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2004-08-25 Syria-Lebanon-Iran
Iran producing Nuke Def Equipt (using Juche philosophy)
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Posted by Super Hose 2004-08-25 01:11|| || Front Page|| [11127 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 You Americans are hard to understand. America doesn't want Iran having nuclear power right? Yet you guys export nuclear fuel http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/product/enduse/exports/c5070.html to Iran. Strange bedfellows you are.
Posted by Murat 2004-08-25 8:27:54 AM||   2004-08-25 8:27:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Link broken, shit-fer-brains.
Posted by Howard UK 2004-08-25 9:00:17 AM||   2004-08-25 9:00:17 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 Difference between fuel for electricity and fuel for use in nuclear weapons may explain this.. I would agree - WTF! Why do we give these Allan-oriented-moonbats anything dangerous to play with - treat 'em like kids, I say. Theocracy eh? Tut!
Posted by Howard UK 2004-08-25 9:04:34 AM||   2004-08-25 9:04:34 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 Try this one mr dUcK: http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/product/enduse/exports/c5070.html
Posted by Murat 2004-08-25 9:08:52 AM||   2004-08-25 9:08:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 I see HTML has overwhelmed your extensive intellect.
Posted by Howard UK 2004-08-25 9:16:15 AM||   2004-08-25 9:16:15 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 OK, I would like a rational explanation for why the hell we have sold "Nuclear Fuel Materials" to Iran for the last two years.
I'd like to believe that there is a rational explanation.

Anyone?
Posted by Kelvin Zero 2004-08-25 9:40:06 AM||   2004-08-25 9:40:06 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 The question is, just what constitutes "nuclear fuel materials"? (sorry Murat, but nuclear fuel MATERIALS doesn't necessarily mean the fuel itself)
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-08-25 10:45:03 AM||   2004-08-25 10:45:03 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 Smart explanation Bomb-a-rama, so what is it then?
Destilized cooling water perhaps? :)
Posted by Murat 2004-08-25 10:50:18 AM||   2004-08-25 10:50:18 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 The amount of dollars (below $2M each year) is fairly trivial. It could be radiation detectors, it could be decontamination software, it could be a lot of things.
Posted by mhw 2004-08-25 11:26:26 AM||   2004-08-25 11:26:26 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 It could be radiation detectors, it could be decontamination software, it could be a lot of things. Correct, and what are the chances that some of those components are - oops! - defective. Of course then, there's sKerry who has already stated he would follow in Clinton's footsteps and practically give em the stuff.
Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-08-25 12:24:00 PM||   2004-08-25 12:24:00 PM|| Front Page Top

#11 OMG! WE'VE GOT TO ATTACK IRAN IMMEDIATELY AND RECOVER THAT STUFF AND REPAIR THE DAMAGE WE'VE DONE!

Heh, works for me with the choppers we sold to Saddam that were use to Gas the Kurds.
Posted by Ptah  2004-08-25 12:39:57 PM|| [http://www.crusaderwarcollege.org]  2004-08-25 12:39:57 PM|| Front Page Top

#12 It could be radiation detectors, it could be decontamination software

Yeah buddy, I bet that's it! Strange that we call such stuff "nuclear fuel materials" instead of detectors or software. :) You guys make me laugh, must be American humor.
Posted by Murat 2004-08-25 1:24:03 PM||   2004-08-25 1:24:03 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 Murat, where to you get this "we" stuff?
Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-08-25 1:34:22 PM||   2004-08-25 1:34:22 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Murat

You may not understand the way the Standard Industrial Codes work.

The US produces over one million types of products (and within a product, many brands).

The US govt (I presume the govt of Turkey works similarly) does not want to keep records on everything especially since new products are being introduced to the market every year. That's why they group products.

Even this isn't enough and every few years new product groupings need to be created.

That's why radiation detectors, decontamination software, radiation protectionware (in these three areas the US has some of the best products in the world), etc. is all grouped together. Without such grouping, the data collection would not be possible and it would also be a problem from the standpoint of propriatory information.
Posted by mhw 2004-08-25 1:37:44 PM||   2004-08-25 1:37:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Sure MHW, grouping all industrial products as fuel makes sense, especially nuclear fuel, come on you can do better.
Posted by Murat 2004-08-25 1:44:44 PM||   2004-08-25 1:44:44 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 I looked thru the numbers again. I noticed that our exports of tobacco products to Iran has gone way up in the past two years. That may be because they were classified as something else the years immediately preceding the past two years.

Or the Mullahs may have recently taken american cigarettes of the harem list.
Posted by mhw 2004-08-25 1:46:15 PM||   2004-08-25 1:46:15 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Strange that we call such stuff "nuclear fuel materials" instead of detectors or software. :) You guys make me laugh, must be American humor.

"Materials" can encompass quite a number of things, which is why detail is necessary before coming to any conclusion of any value. You're only seeing the "nuclear fuel" part of "nuclear fuel materials". Which doesn't come as much of a surprise, really.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-08-25 1:48:31 PM||   2004-08-25 1:48:31 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 Murat

You missed the point.

Look back over the export list again. Look at 21180 Industrial machines, other. That category contains all kinds of items.

Look at 21110 Food, tobbaco machinery. Again lots of products there.

