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2005-08-17 Home Front: Politix
Fine for Hiring Illegal Aliens Should Be $10k, Republican Says
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Posted by Steve 2005-08-17 09:42|| || Front Page|| [11127 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Ten pathetic K?
If a corporation has more than 10 on the take then authorize RICO. Nothing will get the owner or board's attention like the feds showing up taking possession of his/their bank account, car, home....
It does leave the corporation intact, but does a number on the operators :)
Posted by Angart Whereling4308 2005-08-17 10:11||   2005-08-17 10:11|| Front Page Top

#2 At $5000 per and with something more than a feeble effort at enforcement the problem would diminish greatly. Public notification of violators and the extent of their violations would also be useful to the rest of us in making choices about who we give our business.
Posted by MunkarKat 2005-08-17 10:37||   2005-08-17 10:37|| Front Page Top

#3 10% for citizens who turn in illegal alien employers/jobsites will stop illegal immigration in its tracks. Crimestoppers for Immigration.
Posted by ed 2005-08-17 10:46||   2005-08-17 10:46|| Front Page Top

#4  "A few members of Congress are going to have to lose their jobs over this"
Indeed!
Posted by DepotGuy 2005-08-17 10:46||   2005-08-17 10:46|| Front Page Top

#5 10% for citizens who turn in illegal alien employers/jobsites will stop illegal immigration in its tracks.

What about dwellings? My apartment complex would probably lose 30% of its tenants if the INS conducted a raid there.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2005-08-17 10:58||   2005-08-17 10:58|| Front Page Top

#6 ed: 10% for citizens who turn in illegal alien employers/jobsites will stop illegal immigration in its tracks. Crimestoppers for Immigration.

10% for public-spirited citizens and 10% for police departments. They'd also need to beef up payments for the detention of illegals in local facilities. Why build expensive new federal jails when locals can handle the load in existing facilities, when provided with federal funding?
Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei  2005-08-17 10:59|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2005-08-17 10:59|| Front Page Top

#7 "Democrats said that the federal government has failed to stop property destruction, thefts and other crimes associated with illegal immigration and drug running"

Everything is so politically correct now days. Why do the Dem'cts use the words "federal government" in this sentence? Let's plug in the words Sen. Boxer, Sen. Waters, Sen. Kennedy, Sen. Durbin, and Sen. Reid. There! That's sounds much better.

Of course, the truth is that the Dem'cts can't be seen in public committing cannibalism.

Posted by Poison Reverse 2005-08-17 11:12||   2005-08-17 11:12|| Front Page Top

#8 Article: Democrats said that the federal government has failed to stop property destruction, thefts and other crimes associated with illegal immigration and drug running

This is a pretty amazing charge, when you consider that local governments won't detain and help deport illegal immigrants and many have passed laws specifically preventing local government employees from reporting them as illegal.
Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei  2005-08-17 11:22|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2005-08-17 11:22|| Front Page Top

#9 David Brooks has an interesting column on this issue, printed today in my morning paper. I regret that the family tech mavens, James and Korora, aren't home to show me how to post a link, so you'll have to look it up.

Brooks's thesis is that "we make it nearly impossible for the immigrants to come here legally. We issue about 5000 visas for unskilled year round labor annually, but the economy requires hundreds of thousands of workers."

He goes on to say, "We're not going to get this situation under control until we understand this paradox: The more we simply crack down, the more disorder we get. The only way to re-establish order is to open up legal, controllable channels through which labor can flow in an above-ground, orderly way. We can't build a wall to stop this flood; we need sluice gates to regulate the flow."

He then describes some bills which would allow established illegals to stay provided they pay back taxes and some other penalties.

I question the choice of the verb "need." Does the economy "need" hundreds of thousands of low paid guest workers in the hospitality industries?" But I do agree with him that we need to be more realistic about the numbers of people who want to come here and really contribute to society. 5000 people is a most miserly limit.


Our friend Carlo was lucky enough to have a relative here. When his business went under in Argentina, he and his family were able to immigrate. I have never seen people work harder than Carlo and his wife, and now their 11 year old daughter is in line to recieve a community scholarship if she keeps up the good work through high school.

INS, meanwhile, has taken more than 15 years to process paperwork for Carlo's sister in law, whose husband is American. She fills out her paperwork, is told to wait 6 months for the next round. The six months comes and goes, they haven't finished her paperwork; but meanwhile her paperwork expires so she has to fill out a new form. And wait another 6 months.

Looking forward to some realistic proposals for dealing with the immigration issues. We need a major overhaul of INS bureaucracy, sensible numbers of visas, penalties for breaking the law that actually deter hiring illegals, and consistent enforcement.

Pardon the long commentary. I actually have half an hour of peace and quiet to write today.
Posted by mom 2005-08-17 11:35||   2005-08-17 11:35|| Front Page Top

#10 But if the arresting officer is part of a 'Sanctuary city/county/etc....' (like the Peoples Republic of Seattle) then *they* (the officers) get the split and not the sanctuary government.

This should also be extended to elected officals who enact 'sanctuary laws'.....
Posted by CrazyFool 2005-08-17 11:38||   2005-08-17 11:38|| Front Page Top

#11 Hey mom! I agree with you 100%. If we need more workers then change the farking law to allow more legal immigrants from all countries not just Mexico / Canada.

