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2006-08-09 Home Front: Politix
"I am no longer a Democrat."
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Posted by Mike 2006-08-09 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11127 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 Welcome to the Real World, Brendan. Yes, being a leftist sucks.
Posted by anonymous5089 2006-08-09 02:10||   2006-08-09 02:10|| Front Page Top

#2 Just read an interesting comment on the Ynetnews in response to the WaPo diatribe about Israel avoiding taking out HA launchers.

First of all:
Journalism is long dead. Esp. American journalism. It's just another business, like any other business that only exists because suckers exist.
Sucker-based businesses probably comprise 60% or more of the US economy.

Secondly:
As an old-style leftist, I'm absolutely disgusted with the New Left - all style, no subtance. And a dusgusting style at that. What used to be a movement for equitable distribution of economic output and political power and social progress has become a weird subculture of neurotics, gays, over-educated idiots, bored and sate European pseudo-intellectuals and their
Yank followers, typically
empty-headed poseurs like Mr. Ricks.

It's got its own "intellectual" fashion waves, such as intellectual sadomasochism in the form of Arab fetishism and Antisemitism in the form of Anti-Zionism. The worst offence one can commit against these new leftists is to bore them.
Holocaust is no longer relevant to them and BORING. Hence, Jews are boring. The Arabs are exciting -they blow themselves up and riot on the streets.


I disagree that 60% of US economy comprising of a sucker-based business, probably 15% would be a more realistic figure and with What used to be a movement for equitable distribution of economic output and political power and social progress--it was always a movement for redistribution of economic output and political power as I had the opportunity to observe its implementation from within. There was nothing equitable about it, nor could I observe any signs of social progress, whatever that is supposed to mean.

Everything else this poster nailed right smack on the head.
Posted by twobyfour 2006-08-09 04:54||   2006-08-09 04:54|| Front Page Top

#3 The MSM will spin this as the end of conservatism, capitalism, etc., and America is poised to finally grow up and be just like Western Europe.

They will have gotten it wrong, of course. This primary just lost the Dems whatever chance it had of winning over the middle in 2006. Doesn't exactly advance their cause.
Posted by no mo uro 2006-08-09 06:17||   2006-08-09 06:17|| Front Page Top

#4 This is a sad day for the Democratic Party; in fact, pathetic. It's a sad day for America, too.

But it's a great day, a triumphant day, for Islamic terrorists: for them, Lieberman's defeat is a solid datum that confirms for them that America really is losing the will to fight and that they will-- soon perhaps-- succeed in getting us to slink home from Iraq in defeat, with our tails between our legs.

On this day, weakness and stupidity have triumphed.

Posted by Dave D.">Dave D.  2006-08-09 06:18||   2006-08-09 06:18|| Front Page Top

#5 "But it's a great day, a triumphant day, for Islamic terrorists"

Connecticut has its Zapatero moment.
Posted by no mo uro 2006-08-09 06:25||   2006-08-09 06:25|| Front Page Top

#6 10% of the population never had the balls to fight. They rely on their betters to protect them while they scream and fling feces. Those are who voted for Lamont in the Democratic primary. I predict Lamont will lose the general election, even in a bloodless, pussified state like Connecticut where the Republican candidate could be the idiot bastard of John Kerry.
Posted by ed 2006-08-09 08:27||   2006-08-09 08:27|| Front Page Top

#7 twobyfour, great comment. Nailed a number of issues.
Posted by phil_b">phil_b  2006-08-09 08:42|| http://autonomousoperation.blogspot.com/]">[http://autonomousoperation.blogspot.com/]  2006-08-09 08:42|| Front Page Top

#8 points

1. Teddy Roosevelt was no libertarian. Id be interested in a TR Republican. McCain looks more like that than any libertarians.

2. Jackson (Scoop) was no libertarian either. He was a friend of the Labor movement. I resent that Lieberman was beaten by a billionaire, with the support of Conn coast snobs, but that hardly means Id be comfortable in a party that still despises organized labor.

3. Mr Loys article misses two things. A. Joe isnt finished - hes running as an independent Democrat, and may yet win. B. Theres one bane he doesnt mention - Hilary. She may not be as gentle as Joe, but despite that, or because of that, shes still Kos' worst nightmare.

