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2011-08-23 Economy
Why Amazon Can't Make A Kindle In the USA
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Posted by DarthVader 2011-08-23 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11130 views ]  Top

#1 No problem. We'll just sell each other cell phone contracts & insurance.
Posted by PBMcL 2011-08-23 00:54||   2011-08-23 00:54|| Front Page Top

#2 Oh, and of course, sue the evil pharmaceutical companies. Today's miracle drug is tomorrow's litigation target.
Posted by PBMcL 2011-08-23 00:59||   2011-08-23 00:59|| Front Page Top

#3 Someday soon, someone who says "You want fries with that?" will be seen as a Captain of Industry...
Posted by tu3031 2011-08-23 01:40||   2011-08-23 01:40|| Front Page Top

#4 I figured we'd just take in each other's laundry. No problem.
Posted by eLarson 2011-08-23 07:13||   2011-08-23 07:13|| Front Page Top

#5 Let me guess "It's all Bammer's fault!!!"...
Posted by Trembling B4 G*d 2011-08-23 07:19||   2011-08-23 07:19|| Front Page Top

#6 He's not helping.

He doesn't realize that when he advocates all those 'green' jobs, that all those jobs will be in .. China.

It's not like we can make the solar panels in the USA, given that we've allowed the critical technology to leave our country.

You want jobs? You have to invest for the long haul, and keep the country a place where business can invest for the long haul. Our B-schools turn out people who think quarter-to-quarter, and our government is filled with nitwits.

Welcome to the new world.
Posted by Steve White 2011-08-23 07:43||   2011-08-23 07:43|| Front Page Top

#7 You want jobs? You have to be willing to accept globalized pay rates. Labor isn't as fungible as oil, but it's getting closer all the time. The jobs will go to the lowest bidder. And China, like all the other tigers of the orient, is creating lots of engineers as well as line workers off the farm. It's not like American manufacturing has some kind of quality premium that will justify first world pay rates any m ore. Our kids do not know the hole they are digging with their addiction to iPods and Hannah Montana.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2011-08-23 07:54||   2011-08-23 07:54|| Front Page Top

#8 Yea, I can see all the IT firms living Israel for China, NS.
Posted by g(r)omgoru 2011-08-23 08:28||   2011-08-23 08:28|| Front Page Top

#9 350m Ameicans COULD buy have bought from other AMERICANS and survive quite well!

We were sold out by the globalists and their pals in millionaire D.C. many decades ago. The "Giant Sucking Sound" was a warning no one heeded. As a kid I remember watchig the old news reel "Industry on Parade." We were the greatest. I'm not certain if it can ever return.
Posted by Besoeker 2011-08-23 08:42||   2011-08-23 08:42|| Front Page Top

#10 I'm not certain if it can ever return.

Nothing but the elimination of the EPA and a world war are necessary.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2011-08-23 09:06||   2011-08-23 09:06|| Front Page Top

#11 ea, I can see all the IT firms living Israel for China, NS.

I can see them being undersold.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2011-08-23 09:07||   2011-08-23 09:07|| Front Page Top

#12 Our B-schools turn out people who think quarter-to-quarter,...

Because the institutional investment entities demand it of the corporations they hold the paper on. Of course, we're the ones who elect the sockpuppets who bail out such institutions when their gambling fails.

350m Ameicans COULD buy have bought from other AMERICANS and survive quite well!

Maybe, but the cost per unit would have been threefold, fivefold or tenfold as expensive. Development and evolution of those items would have consequently been far slower. The real question in the analysis is whether the cost of carrying the unemployed is more expensive than the cost added to the items being manufactured in country.

Not to factor in binding countries like China into the economic system which adds new calculations to what they do and how they do it on the world stage. One of the nightmares that haunted decisions makers in the latter half of the 20th Century was 'what were you willing to do to avoid the conflagrations of the first half of the century'. Those things weren't cheap in resources or lives. History is still out on the call on that issue.
Posted by Procopius2k 2011-08-23 11:10||   2011-08-23 11:10|| Front Page Top

#13 China poor and under Communism was neutered. China with America's former industrial might and under Communism-lite dictatorship is extremely dangerous.
Posted by Eohippus Phater7165 2011-08-23 11:23||   2011-08-23 11:23|| Front Page Top

#14 The stability of the area where a multi-million project will be set up must be taken into consideration, if anything because the insurance will take it into consideration.