A friend of mine in Vancover BC has a business in Taiwan where he provides 'factory workers' to the factories there - mostly from the Philippines. He provides food, shelter, solves problems, disputes, etc... for his workers and provides decent workers for the factories. The workers get a good deal (they don't get ripped off and can save or send money home), he gets a cut (he's a decent guy and doesn't take advantage of them) and the factory get a stable supply of good workers.

These are not 'immigrants' but temporary workers.

There is no reason such a business could not work here to supply the 'migrant workers' is there? (outside of the unions who would demand their 'cut').
Posted by CrazyFool 2005-08-17 11:49||   2005-08-17 11:49|| Front Page Top

#12 He then describes some bills which would allow established illegals to stay provided they pay back taxes and some other penalties.

No. No illegal worker, illegal immigrant, whatever, that has been here for any amount of time should have any sort of advantage over any other immigrant or potential immigrant. Put them in line where they should be (where they should have gone in the first place), and make them sweat it out like everybody else. And furthermore, if people are only needed for "work", then they DON'T get to bring their families over here. PERIOD.
Posted by Bomb-a-rama 2005-08-17 14:04||   2005-08-17 14:04|| Front Page Top

#13 Put them in line where they should be (where they should have gone in the first place), and make them sweat it out like everybody else.

I dunno. Since they've already shown a tendency to ignore the law, they should be put on a second list that will only be used if we've already accepted all the people willing to immigrate legally.
Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford  2005-08-17 14:20|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/]  2005-08-17 14:20|| Front Page Top

#14 Agreed RC. Why the hell reward them when alot of people made the effort to come here through the existing system fairly and legally.
Posted by MunkarKat 2005-08-17 15:03||   2005-08-17 15:03|| Front Page Top

#15 I would favor giving them 30 days to get the fuck out,,, then its a LIFETIME BAN.

No Exceptions! No appeal!
Posted by CrazyFool 2005-08-17 15:46||   2005-08-17 15:46|| Front Page Top

#16 An economics lesson: In a market, the price rises or falls to the point where supply and demand are in equilibrium. This applies to labor, just as much as it does to any tradeable commodity. The argument that the USA or any other country needs immigrants illegal or otherwise to perform work that legal residents won't do is complete BS. Absent, the immigrants, the price for labor to do these jobs will rise and the demand will fall until equilibrium is reached.
Posted by phil_b 2005-08-17 16:00||   2005-08-17 16:00|| Front Page Top

#17 But Phil! We don't want to pay that much. God has granted us dollar lettuce, it's a birthright, along with expensive healthcare.
Posted by Shipman 2005-08-17 16:41||   2005-08-17 16:41|| Front Page Top

#18 It will take 10 times that amout to enforce and collect that ten thousand. It will cost ten times that to prosecute and lock somebody up for it too. It will end up with a happy richer lawyer, a happy ACLU, a happy illegal and poorer tax payers when then illegal walks.
Posted by Crumble Jush7440 2005-08-17 17:49||   2005-08-17 17:49|| Front Page Top

#19 Level the fine aginst the Corporation... and the CEO Personally.

How many illegals does Walmart employ? 2,000? (for example) that would end up costing the CEO something like... 20Million.... I think he would sit up and take notice.
Posted by CrazyFool 2005-08-17 17:56||   2005-08-17 17:56|| Front Page Top

#20 Crumble Jush - typical - It won't work, don't try it. Idiot
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2005-08-17 18:06||   2005-08-17 18:06|| Front Page Top

#21 I see a problem. I will get this fine for not knowing my 100 dollar a month Gardener is actually an illegal that acts and speaks like he has been here since birth. The Corporations will never be busted. That is how this stuff works. So screw this BS.

The INS could raid and go after illegals right now. The political will isn't there, the institutional mindset of the INS is to do everything is can to avoid dealing with the issue or even do it's job. It's not a lack of money or of manpower. It is a lack of the will of the management to do the job properly and the unionized workers to perform their jobs even if their bosses and union leadership don't like it.

The answer to every problem isn't new laws or throwing money at it. We already have the laws. The money has already been spent. Someone just needs a good kick in the butt so they do their job.
Posted by Sock Puppet 0’ Doom 2005-08-17 18:10||   2005-08-17 18:10|| Front Page Top

#22 CJ: It will take 10 times that amout to enforce and collect that ten thousand. It will cost ten times that to prosecute and lock somebody up for it too. It will end up with a happy richer lawyer, a happy ACLU, a happy illegal and poorer tax payers when then illegal walks.

It all depends. How much does it cost to enforce speed limits? Can the administrative processes be streamlined? I think $10K a pop is plenty. The issue is beating the ACLU in precedent-setting case, after which every other ACLU challenge for this kind of thing will automatically be summarily dismissed.
Posted by Zhang Fei">Zhang Fei  2005-08-17 18:33|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2005-08-17 18:33|| Front Page Top

#23 I don't think the fine will make much of a difference. I live Southern California and have employed dozens of Mexican immigrants. We have always required all of them to provide proper ID. We ask for their green cards, drivers licenses and social security cards. The problem is much of what we get is fake. We have no idea until years later. Usually the IRS sends us a letter that the employee's social security number does not mach IRS records. By that time the worker moves on to another job. No one I know (and we have an agricultural business) knowingly employs illegals. I doubt Wal Mart does either. Let's just secure the damn border once and for all!
Posted by intrinsicpilot 2005-08-17 18:44||   2005-08-17 18:44|| Front Page Top

21:59 Seafarious
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21:51 DanNY
21:45 Alaska Paul
21:33 Darrell
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21:19 Bobby
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20:35 Zhang Fei
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