Article

2005-08-30 Home Front: Economy

Mayor: Major Breach Flooding and Destroying New Orleans

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Steve 2005-08-30 08:46|| || Front Page|| [11134 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 If this is accurate about Pnchatrain water pouring in unabated from the canal, then New Orleans is history unless they can dam off the breach or the canal. This will put 20 feet of water in a lot of places, and that in itself is enough to erode and "float" the foundations of most of the buildings in NO. Once that happens, the buildings are gone - those left standing will have to be torn down after things are drained, for safety. This is going to punch a major hole in the economy, at least regionally if not nationally.

Posted by Oldspook 2005-08-30 09:29|| 2005-08-30 09:29|| Front Page Top

#2 On the bright side, most of the Formosan termites have been terminated.

Posted by ed 2005-08-30 09:33|| 2005-08-30 09:33|| Front Page Top

#3 If it really is that bad, and the city is really destroyed, we should take this as an opportunity.

Don't rebuild it back the way it was. Raise the city up 20-30 feet so that we'll be good for a couple of centuries.

Of course, if the damage is highly overstated (I don't trust reports either way coming out for the next day or two), that's not practical.

Posted by Jackal">Jackal 2005-08-30 09:43|| home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]">[home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html] 2005-08-30 09:43|| Front Page Top

#4 If the city is destroyed, cut the dikes upstream and let the Mississippi run the way it wants to - eighty or so miles to the west down the Atchafalaya. They let the Mississippi overbuild itself into a towering, unnatural channel due to the dikes necessary to preserve the city and the port. Don't do that again - don't try to constrain the Mississippi into a main channel again - we'll just have the same damned problem again in fifty years.

If you have to rebuild the port of New Orleans, do it on the cheap, as far upstream as possible. Or, even better, shut it down and redistribute to other, less vulnerable Gulf ports. Leave the suburbs to wither into a tourist-driven backwater.

If we're lucky, the existing bed of the Mississippi will provide some really cracking delta bottomland for agribusiness.

Posted by Mitch H.">Mitch H. 2005-08-30 10:03|| http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/]">[http://blogfonte.blogspot.com/] 2005-08-30 10:03|| Front Page Top

#5 I smell an opportunity. New Orleans needs dirt. We need a place to dump all that dirt from the construction of a sea level canal between Brownsville, TX, and San Diego, CA. It's a match!

Posted by Glavitle Slaque3075 2005-08-30 10:05|| 2005-08-30 10:05|| Front Page Top

#6 apparently they aren't even sure exactly where the breach or seepage is coming from, so they can't do immediate repairs. Martial law has been declared

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-08-30 10:40|| 2005-08-30 10:40|| Front Page Top

#7 Stephen Green at Vodkapundit has links to pictures. Heartbreaking. The damage along the Mississippi and Alabama coasts is really bad. I got in touch with my aunt in Mobile this morning. She said it's worse than Frederick. I was there during Frederick and that was really bad.

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2005-08-30 10:41|| 2005-08-30 10:41|| Front Page Top

#8 Raise the city up 20-30 feet so that we'll be good for a couple of centuries.

That's what they did in Galveston after the 1900 huricane. It'll take time and money, but you can lift any building. Or convert the second floor into a new ground floor.

Posted by Steve">Steve 2005-08-30 10:42|| 2005-08-30 10:42|| Front Page Top

#9 Martial law has been declared

Frank, where did you see that?

Posted by Laurence of the Rats">Laurence of the Rats 2005-08-30 10:49|| http://www.punictreachery.com/]">[http://www.punictreachery.com/] 2005-08-30 10:49|| Front Page Top

#10 Vodkapundit appears to be empty. Nothing there at blogspot. Does he have a different addr?

Posted by 3dc 2005-08-30 10:59|| 2005-08-30 10:59|| Front Page Top

#11
What Mitch H. said!

AR

Posted by Analog Roam 2005-08-30 11:08|| 2005-08-30 11:08|| Front Page Top

#12 Martial law has been declared

All over Fox news

Posted by Steve">Steve 2005-08-30 11:17|| 2005-08-30 11:17|| Front Page Top

#13 Vodka Pundit was down first thing this morning and came back up but appears to be down again. Instapundit is down as well. Storm related?