4. For now, put me down as an independent leaning Democrat. Whether that will change to Democrat leaning independent will depend on the events of the next 2 years.
Posted by liberalhawk 2006-08-09 09:24||   2006-08-09 09:24|| Front Page Top

#9 Lieberman is a maniac liberal on every issue. He is a flipflop artist witness his algore fiasco. He does have sanity attacks on national security. This makes him interesting to me but anathema to anti-semites and self-haters in the dhimmicrat party;
Posted by SamAdamsky 2006-08-09 09:37||   2006-08-09 09:37|| Front Page Top

#10 "They want to be Social Democrats, but Social Democrats are (Second International) Marxists. Marx is still, despite 60 or 70 years of effort on the part of the educational establishment, held in low regard in this country. That Marxist undercurrent has become more evident with the rise of the McGovern kiddies and grandkiddies. We're the world's leading exemplar of capitalism, and they're the anticapitalist counterstream. Anticapitalism translates into anti-Americanism. That's why the abhorrence for flag displays and other patriotic symbolism. Beneath the surface of Social Democracy there's the idea of the managed state, which isn't the ideal of individual liberty and personal accomplishment"


Youve got the ass backwards. The Social Democrat - Labor movement wing of the Dem party is the Truman-Humphrey-Scoop Jackson wing. I know, I was there, when the Coalition for a Democratic Majority was formed, and we had BOTH the Podhoretzs and other future Reaganites AND members of YPSL (the Young Peoples Socialist League) and SDUSA (Social Democrats USA). The McGovernites despised the AFL CIO, and not all of them did so just for reasons of foriegn policy. Read the McGovernite leaning Guide to American Politics of those years - its bitter at Nixon, but more so at labor type Dems, its heros are clean, middle class WASPY types from Iowa. Thats where Michael Barone came from, by the way (The almanace - i have no idea if hes from Iowa)

What youre missing is the division within the American left (and the European left too, btw) between anti-communist social democrats (generally, but not always, non-Marxist) and fellow traveler/progressive/democratic socialist types who were sympathetic to communism - some were Marxist/socialist but some were bourgeoie more interested in pacifism/atheism with little real interest in the material advancement of the working class. The class split was 1948, the Truman wing vs the Henry Wallace wing. Now the McGovern movement took BOTH the non-working class elements from the Wallace wing, the more left unions (like the west coast longshore, the drug and hospital workers, and some others) and combine that (in uneasy coalition) with bourgeois "progressive" students, berkeley types, etc who had at best a superficial interest in Marxism, and no interest in the labor movement or working class politics.

That coalion does seem to be back.

But its not the only uneasy coalition. The Podhoretzs and many of the Scoop Jackson Dems became Reaganites, and neocons, as is well known. But they are still, I think, profoundly uneasy in the GOP, and the GOP of George Will and William Buckley is profoundly uneasy with them. The GOP liked them cause they won elections, as paleocons couldnt. With an electoral defeat staring them in the face, they will have problems. They have themselves split into the harder line folks at National Review, and the mainstream neocons at Weekly Standard. The latter are behind McCain, who makes many old line Republicans nervous. We shall see how they do.

The new Democrat movement was an odd combination of Humphrey type Social Democrats (those who never became neocons) and Southern democrats who were never all that pro-Labor, including some newly pragmatic former McGovernites, like the Clintons. Just as "nation-building" splits the GOP, free trade tends to split the new Democrats (the Clintonian wing for it, the old labor types - perhaps best represented recently by Gephardt - are against it) The new democrats captured the Dems by winning - the lossed of the last few years have weakened them.

These are difficult issues, but to analyze them properly one needs to start with a well grounded historical analysis. Not all welfare state advocates were social democrats (see Lloyd George) not all Social Democrats, even in the era of the 2nd international, were Marxists (see Fabians, etc) And even the descendents of the 2nd international have divided in many complex ways, which dont map well to the current debate over american foreign policy. REAL social democrats, were able to see how Communist societies crushed free labor unions. Real Social democrats can see how socially reactionary Islamofascism is. Real Social Democrats can see that China has emerged as a Dickensian capitalist hell.

A good example of a third wayer with genuine Real Social Democrat roots is Tony Blair.

Posted by liberalhawk 2006-08-09 09:48||   2006-08-09 09:48|| Front Page Top

#11 Just face it. The Dems are well and truely screwed.
Posted by DarthVader 2006-08-09 09:58||   2006-08-09 09:58|| Front Page Top

#12 There is no third way. It's a myth. There is capitalism and there is socialism. One can argue about the merits and relative importance of each, but to say there is another alternative is Unicorn sighting.
Posted by phil_b">phil_b  2006-08-09 10:06|| http://autonomousoperation.blogspot.com/]">[http://autonomousoperation.blogspot.com/]  2006-08-09 10:06|| Front Page Top

#13 Show Trials and Party Purges.

Are we there yet?

Pass the popcorn and drink.
Posted by Whater Thrineper8264 2006-08-09 10:07||   2006-08-09 10:07|| Front Page Top

#14 In politics, unicorns can win elections.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-08-09 10:11||   2006-08-09 10:11|| Front Page Top

#15 "Just face it. The Dems are well and truely screwed."

Either they are, or we all are.

Posted by Ulavique Crutle3559 2006-08-09 10:41||   2006-08-09 10:41|| Front Page Top

#16 Uhh?? LH you OK?