Something I have heard about asia is, "Yeah, they are effn crooks, but the graft is up front and more or less set. Here (in the US) you go through your channels, begin a project, get hit by a graft desguised as an ngo, then continue, thne hit by another, then complete the project and get shut down."

Places such as Macao offer all the ammenities, access to cheap labor, materials, in a safe and secure environment; like a Cancun but for business. Its China, you know who you are dealing with. How do you compare that to a law which must be passed before anyone knows what is in it, when that law has massive implications upon businesses and how they must handle their employees. Ya got an unelected agency, the EPA, shifting about what is and is not a pollutant and the ability to levy fines at the whims of whoever is in charge.

Has this happened overnight? No. A vast majority of consumers do not have the extra cash to buy quality, rather have a bunch of junk which needs replacing than a few good items which last. Notably, the product needing replacing sells more as a rule. Is this Bammer's fault, not directly, but the last 2-3 years has been a real kick in the balls for those companies who want to see Made in the USA, almost as if their loyalty to stay it out is being taken advantage of. Oh, except for Big Auto and Big Bank, who got to cheat.
Posted by swksvolFF 2011-08-23 11:36||   2011-08-23 11:36|| Front Page Top

#15 except for Big Auto..

Actually, Big Union. It goes back to that corruption bit you point out as part of the process rather than just up front as elsewhere.
Posted by Procopius2k 2011-08-23 12:28||   2011-08-23 12:28|| Front Page Top

#16 Let me guess "It's all Bammer's fault!!!"...

I'm so sick of hearing them parrot this nonsense. Stick around, troll, and you'll see all kinds of criticism of Republicans too. Read the articles and some of the more articulate posts. You might learn a thing or two.
Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2011-08-23 12:29||   2011-08-23 12:29|| Front Page Top

#17 Globalized labor markets are toothpaste out of the tube. No putting it back in. Wishing for that to happen is like wishing that the tooth fairy is real.

Tariffs will only work short term and by delaying the inevitable will cause the final crash to be that much worse. Nimble Spemble and P2K and swksvolFF have the truth of it. We've allowed our material expectations for the worth a given unit of work to exceed the actual value of that work. Not in every case, or every job, or every industry, but in many, many of them. And the hyperregulatory environment (which is just another wealth redistribution scheme, at its base) the government at all levels has created makes things even worse.

Instead of wailing and gnashing of teeth, or cynical and lazy solutions by politicians like tariffs or allowing illegal immigration, we need to retool the material expectations of Americans back to a realistic level and eliminate the rent-seekers who have created this draconian regulatory environment. Only then can we get jobs back and keep them here.

Sadly, no politician has the cojones to tell that truth to the American public.
Posted by no mo uro 2011-08-23 14:51||   2011-08-23 14:51|| Front Page Top

#18 Our labor costs are higher than in China, no question about it. But there are a whole raft of other costs that dwarf what you encounter in Asia. Workman's comp, all kinds of insurance, Obamacare, EPA, etc., etc. Heck, you can see the variation on a state by state basis. So faced with all of this, of course the manufacturing is done overseas. If we could reign in the lawyers and the EPA (at least to the degree where the environment is protected, but not to the degree where I should be able to drink the water from the assembly line)we could go a long way to rebuilding our manufacturing base.
Posted by remoteman 2011-08-23 14:54||   2011-08-23 14:54|| Front Page Top

#19 The US has even outsourced the production of its monuments - the new MLKJr. statue was made in China!
Posted by Anguper Hupomosing9418 2011-08-23 15:02||   2011-08-23 15:02|| Front Page Top

#20 Hey, it's Mao Luther King. And yes, it does look vaguely Maoish.
Posted by Eohippus Phater7165 2011-08-23 15:49||   2011-08-23 15:49|| Front Page Top

#21 and the King family charged $800,000 to use his image/words. Nice. I'd a told them it's free or they can stick it where the sun don't shine
Posted by Frank G 2011-08-23 16:29||   2011-08-23 16:29|| Front Page Top

#22 Jesse's will one hand out. Palm up.
Posted by tu3031 2011-08-23 17:03||   2011-08-23 17:03|| Front Page Top

#23 I'm with remoteman. It ain't wages that's the problem, it's the taxes and regulations, and not even being able to run your own company as long as your operations are located _here_ in the US.

See the other link up today about the rigs leaving the Gulf. Or the refinery and power plant shutdowns in Texas.