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2005-08-30 11:47|| 2005-08-30 11:47|| Front Page Top

#14 From the pictures and video this morning it looked like pretty widespread looting. 3dc says the Mayor has ordered the total evacuation of New Orleans but I don't have any link.

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2005-08-30 11:50|| 2005-08-30 11:50|| Front Page Top

#15 http://tinyurl.com/a6cuw

That link takes you to a page that lists streaming video/live feed. I'm watching/listening to WDSU-TV, which was in NoLa. These folks know a lot more about things than the national guys.

Posted by growler 2005-08-30 12:00|| 2005-08-30 12:00|| Front Page Top

#16 Deacon: FOX News report on TV.
No link.

Posted by 3dc 2005-08-30 12:14|| 2005-08-30 12:14|| Front Page Top

#17 Fox is now backing off Marshal Law stmt. Says maybe mayor was just using it as an adjective.

Posted by 3dc 2005-08-30 12:24|| 2005-08-30 12:24|| Front Page Top

#18 WUSD in New Orleans has a live video stream and they are reporting martial law has been declared.

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2005-08-30 12:27|| 2005-08-30 12:27|| Front Page Top

#19 sorry, WDSU

Posted by Deacon Blues">Deacon Blues 2005-08-30 12:28|| 2005-08-30 12:28|| Front Page Top

#20 There is no reason to declare Martial Law JUST to keep people from the coming back. The state police on the freeway can do that.

There is realdevastation information in NO, that someone don't want getting out to the media. But, Martial Law can't stop the text messaging. IMO, they declared Martial Law because the government don't the public to see that FEMA and other agencies, were really UNprepared for this destruction. The the truth is that there a major catastrophe that started last night with the levies breaking and there are a lot of people that are since dying and will be dead soon. Right now..

..there are people stuck in attics that cannot be saved, there are too many of them. Water is rising at an astonshing 1ft per hour. This water will be over the roofs soon. Some of the ones that are being saved have severed limbs and may need amputation at a higher level. The national media won't show it. Not that we need to see it but at least report it.

..the hospital's in downtown NO are flooding rapidly with over 1000 patients on life support that may be dead soon. The ambulances cannot get to them. The agencies are trying to airlift the patients but the airlift capacity is not there for all the patients.

..the poor people in the Superdome are stuck in a oven with no working toilets. People are not allowed to leave the Superdome and have no where to go.

..the mayor of NO is ordering evacuations but that's code word for quarantine.

..the French Quarter, where people were having hurricane parties and survived the strong winds, now have massive flooding and cars are floating.

The real truth is that Martial Law has been declared because the levies cannot be stopped and downtown is being Quarantined for diseases, toxic waste, dead bodies floating, etc. The national media is hiding the truth about the real reason for Martial Law. The media is just reporting what the city officials are telling them about NO. They are now allowed, due to Martial Law, to carry out independent investigation within the city. If the Army Corps Engineers cannot fix the multiple levies that are breaking, life cannot be sustained in the city. Clean water is running out.

The only way that I will take back anything that I have written above, is if I get text messaging that states otherwise. Again, the whole city is being quarantined because of the devestation that is happening right now. Over 1 million people are going to need food/shelter/medical attention/water .

Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-30 12:32|| 2005-08-30 12:32|| Front Page Top

#21 VodkaPundit's post

The other day the BBC's Have Your Say page on Katrina had a post from a Sam Morrison, or possibly PR:

The scene here looks like something from the apocalypse. People are running around the city, terrified about what to do. Those who are leaving have clogged the roadways so extensively that little hope remains for those who have not yet decided to leave. Gas stations are breeding grounds for fighting and riots, as people are resorting to a state of martial law in order to get the precious gasoline they need to move their vehicles. This truly is the worst part of the storm and it only looks to get worse. God be with everyone who is trying to escape the madness.

I don't think that fellow's quite clear on the meaning of "martial law".

