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2011-09-23 -Signs, Portents, and the Weather-

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Posted by Anonymoose 2011-09-23 17:57|| || Front Page|| [11129 views ] Top

#1 Even with humidity, I don't understand how high 70's should knock down 2/3 on final qualifying. Either gear is way too much or training is too little. These are not extreme conditions.

Posted by Glenmore 2011-09-23 18:40|| 2011-09-23 18:40|| Front Page Top

#2 And some officers and NCOs are in very deep trouble.

I'll take bets on that. Too many time this has happened but the training schedule seems to override safety every time. Till the very senior command of the Army is held accountable for imbuing a standard that sustains it, those lives will be forfeited because there is no 'give' in those schedules.

Posted by Procopius2k 2011-09-23 18:56|| 2011-09-23 18:56|| Front Page Top

#3 Not getting it. Did the same at Benning and Jackson in far, far worse weather. Eighties, nineties, horrid humidity.
At Benning, we'd fall out for PT about sunrise, change for reveille and in a couple of minutes, the sweat would run down our fatigues because they were already so soaked with sweat that more couldn't be absorbed.
Far, far worse.
My advice is look at breakfast.

Posted by Richard Aubrey 2011-09-23 20:39|| 2011-09-23 20:39|| Front Page Top

#4 Temperature is not the matter, Wet Bulb reading does.

Lack of water intake, lack of evaporation,and even semi-high temp could knock it down to training condition black which entails minimal exertion or exercise.

Posted by newc 2011-09-23 21:00|| 2011-09-23 21:00|| Front Page Top

#5 newc. Point is, I and my buddies served in far, far worse wet-bulb conditions. That means lousy evaporation--salute somebody with a spray from your hand--and high temps. How's wet bulb with, say, ninety-two and eighty percent humidity?
There were times I was so thirsty, I dreamed when catching a quick nap, that I was swimming in a pool of lime koolaid.
Nope. Something wrong here besides the conditions during the march. Used to run three miles "The MATA Mile" at Bragg one summer about 4pm after classes. No equipment, but pretty good time.
Never had, even in worse conditions in AIT training at Jackson in a record summer, anything like thirty-seven guys flaking out.
Doing some AYSO coaching years ago, one of the instructors warned us that women don't sweat like men do--they glow--and we're more likely to have heat casualties with women. Had to be careful. Deodorant ads have said the same thing, for some other purpose, which escapes me. So it must be true.
Like to know if women were proportionately involved in the casualties.
And, still, I'd look at breakfast.

Posted by Richard Aubrey 2011-09-23 22:09|| 2011-09-23 22:09|| Front Page Top

#6 Agree - its gotta be some other external
factor(s) thats not being described.

Posted by JosephMendiola 2011-09-23 22:18|| 2011-09-23 22:18|| Front Page Top

#7 Richard Aubrey, I agree. I KNOW it is more than wet bulb condition. To lose the equalivilant of a Platoon is worthy of further look in a simple ruck march. Probably 1/4th of our careers has been working or training under condition black.I have never see such a loss in my time either.
I was merely taking us to the first stage of the investigation.

Lack of water is the most likely reason - lightening loads. These were medics too.

Posted by newc 2011-09-23 22:39|| 2011-09-23 22:39|| Front Page Top

#8 P.S. there is always food problems too. That is a large number to lose that fast.

Posted by newc 2011-09-23 22:42|| 2011-09-23 22:42|| Front Page Top

#9 The number increased to 43.

Posted by Anonymoose 2011-09-23 23:22|| 2011-09-23 23:22|| Front Page Top

#10 Maybe the weather conditions weren't what they thought they were for some reason?

Any changes to the gear like tighter-fitting backpacks or armor that doesn't allow any circulation at all?

New helmets?

Maybe the water is too hard and it wasn't doing its job?

Posted by gorb 2011-09-23 23:53|| 2011-09-23 23:53|| Front Page Top

23:56 gorb
23:54 mojo
23:53 gorb
23:39 dacama
23:29 gorb
23:22 gorb
23:22 Anonymoose
23:17 gorb
22:42 newc
22:39 newc
22:20 JosephMendiola
22:18 JosephMendiola
22:13 JosephMendiola
22:10 JosephMendiola
22:09 Richard Aubrey
22:04 JosephMendiola
22:01 SR-71
21:39 Shieldwolf
21:38 Perfesser
21:36 Bright Pebbles
21:34 Bright Pebbles
21:34 Bobby
21:33 Bright Pebbles
21:28 Bright Pebbles