None of those are from the worker's end-wages.
Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2011-08-23 17:10||   2011-08-23 17:10|| Front Page Top

#24 Heck, to give yet another example of bureaucracy run amok:

Look at where the World Trade Center used to be. It still hasn't been built yet. That's not because of wages. That's because "being in charge" means being able to stop something much more than being able to get something going.

The only way wages work into this is it's expensive to be paying all the people who are working the project and doing nothing.
Posted by Thing From Snowy Mountain 2011-08-23 17:41||   2011-08-23 17:41|| Front Page Top

#25 We have a professional administrator/regulator/bureacrat class in our society today. They are not interested in getting things done or built. Instead, their jobs are totally dependent on things not getting done (or only having a little bit get done so people still try). Whether it is the small town building department or the state or federal EPA, it is all the same schtick...we are here to protect you, we are here to maintain order. Horsepuckey! You are here to perpetuate your fiefdom. Now get out of the way!!!
Posted by remoteman 2011-08-23 17:42||   2011-08-23 17:42|| Front Page Top

#26 P2K, yes, corrected. Big Labor Unions, voting blocs, not those po-dunk local machinists who make corporate jets.
Posted by swksvolFF 2011-08-23 18:39||   2011-08-23 18:39|| Front Page Top

#27  I'm with remoteman. It ain't wages that's the problem, it's the taxes and regulations, and not even being able to run your own company as long as your operations are located _here_ in the US.

This is a good chunk of it, the regulations are killer, I remember having a similar conversation with coworkers about 4-5 years ago when discussing semiconductor fabs. Basically just the construction and equipment costs alone put an investment group well into the billion plus territory, toss in regulations, wage laws, siting regs, etc. and you're well into doubling your initial build costs. So of course these investment groups are going to build overseas where there's fewer regulations, lower costs of wages overall, and when you have to "bribe" a person they tend to stay relatively bought.

This has had a similar trickle down effect in the sense that it applies to ANY manufacturing process that is 1) Capital intensive 2) needs new infrastructure to be competitive 3)is dependent on no or little potential disruptions due to labor.

That being said I don't know that there's any "good" solution to the problem. What we are seeing overseas is in essence vertical integration of products in some sense (e.g using the Dell example, everything gets outsourced to a company(s) until it is completely produced in their chain). I suppose slashing apart the regs helps along with tax reductions, and probably with accompanying import tariffs of 100% or greater (I would never have said anything good about tariffs until this economy hit), but I doubt even that will see us have a rebuilding of critical manufacturing and technology in the US
Posted by Valentine 2011-08-23 19:14||   2011-08-23 19:14|| Front Page Top

#28 "I'm so sick of hearing them parrot this nonsense. Stick around, troll, and you'll see all kinds of criticism of Republicans too. Read the articles and some of the more articulate posts. You might learn a thing or two."

I'm shaking in anticipation for those articulate posts...and where, oh where, are those posts where you criticise Republicans...must be written in a yellowy, tiny font...
Posted by Trembling B4 G*d 2011-08-23 19:19||   2011-08-23 19:19|| Front Page Top

#29 Trembling B4 G*d - lean in close so you can hear me whisper this in your ear. It's a message from a Mod. You wrote: must be written in a yellowy, tiny font...

There is only one person here that uses that yellowy, tiny font. His name is Fred. I do hope you weren't referring to his comments. His font is yellowy, as most comments are, but his is smaller.

At great expense to him, he is giving you this "corner on the square" to rant all you want as long as it fits in the description of his site: Civil, well reasoned discourse. (That's at the top of the page in case you haven't see that. Just trying to help a newbie.)

You're discourse, with those words, just about stepped out of the boundary lines.

He controls the "kill switch," as do several Mods here.....

Keep it civil, keep it well reasoned (which you haven't done so far) and well, welcome to Rantburg. Let's see if you can measure up to being a part of all discourse that happens here.

Lots to be learned --- we call it Rantburg U. Good luck.... I hope you have civil, well reasoned discourse to offer us.
Posted by Sherry 2011-08-23 19:44||   2011-08-23 19:44|| Front Page Top

#30 "Trembling B4 G*d - lean in close so you can hear me whisper this in your ear. It's a message from a Mod. You wrote: must be written in a yellowy, tiny font..."

First off, this had nothing to do with Fred or his posting fonts, as he doesn't post in a yellowy font. It has to do with posting a yellow font against a yellow background, as in a normal post by hitting the normal 'comment' button by a normal visitor of this site. As in 'invisible'. How you can possibly construe that as a slight against the owner of this site is beyond the bounds of believability...