Posted by Angie Schultz 2005-08-30 13:10|| http://darkblogules.blogspot.com]">[http://darkblogules.blogspot.com] 2005-08-30 13:10|| Front Page Top

#22 "I don't think that fellow's quite clear on the meaning of "martial law"

He doesn't but, I do.

Thanks for taking the time to copy and paste from another article. Your input is invaluable.

Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-30 13:33|| 2005-08-30 13:33|| Front Page Top

#23 as noted above Fox is backing off the Martial Law for NO only - teh MS parishes are in worse condition actually, except for the Canal St now flooded and French Quarter water rising. Also, 10 is cut off and they may not be able to evacuate anyone else in NO... Some looting and hot tempers at ice distribution center shown on Fox...

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-08-30 13:34|| 2005-08-30 13:34|| Front Page Top

#24 by the way, PR - cell service (including texting) is out - no need to restrict info when the towers are shorted out. It's nature, not some dark conspiracy to withhold the bad news. It's already out

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-08-30 13:37|| 2005-08-30 13:37|| Front Page Top

#25 Then why are they blinding the satellites? The Man has got his heel on the cajuns neck.

Posted by A L Chappeau 2005-08-30 13:51|| 2005-08-30 13:51|| Front Page Top

#26 Frank,

"It's nature, not some dark conspiracy to withhold the bad news."

Agreed. But, the extent of the bad news can be held back and that's not conspiracy. I just don't want anyone sugar coating what's happening right now, in NO. Only Fox is retracting the words "Martial Law," local NO media have not retracted from it or at least, yet. Not all cell towers were shorted, early this morning.

Currently, correct me if I am wrong, they are not allowing news helicopter flyovers in NO. All I see is old video.

Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-30 13:54|| 2005-08-30 13:54|| Front Page Top

#27 It looks like the media is showing new video and is taking NO seriously. This was not the case early morning. I never thought I would be so glad to say that I am wrong about how this situation is being handled. Also, local online media is stating that they are very satisfied at the way FEMA and the always brave US Coast Guard is doing the best they can, under the circumstances.

Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-30 14:18|| 2005-08-30 14:18|| Front Page Top

#28 Where the hell is the USS Comfort and all the helos used in the tsumnai effort??!!!???

The gov had better kick it up a notch and take care of our own like they did for Indonesia.

Posted by Yosemite Sam 2005-08-30 15:18|| 2005-08-30 15:18|| Front Page Top

#29 the city will be uninhabitable for weeks (til the water's pumped out) and months before power and decontamination and fresh water is done. The City is effectively done. Nobody's candycoating it, they're just beginning to realize the extent of the damage and implications. Jobs will be lost, entire school districts shoved somewhere else, no tourism for up to 6 mos +. They're f*&ked. I feel so badly for them and Mississippi, which, being more rural, will take longer to assess. Highway 10 looks smashed...all the highway section across Pontchartrain has missing and displaced deck sections/piers....Watch Fox helicopter shots....live and old shots

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-08-30 15:18|| 2005-08-30 15:18|| Front Page Top

#30 FEMA gamed this exact situation as have other emergency agencies over the last couple of years. Everyone was as ready as they could be. Where you are going to see failures will be the hospitals and nursing homes who did inadequate planning, all the morons who did not evacuate or move to a shelter, and the media who will be chasing their own tails repeatedly.

No matter how you plan, or stock up, or anything to do with readiness, nature can always be bigger, larger and tougher. This hurricane was 1,000 miles wide. That is so huge that the human mind can barely comprehend it.

Posted by Chuck Simmins">Chuck Simmins 2005-08-30 15:20|| http://blog.simmins.org]">[http://blog.simmins.org] 2005-08-30 15:20|| Front Page Top

#31 Wow. CNN does just made the Katrina-Iraq connection. Wolf Blitzer asked the CNN Pentagon correspondent if there are enough National Guard troops available because of Iraq. The answer was that there is more than enough troops available.
The perfect opportunity to do some Bush bashing.
What took them so long?

Posted by Rafael 2005-08-30 15:26|| 2005-08-30 15:26|| Front Page Top

#32 evakuatin the superdome now.