It is not simply a matter of convenience that radiation protectionware is placed in nuclear fuel materials. It is also that the companies that produce nuclear fuel components also produce their own accessory items. Thus the company that makes Uranium dioxide pellets also has a line of items to help you handle their product (partly so they can sell their product, partly to make sure the govt. regulators will provide permits to the buyers of said products).
Posted by mhw 2004-08-25 1:54:05 PM||   2004-08-25 1:54:05 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Maybe it's the capitalism thingy that has Murat confused. However the same model works with Juche. Grass, tree bark and White Slag® are all Juche materials. While they do not of themselves constitute Juche, they are integral to the implementatioin of the Juche philosophy.
Posted by Rex Mundi 2004-08-25 2:04:11 PM||   2004-08-25 2:04:11 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Let's suppose you guys Bombarama and MHW are right then again why would America export materials wich have obviously some function with nuclear fuel, be it holders, radiation protectionware or else to arch-enemy Iran.

I see you guys are so soft hearted, you want to protect those poor Mullahs from eroneously shot DU amunition which lands on Iranian soil, am I right?

No, better is the next claim will be: (like WMD in Iraq) Iran is in posesion of nuclear fuel materials, we have proof cos we sold it!
Posted by Murat 2004-08-25 2:05:32 PM||   2004-08-25 2:05:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#21 Sure MHW, grouping all industrial products as fuel makes sense, especially nuclear fuel, come on you can do better.

So you've never dealt with UNSPSC codes? They're a similar concept, if a bit more exact in the range of goods and services covered by each code.

I hope we never see anyone delivering services 92112100 or 92112403.

Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-08-25 2:08:19 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com]  2004-08-25 2:08:19 PM|| Front Page Top

#22 Let's suppose you guys Bombarama and MHW are right then again why would America export materials wich have obviously some function with nuclear fuel, be it holders, radiation protectionware or else to arch-enemy Iran.

Perhaps they were required to purchase it by the IAEA?

I see you guys are so soft hearted, you want to protect those poor Mullahs from eroneously shot DU amunition which lands on Iranian soil, am I right?

DU ammunition is NOT "nuclear fuel", you moron.

BTW -- export code 11300 also shows up in regards to Anguilla, Brazil, France, Switzerland, the Phillipines, New Zealand(!), Norway, Luxembourg, Iceland, Hong Kong, Haiti, Cyprus, the Bahamas, Mongolia, Papua New Guinea, Sao Tome and Principe, and even a nation called Turkey.

Perhaps that export code has a wider meaning than you think?
Posted by Robert Crawford  2004-08-25 2:27:48 PM|| [http://www.kloognome.com]  2004-08-25 2:27:48 PM|| Front Page Top

#23 Murat,

1. it is a relatively trivial amount of product

2. a good reason to sell it to Iran is to facilitate decontamination work. If a site is too contaminated, the antiproliferation ops become very problematic; another good reason to sell it is prevent Iran from using the 'we can buy the stuff we need for nuclear electrical generation so we have to use the nuclear bomb stuff we can get from Pakistan' excuse.
Posted by mhw 2004-08-25 2:31:16 PM||   2004-08-25 2:31:16 PM|| Front Page Top

#24 stupid me-
in #2 the excuse should begin 'we can't...'
sorry about that - my eyesight isn't what it used to be
Posted by mhw 2004-08-25 2:32:32 PM||   2004-08-25 2:32:32 PM|| Front Page Top

#25 Murat,
Iran has several reactors, including a 5MW research reactor supplied under the Shah. It has no need for the US to provide fuel for that reactor since Argentina supplied over 100kg of 20% enriched uranium 15 years ago. In addition, Iran has a lot of uranium underground. What other countries cannot provide are spare parts or fuel rod containers (zirconium or other high temp ceramics) for that 5MW reactor. Since it is a research reactor, it undergoes thermal cycles more often than a commercial reactor, and the fuel elements and containers are more likely to develop cracks unless inspected and replaced.

From your link, the total value of nuclear exports to Iran 1999-2003 was $199,000. That seems a very low amount for spare parts to keep a even small reactor up and running. It indicates they had a lage stockpile of spares under the Shah or that Iran is making or buying eslewhere most of the spares and importing from the US only the most critical parts (e.g. Zirconium fuel containers). Personally, I would ban all nuclear material to Iran, safety related or not. But then I don't care if the reactor leaks and contaminates downtown Tehran.
Posted by ed 2004-08-25 2:34:13 PM||   2004-08-25 2:34:13 PM|| Front Page Top

#26 BTW -- export code 11300 also shows up in regards to..

What's also worth mentioning is that code 113 is labeled "Nuclear fuel materials and fuels", so it would seem to me that 11300 is the stuff associated with nuclear fuels (whatever that might encompass), and 113 would include the actual uranium pellets themselves.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2004-08-25 3:00:01 PM||   2004-08-25 3:00:01 PM|| Front Page Top

#27 Ed,

noticed you used the phrase
What other countries cannot provide

seems you may have the same eye problems as I do
Posted by mhw 2004-08-25 4:57:07 PM||   2004-08-25 4:57:07 PM|| Front Page Top

#28 I wouldn't use the US foreign trade statistic code as a determinator of what was exported, unless you know what's classed as 'fuel materials and fuels' under 11300.

IMNSHO, a more accurate determinator would be the United States Harmonized Tariff Schedule B code (nuclear is 84XX series - I think).
Posted by Pappy 2004-08-25 9:11:21 PM||   2004-08-25 9:11:21 PM|| Front Page Top

#29 Is it possible that the "nuclear" material is for medical purposes?
Posted by Super Hose 2004-08-25 9:23:23 PM||   2004-08-25 9:23:23 PM|| Front Page Top

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