But as we say in Dutch "We moeten accepteren De kaarten geregeld voor ons, niet uit hoe oneerlijk zij kunnen worden"
Posted by Trembling B4 G*d 2011-08-23 20:14||   2011-08-23 20:14|| Front Page Top

#31 As we say in English, "If you don't like it here, get fuckin lost".
And I'm a moderator too.
Posted by tu3031 2011-08-23 20:21||   2011-08-23 20:21|| Front Page Top

#32 Oh hell, I'll join in. I'm another of the moderators here. And you are being a pain in the ass Tremblin, without adding commensurate value to either amuse or advance discussion.

Dutch is not one of my languages, but another of our mods might chime in with colloquialisms in your native tongue.
Posted by lotp 2011-08-23 20:27||   2011-08-23 20:27|| Front Page Top

#33 "As we say in English, "If you don't like it here, get fuckin lost".
And I'm a moderator too"

I love it here, so I will stay. But thanks for asking...
Posted by Trembling B4 G*d 2011-08-23 20:40||   2011-08-23 20:40|| Front Page Top

#34 Fine with me.
Be prepared...
Posted by tu3031 2011-08-23 20:42||   2011-08-23 20:42|| Front Page Top

#35 I was going to join in, too, but...

Oh wait...
Posted by badanov 2011-08-23 20:47|| http://www.freefirezone.org  2011-08-23 20:47|| Front Page Top

#36 heh...chew toy #3,289
Posted by Frank G 2011-08-23 20:54||   2011-08-23 20:54|| Front Page Top

#37 take 'em bad
Posted by Sherry 2011-08-23 21:24||   2011-08-23 21:24|| Front Page Top

#38 You wonder why we go to the trouble of liberating these people.
Posted by Matt 2011-08-23 21:32||   2011-08-23 21:32|| Front Page Top

#39 Trembling -- First off, this had nothing to do with Fred or his posting fonts, as he doesn't post in a yellowy font.

Oh yea he does..... Meet your host. Know how to use Search?
Posted by Sherry 2011-08-23 21:35||   2011-08-23 21:35|| Front Page Top

#40 "You wonder why we go to the trouble of liberating these people"

I could be wrong, and I will apologise in advance if I am, but if you are talking about liberating the Nederlands in WWII, it was the Canadians that did that. And us Dutch will always share that strong bound of respect and gratitude with them. They will always be welcome in my home anytime...
Posted by Trembling B4 G*d 2011-08-23 21:40||   2011-08-23 21:40|| Front Page Top

#41 Someone forget the sacrifices of the 82nd and 101st Airborne in Operation Market Garden in Holland.
Posted by Procopius2k 2011-08-23 21:44||   2011-08-23 21:44|| Front Page Top

#42 Although the drive toward Arnhem was halted, the two American Airborne divisions remained in place to tie down the Germans opposing them. The US 82d Airborne lost 1,432 killed and missing during Operation Market-Garden, and the US 101st Airborne sustained 2,110 casualties.

Once again, Trembly, you are proving yourself to be a fuckin idiot. Read a book or something before you shoot your mouth off.
Posted by tu3031 2011-08-23 21:55||   2011-08-23 21:55|| Front Page Top

#43 "Someone forget the sacrifices of the 82nd and 101st Airborne in Operation Market Garden in Holland."

If I have forgotten, excuse me for my ignorance, but I am sure other Dutch people have not forgotten. But we are all taught about the 1st Canadian Army liberating us from the Nazis and we will never forget that...
Posted by Trembling B4 G*d 2011-08-23 22:04||   2011-08-23 22:04|| Front Page Top

#44 "Once again, Trembly, you are proving yourself to be a fuckin idiot. Read a book or something before you shoot your mouth off. "

This is why we have that bound of gratitude and respect with Canadians...
Posted by Trembling B4 G*d 2011-08-23 22:06||   2011-08-23 22:06|| Front Page Top

#45 tu's not Canadian, idiot. Run your mouth some more. I fare ya
Posted by Frank G 2011-08-23 22:09||   2011-08-23 22:09|| Front Page Top

#46 or dare even :-)
Posted by Frank G 2011-08-23 22:10||   2011-08-23 22:10|| Front Page Top

#47 ...or the thousands of tons of food airdropped in April and May 1945 to those Netherlanders starving in still occupied Holland in Operation Chowhound. Need to read up more.
Posted by Procopius2k 2011-08-23 22:12||   2011-08-23 22:12|| Front Page Top

#48 Yes, I know.
Posted by Trembling B4 G*d 2011-08-23 22:12||   2011-08-23 22:12|| Front Page Top

#49 As that romantic line from "Casablanca said, "well always have Paris Srebrenica
Posted by badanov 2011-08-23 22:17|| http://www.freefirezone.org  2011-08-23 22:17|| Front Page Top

#50 Yeah, well I get a little angry when the sacrifice of 3500 dead Americans is pissed on by the ignorant offspring of people they died to liberate.