Posted by muck4doo 2005-08-30 15:26|| http://meatismurder.blogspot.com/]">[http://meatismurder.blogspot.com/] 2005-08-30 15:26|| Front Page Top

#33 mebbe greta leeves aruba now

Posted by muck4doo 2005-08-30 15:27|| http://meatismurder.blogspot.com/]">[http://meatismurder.blogspot.com/] 2005-08-30 15:27|| Front Page Top

#34 Rafael, CNN was asking that question on Sunday night before the storm hit: "Did the President's was in Iraq divert resources from planning from a hurricane in NO?"

Posted by Seafarious">Seafarious 2005-08-30 15:30|| 2005-08-30 15:30|| Front Page Top

#35 Tidbits on WWLTV.com blog:
3:07 P.M. - Governor Blanco: We are looking for ways to get people out of the Superdome and out of New Orleans said Governor Blanco as she tried to keep from crying.

2:39 P.M. - Jeff Parish councilman Tom Capella says pumps working near Veterans and West Esplanade and water is receeding there. He says break in levee at 17th Street canal continues to pour water into Lakeview.

2:30 P.M. - Coast Guard says it has rescued 1,200 people so far in Louisiana.

2:09 P.M. - Video on WAFB-TV shows the Twin Spans between I-10 and Slidell broken in dozens of spots.

2:07 P.M. - (AP) -- A top casino executive is calling on the Mississippi Legislature to enact emergency legislation to keep the state's coast gaming industry alive. Treasure Bay Casino President and CEO Bernie Burkholder says most of the casino hotels on the coast survived Hurricane Katrina, but several gambling barges suffered extensive damage. He says it could take several years to rebuild.

2:01 P.M. - Jefferson Parish President Aaron Broussard says there is no plumbing and the sanitary situation is getting nasty. He told WAFB-TV that he is carrying around a bag for his own human waste.

1:26 P.M. - Officials at LSU and local hospitals say they are triaging thousands of people being brought from outside the Baton Rouge area for medical care. The people are being bused in.

1:08 P.M. - "I'm very hopeful, with the devastation we've had, that the number (of deaths) will be much more reasonable than people think. There are not thousands of people floating around." -- Terry Ebbert, New Orleans' homeland security chief.

1:05 P.M. - (AP) -- With much of the city emptied by Hurricane Katrina, some opportunists took advantage of the situation by looting stores. At a Walgreen's drug store in the French Quarter, people were running out with grocery baskets and coolers full of soft drinks, chips and diapers. When police finally showed up, a young boy stood in the door screaming, "86! 86!" -- the radio code for police -- and the crowd scattered. Around the corner on Canal Street, the main thoroughfare in the central business district, people sloshed headlong through hip-deep water as looters ripped open the steel gates on the front of several clothing and jewelry stores. One man, who had about 10 pairs of jeans draped over his left arm, was asked if he was salvaging things from his store. "No," the man shouted, "that's EVERYBODY'S store."

12:44 P.M. - (AP) The Louisiana Offshore Oil Port did NOT suffer major damage as a result of Hurricane Katrina. And a port official says the flow of oil could resume within "a matter of hours" once its power supply is restored.

11:58 A.M. - Homeland security chief optimistic that 3,000 pound sandbags can plug 200 foot levee break at 17th Street Canal.

Posted by Steve">Steve 2005-08-30 16:11|| 2005-08-30 16:11|| Front Page Top

#36 I'm waiting for the Islamic websites to start cheering and saying this was the wrath of Allan.

Oh, and you think the US will get anywhere near as much aid from the rest of the world as we alone gave after the tsunami?

Posted by growler 2005-08-30 16:19|| 2005-08-30 16:19|| Front Page Top

#37 Oh, and you think the US will get anywhere near as much aid from the rest of the world as we alone gave after the tsunami?

We will get $0 aid from the rest of the world. This might just be the turning point in American generosity. Pull the aid packages, foreign aid and others to pay for NO. Not one more American red cent for the other countries. I'm so sick and tired of paying for other countries problems and not getting anything when we need help except hate.

Posted by mmurray821 2005-08-30 16:36|| 2005-08-30 16:36|| Front Page Top

#38 Breaking on Fox (no link yet).

Governor orders all evacuation of all [non-emergency I would guess??] personnel from NO.

