Article

2004-09-22 Israel-Palestine

Lessons from Israel's Success in War on Palestinian Terror

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Posted by lex 2004-09-22 2:42:11 AM|| || Front Page|| [11131 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 smoke the leadership with missiles and the cults fall apart....who'da thunk it?

Posted by Frank G 2004-09-22 8:29:44 AM|| 2004-09-22 8:29:44 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Biden, McCain, Hagel, George Will, WFBuckley

What direction to move to get all of them? Be less divisive at home to get Biden and McCain, and you distance further from Will and Buckley. Emphasize democratization, to get McCain and maybe Buckley and Biden, and you distance further from Will and Hagel. Get less ambitious about democratization, and shift towards a kind eye to would be autocrats like Putin, but away from euros, pick up Will,maybe Buckley, but not Biden or Hagel, and probably not McCain. Make nice to the Euros to pick up Biden and Hagel, lose Buckley, Will, maybe McCain.

Frankly, while i have alot to criticize Bush about, I must sympathize with him to some degree. Its NOT just the admin that doesnt seem to be taking this seriously - the whole polity is lax in that regard. This isnt Israel. Which may have something to do with the fact that we DONT have the level of terror, the casualties, the constant attacks - or the mass conscript army with the elaborate reserve system. We're simply not endangered the way they are.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-09-22 9:26:42 AM|| 2004-09-22 9:26:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Good points all, LH, and I'd certainly agree that our natural tendency is toward complacency and a soft isolationism. But leadership matters, hugely, and only Kerry's complete incoherence and the idiocies of MikeyBoy et al disguise the fact that the admin's communications strategy is floundering right now.

I also believe that less Rovian/fundamentalist politics would help significantly to build more support for the war. Stupid to push the Marriage Amendment now. Was it really necessary to piss off loyal supporters who happen not to be born-agains? I don't believe in god, and I'm as fiercely pro-war as anyone in this country. Do we really need to keep hearing the BS about how our (Bush's) religion o' peace is superior to their religion o' peace?

Posted by lex 2004-09-22 9:44:20 AM|| 2004-09-22 9:44:20 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 There are plenty of strong, courageous, ferociously hawkish left-libs who could help this admin greatly in its efforts to build enduring support for the long twilight struggle: Hitchens, Paul Berman, even the pro-war French socialist intellectuals and pols like Bernard Kouchner of Medecins Sana Frontieres and Bernard Henri-Levy.

Wouldn't it have been smarter to tone down the kulturkampf stuff and reach out to these influential and tireless advocates of an unstinting war against jihadist fascism?

Posted by lex 2004-09-22 9:52:41 AM|| 2004-09-22 9:52:41 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 youre preaching to the choir on that lex, ive read Berman, and push his book wherever i can.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-09-22 10:00:49 AM|| 2004-09-22 10:00:49 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Good man. Appreciate any lionks you have to other writers/articles/books

Posted by lex 2004-09-22 10:33:12 AM|| 2004-09-22 10:33:12 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 did you see the TNR piece on liberal hawks taking another look at the Iraq war? - they had Hitch, Berman, and a couple of others. A couple had retreated, Hitch was firm, and Berman was nuanced.

Posted by Liberalhawk 2004-09-22 10:36:03 AM|| 2004-09-22 10:36:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Yes, but I wasn't persuaded by the retreaters. One of the great defects of liberal thinking is the belief that one can make decisions based on complete, and completely accurate, information. Typical of an academic or journalist. Anyone with practical experience of governing or management knows that one never has enough info or sufficient time to thoroughly evaluate that info. In practical life, most decisions are judgment calls.

Posted by lex 2004-09-22 1:54:13 PM|| 2004-09-22 1:54:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#9 I also believe that less Rovian/fundamentalist politics would help significantly to build more support for the war. Stupid to push the Marriage Amendment now. Was it really necessary to piss off loyal supporters who happen not to be born-agains? I don't believe in god, and I'm as fiercely pro-war as anyone in this country. Do we really need to keep hearing the BS about how our (Bush's) religion o' peace is superior to their religion o' peace?

Bravo, superbly well said, lex. I continue to maintain that this administration's overemphasis upon religiosity has not only served (inadvertently or not) to confirm terrorist claims of an American "Crusade" against the Arabs, but has also placed the United States in greater danger by painting it as a Christian nation.

It is this constant overstressing of religion that cripples our ability to begin identifying Islam in general, and Salafist Wahhabism specifically, as a political ideology and not a religion. Without highlighting this critical militant agenda contained within Islamic doctrine, the war on terrorism will always be susceptible to being painted as a clash of religions instead of the proper extermination of violent mass murdering radicals that it really is.

Posted by Zenster 2004-09-22 9:02:59 PM|| 2004-09-22 9:02:59 PM|| Front Page Top

#10 A case of:
"Our shit is stuff and your stuff is shit."
???

I always think of the following tune when you hit this topic, so enjoy...

Praying For Time

These are the days of the open hand
They will not be the last
Look around now
These are the days of the beggars and the choosers

This is the year of the hungry man
Whose place is in the past
Hand in hand with ignorance
And legitimate excuses

The rich declare themselves poor
And most of us are not sure
If we have too much
But we'll take our chances
'Cause God's stopped keeping score
I guess somewhere along the way
He must have let us all out to play
Turned his back and all God's children
Crept out the back door

And it's hard to love, there's so much to hate
Hanging on to hope
When there is no hope to speak of
And the wounded skies above say it's much too much too late
Well maybe we should all be praying for time

These are the days of the empty hand
Oh you hold on to what you can
And charity is a coat you wear twice a year

This is the year of the guilty man
Your television takes a stand
And you find that what was over there is over here

So you scream from behind your door
Say what's mine is mine and not yours
I may have too much but I'll take my chances
'Cause God's stopped keeping score
And you cling to the things they sold you
Did you cover your eyes when they told you
That he can't come back
'Cause he has no children to come back for

It's hard to love there's so much to hate
Hanging on to hope when there is no hope to speak of
And the wounded skies above say it's much too late
So maybe we should all be praying for time

Posted by .com 2004-09-22 9:44:04 PM|| 2004-09-22 9:44:04 PM|| Front Page Top

09:36 OldSpook
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23:34 Anonymous
16:52 Alaska Raul
01:52 Anonymous
08:36 Mike Sylwester
02:23 Pappy
02:11 Zenster
01:30 Long Hair Republican
01:01 trailing wife
00:58 trailing wife
00:47 Super Hose
00:23 lex
00:16 lex
00:10 Memesis