Posted by tu3031 2011-08-23 22:18||   2011-08-23 22:18|| Front Page Top

#51 ...and when a say 'gratitude and respect' with Canadians, I can add the word 'mutual' in front of that, something that I can't say for Americans...
Posted by Trembling B4 G*d 2011-08-23 22:19||   2011-08-23 22:19|| Front Page Top

#52 I have nothing but love and thankfulness for all who died defending and liberating Nederlands, whether they be Canadian, American, British, French. But there is something that someone once told me about the difference between Canadians and Americans. Canadians have to be prodded to acknowledge the contributions they made for our liberation, while Americans never let you forget theirs.

Good evening (that would be early morning here)...
Posted by Trembling B4 G*d 2011-08-23 22:26||   2011-08-23 22:26|| Front Page Top

#53 You have a great love of Canadians, Trembly. Why, it's almost like you are one...
Posted by tu3031 2011-08-23 22:32||   2011-08-23 22:32|| Front Page Top

#54 Trembling B4 G*d is gone for now.
Posted by badanov 2011-08-23 22:34|| http://www.freefirezone.org  2011-08-23 22:34|| Front Page Top

#55 Trembling -- you have yet to add any new info to our vast knowledge that is Rantburg U.

Just another cliquester that joins the "not a conformer clique" that becomes, from joining the "not a conformer," becomes a conformers.

But hey -- it's a new generation, and maybe the "hot" women tally the number of "rote talking points," and equate that with the "sexy" man. Not going back to score your words, but heavy on the "talking points"....

Just hope, tonight, she is as good as you want.
Posted by Sherry 2011-08-23 22:37||   2011-08-23 22:37|| Front Page Top

#56 opss -- thanks bad --- I was little late on the last response.

Glad he's gone....
Posted by Sherry 2011-08-23 22:39||   2011-08-23 22:39|| Front Page Top

#57 I could be wrong, and I will apologise in advance if I am, but if you are talking about liberating the Nederlands in WWII, it was the Canadians that did that. And us Dutch will always share that strong bound of respect and gratitude with them. They will always be welcome in my home anytime...

You are wrong. Very, very wrong. It was a truckful of American troops who brought my mother from Amersfoort, where she was hidden during the war by the Verheij family to Amsterdam where her parents had been hidden. It was the chocolate given to my mother by the American soldiers which revealed the allergy she had developed during the deprivations of the Hunger Winter of 1944-'45 when the Germans took everything movable back to their homeland,, leaving the Dutch to eat their tulip bulbs. If your teachers neglected to mention that, they are either incompetent or vicious, quite unlike the ones who allowed my mother to complete three years of high school work in three months at the lovely school-in-a-castle associated with Oxford University, giving her a diploma just in time to emigrate to America on her parents' visa before her twenty-first birthday. It,s all in my grandmother,s memoir, on file at Yad Vashem and the U.N.I.C.A. fraternity house in Amsterdam, which is still proud of their historic actions. They still live like pigs though -- my grandmother,s housekeeping has totally vanished over the years as we saw when we visited last year.
Posted by trailing wife 2011-08-23 23:16||   2011-08-23 23:16|| Front Page Top

#58 Too bad, Shakey. Try again tomorrow.
Posted by tu3031 2011-08-23 23:53||   2011-08-23 23:53|| Front Page Top

23:58 trailing wife
23:53 tu3031
23:48 trailing wife
23:47 JosephMendiola
23:39 trailing wife
23:19 JosephMendiola
23:16 trailing wife
23:07 JosephMendiola
23:06 tu3031
23:01 Frank G
22:57 Anonymoose
22:49 trailing wife
22:39 Sherry
22:37 Sherry
22:34 badanov
22:32 tu3031
22:32 Trembling B4 G*d
22:27 swksvolFF
22:27 DanNY
22:26 Trembling B4 G*d
22:19 Trembling B4 G*d
22:18 tu3031
22:17 badanov
22:12 Trembling B4 G*d









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