Posted by Jackal">Jackal 2005-08-30 16:40|| home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]">[home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html] 2005-08-30 16:40|| Front Page Top

#39 go to wlbt.com right now. They've got 20+ minutes of video from a helicopter showing what used to be Gulfport, MS. It's pretty much gone.

Posted by growler 2005-08-30 16:53|| 2005-08-30 16:53|| Front Page Top

#40 What they don't need now is another huricane in the northern gulf....several weeks left in this season..

Posted by crazyhorse 2005-08-30 16:56|| 2005-08-30 16:56|| Front Page Top

#41 Jobs will be lost, entire school districts shoved somewhere else, no tourism for up to 6 mos +. They're f*&ked. I feel so badly for them and Mississippi, which, being more rural, will take longer to assess
The hospitality industry is such a hugh economic engine in that area it is painful to even consider...Tourists come to NO for conventions, sporting events, embarking cruises, casino visits. The subsets of industries just to service hospitality, and service sector jobs disrupted or washed away is very hard to even begin to fathom. Plus the housing loss, the big spend people who have means will have to have to pay, and those that don't will have to have provided.
Not taking away the shock of losing the WTC,are the clean up efforts for NO going to be ten fold, or greater than what NYC faced in the fall of 2001?

Posted by Capsu 78 2005-08-30 16:59|| 2005-08-30 16:59|| Front Page Top

#42 One FEMA director is saying that there may be FEMA personnel who will spend their entire career on this project.

Posted by Chuck Simmins">Chuck Simmins 2005-08-30 18:39|| http://blog.simmins.org]">[http://blog.simmins.org] 2005-08-30 18:39|| Front Page Top

#43 depends Capsu - if the Jersey Girls show up or not

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-08-30 18:52|| 2005-08-30 18:52|| Front Page Top

#44 Just got word that the sandbagging have failed. Working pumps will/have stop functioning. The levies have been breached, again. The rescuers were passing up dead bodies to save the ones in the attic. There are still thousands still stuck in the attic and probably dead by now. There is nothing to do but save as many people as possible. NO is a gonner.

Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-30 19:33|| 2005-08-30 19:33|| Front Page Top

#45 Well, I'm praying for those folks--God be with them.
I only visited NO twice, but I really enjoyed it and think it's just a wonderful city.
Commander's Palace, the Quarter, chicory coffee and beignets at the French market, breakfast at Brennan's, hurricanes (ahem), riding the streetcar along St. Charles and Dixieland jazz-love it all!

Posted by Jennie Taliaferro">Jennie Taliaferro 2005-08-30 20:16|| http://www.greatestjeneration.com]">[http://www.greatestjeneration.com] 2005-08-30 20:16|| Front Page Top

#46 Heard on TV that the water has stopped rising.

Posted by john 2005-08-30 20:32|| 2005-08-30 20:32|| Front Page Top

#47 Don't believe it, that's PC talk. What they mean is that, the lake will equalize with the city. The lake is rising. Then in a couple of days, as the Ohio River Valley is being flooded, the water will come down the Mississippi River, if the levies are not fixed, (they won't be)it will the Miss. Rvr's turn to flood the city.

Previous construction created artifical Miss. Rvr tributaries the in the basin which goes through NO. The unnatural Miss. Rvr divertion within the proximity of NO, should concern the Army Corps Eng.

Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-30 21:11|| 2005-08-30 21:11|| Front Page Top

#48 different levee system, PR - sorry. Lake's levee is leaking. River's levee is holding, to date, with no reason why it won't

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-08-30 21:25|| 2005-08-30 21:25|| Front Page Top

#49 Frank,

Once again you are right, for now. But, you are missing my point. I doubt the river levee will hold up when the flood waters from the huge rainfall from TS/TD Katrina drain South into the Gulf. Although, the Miss. Rvr. flooded in 1993, the river levee saved NO but, things different after this powerful storm. We won't know anything until 3 or 4 days go by. The media needs to start talking about this possibility, right now.

Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-30 21:41|| 2005-08-30 21:41|| Front Page Top

#50 granted - let's see how both do - I'm a little distressed by someone's post that the patch on teh Lake levee failed? Not the way to design a city....have they never played Sims with their kids?
/sarcasm

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-08-30 21:44|| 2005-08-30 21:44|| Front Page Top

#51 I would like all of you to know that the "Global Warming Warning" blame has been uttered by Germany's rabid leftist environment minister Trittin, who has less than three weeks before he's run out of office. He does in no ways represent the true sentiments of the German people.

For those who haven't been watching CNN all day the magnitude of this natural disaster is still beyond comprehension. A week ago we had serious floods in the Alps which now seem to be rather trivial in comparison.

Let me express my sincere condolences to all who lost beloved ones and all my best hopes for those who lost their house, their property, their jobs. In true American spirit, you will fight back. I have no doubts that you will.

Posted by True German Ally 2005-08-30 22:33|| 2005-08-30 22:33|| Front Page Top

#52 When I went to work this morning the worst damage on TV was a yacht clubhouse on fire. What a drastic turn of events. I don't know how long it will take the water to recede, but reports of people not being able to return to their home for a month or more seem extreme. Pray that the death toll is nowhere near some of the speculation in the media.

PS. TGA, wasn't the German floods that got Schroeder reelected also blamed on global warming and the Americans?

Posted by ed 2005-08-30 22:43|| 2005-08-30 22:43|| Front Page Top

#53 TGA - God bless you. Herr - du kannst brucken bauen.....

Posted by Bobby 2005-08-30 22:51|| 2005-08-30 22:51|| Front Page Top

#54 Sorry, TGA no Omlauts. Es tut mir leid.

Posted by Bobby 2005-08-30 22:56|| 2005-08-30 22:56|| Front Page Top

#55 It would be presumptiuous of me to accept your wishes for the victims. I appreciate your thoughts and sincerity, and I too, hope to God these people receive relief ASAP. Felt the same for the Tsunami victims....grief transcends

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-08-30 23:05|| 2005-08-30 23:05|| Front Page Top

#56 @ed, I don't remember well. We just had some serious floods in the Alps (well don't seem so serious in comparison now) and Global Warming was mentioned.

Btw I find Global Warming a real possibility. How much we are responsable of it is quite another debate.

A few days ago they ran a BBC documentary about "global dimming" (soot in the atmosphere actually leads to cooling and in some ways offsets global warming).

The real problem is not climate change. We always had that. But now it's the first time that climatical changes hit a highly developed world. And so, unfortunately, we will see more disasters like that. And millions of people affected in zones that, given the climate, should not be densely populated.

Hurricanes of course have always existed. And will long after we are gone.

Posted by True German Ally 2005-08-30 23:07|| 2005-08-30 23:07|| Front Page Top

#57 Instaguy has a list of good charities you can pick from to donate - I use Catholic Charities -low o/h and the money gets to all creeds. choose your own and help as you see fit

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2005-08-30 23:24|| 2005-08-30 23:24|| Front Page Top

#58 My engineer colleague got a call from his son at Tulane Univ hospital. The water was up to the car tops and the power went out. His son is a 3rd year surgical resident. They are moving patients out. Helos come every 25 minutes, so it is slow. They are taking them to Lafayette. A number of transplant patients in the mix, too. This doctor and his med student wife will leave after all the patients are safely evacuated. They figure that it will be at least 2 months before Tulane is back in operation. No cell phone no mo'.

Posted by Alaska Paul">Alaska Paul 2005-08-30 23:46|| 2005-08-30 23:46|| Front Page Top

23:53 bigjim-ky
23:51 hippies go away
23:50 bigjim-ky
23:49 rjschwarz
23:46 Alaska Paul
23:40 Ulinesh Flomogum5012
23:34 Alaska Paul
23:24 Frank G
23:14 Barbara Skolaut
23:13 Rafael
23:07 True German Ally
23:06 Frank G
23:05 Frank G
23:01 Frank G
23:01 ed
22:57 badanov
22:56 Bobby
22:51 Bobby
22:45 Frank G
22:43 ed
22:39 Raj
22:39 Ulomomble Ebberesh6337
22:35 Red Dog
22:33 True German Ally