|| 2024-09-26 21:58|| Front Page Top

#9 Regardless of the whys and wherefores of domestic Ukrainian politics, it is not in the US interest for the Russian empire to be reconstituted, whether to the Tsarist or Soviet boundaries. As is, Russia is the size of the next 2 largest countries on earth combined, and 4x the size of European NATO combined. We don't need Russia getting any bigger.

What is this called if not preemptive action?

Posted by badanov 2024-09-26 22:16|| 2024-09-26 22:16|| Front Page Top

23:56 Frank G
23:45 Skidmark
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22:33 Jairong+Scourge+of+the+Gepids2435
22:16 badanov
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20:44 badanov
20:37 swksvolFF
20:27 Anomalous Sources
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