Posted by TomAnon 2006-08-09 13:29||   2006-08-09 13:29|| Front Page Top

#17 If Leberman wins the election it will be good for the country as it will show that even when presented with the full-left wing agenda American voters said no. Then Lamont will take the heat for being a billionare who bought an election.
Posted by rjschwarz 2006-08-09 13:56||   2006-08-09 13:56|| Front Page Top

#18 Methinks that LH is experiencing a little cognitive dissonance. Be gentle.
Posted by 11A5S 2006-08-09 14:18||   2006-08-09 14:18|| Front Page Top

#19 "A good example of a third wayer with genuine Real Social Democrat roots is Tony Blair."

NONSENSE with a capital N.
Posted by Bright Pebbles 2006-08-09 14:23||   2006-08-09 14:23|| Front Page Top

#20 Capitalism is voluntary collectivism.

Socialism is coerced collectivism.

Libertarians want to minimise the coercion and exortion.
Posted by Bright Pebbles 2006-08-09 14:25||   2006-08-09 14:25|| Front Page Top

#21 cognitive dissonance

Look, im unhappy with last nights result sure, and it may well lead me one step further away from my lifelong allegiance to my party, and thats NOT a happy thought - like when you start to think that counseling WONT help your marriage, and you need to talk to a lawyer.

But thats quite apart from my views on the history of socialism, social democracy, welfare statism etc. The comments i responded to were just ignorant, and flew against both my historical knowledge and my personal experience, and that is something up with which I will not put.
Posted by liberalhawk 2006-08-09 15:25||   2006-08-09 15:25|| Front Page Top

#22  something up with which I will not put.

You've just got to respect a man who will use that phrase with a straight[-ish] face!
Posted by trailing wife 2006-08-09 15:44||   2006-08-09 15:44|| Front Page Top

#23 Heh. Michael Moore is feeling his oats after last night's Lieberman loss, and he's got words for poor, helpless Hillary:
"To Hillary, our first best hope for a woman to become president, I cannot for the life of me figure out why you continue to support Bush and his war. I'm sure someone has advised you that a woman can't be elected unless she proves she can kick ass just as crazy as any man. I'm here to tell you that you will never make it through the Democratic primaries unless you start now by strongly opposing the war. It is your only hope. You and Joe have been Bush's biggest Democratic supporters of the war. Last night's voter revolt took place just a few miles from your home in Chappaqua. Did you hear the noise? Can you read the writing on the wall?"
Welcome to your new masters, Hillary... LOL!

Posted by Dave D. 2006-08-09 15:47||   2006-08-09 15:47|| Front Page Top

#24 Moore is a certified Putz.
Posted by J. D. Lux 2006-08-09 15:57||   2006-08-09 15:57|| Front Page Top

#25 My reading on the Social Democrats is similar to that of LH.

Love the connection between marital counseling, divorce and your present conflict with your party ;-)
Posted by Steve White">Steve White  2006-08-09 17:21||   2006-08-09 17:21|| Front Page Top

#26 As someone who is fed up with both parties (I've never been a registered Democrat OR Republican, and won't change any time soon), this nation has lost its political underpinning and needs to make some significant changes. The Looney Left is taking one party to the dung heap. The spendthrift Republicans are undermining their party to the point of collapse. Both parties need to grow up and stop acting like two-year-olds. Unfortunately, I don't see much hope for that. I'm beginning to think my only option is to buy 40 acres in the mountains and a couple of truck-loads of ammunition.
Posted by Old Patriot">Old Patriot  2006-08-09 22:57|| http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]">[http://oldpatriot.blogspot.com/]  2006-08-09 22:57|| Front Page Top

#27 LH's cringing in pain - his entire worldview as an accepted member of the Donk party was rejected. Give him a couple days to recover
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2006-08-09 23:08||   2006-08-09 23:08|| Front Page Top

#28 #23 Dave - Moore publicly threatens the Hildebeast?

He'd better stay out of parks at night and triple his bodyguards.

Just sayin', 's all....
Posted by Barbara Skolaut">Barbara Skolaut  2006-08-09 23:11|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com]  2006-08-09 23:11|| Front Page Top

23:42 bk
23:39 Snease Shaiting3550
23:33 Frank G
23:33 Old Patriot
23:32 Frank G
23:32 Snease Shaiting3550
23:29 J. D. Lux
23:23 Claviling Sholuth9192
23:23 Snease Shaiting3550
23:15 FOTSGreg
23:12 Claviling Sholuth9192
23:11 Frank G
23:11 Barbara Skolaut
23:10 FOTSGreg
23:10 Frank G
23:09 Snease Shaiting3550
23:09 Claviling Sholuth9192
23:08 Frank G
23:03 Claviling Sholuth9192
23:02 49 Pan
23:00 Glenmore
22:59 Frank G
22:58 Claviling Sholuth9192
22:57 Old Patriot









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