Article

2007-07-19 Iraq

Insurgents form political front to plan for US pullout

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Posted by Steve White 2007-07-19 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11 views ] Top
File under: Iraqi Insurgency

#1 I wonder if Nancy got an office tour during her Damascus boondoggle.

Posted by Super Hose 2007-07-19 00:45|| 2007-07-19 00:45|| Front Page Top

#2 I don't know, maybe I just don't get it - but to me, this is just so silly on so many levels that only an Al Guardian reporter could see the "logic" in this.

Let me see if I get this straight: Pure Iraqi Sunni insurgents (no Baathists, no Al Qaeda) intend to all hold hands, sing a little Kumbaya and form a public political alliance with the aim of preparing for negotiations in Advance of an American withdrawl, to plan for... putting themselves in charge.

Sooo - they agreed the main planks of a joint political programme, including a commitment to free Iraq from foreign troops, rejection of cooperation with parties involved in political institutions set up under the occupation and a declaration that decisions and agreements made by the US occupation and Iraqi government are null and void.

sooo ...Do they think that the MAJORITY Shia, Sunni and Independent minded Kurds, currently in power are going to say, yeah, that's cool dudes. You oppressed us for years, but we'd be happy to hand over the reigns so you can set up a temporary technocratic government, with a promise of free elections. After all, making sure you Sunnis are back in power is the numero uno reason why we will be willing to ~~slaughter you and your families~~ negotiate these terms with you. Yep, yep, we MAJORITY Shia and Kurds are so anxious to have you back in power that we can't wait to get rid of the American occupiers so we ~~can slaughter each and every one of you Sunnis without American interference~~ can restore you to your rightful place as our Sunni overlords.

hmmm. Well I guess it all makes sense to the Guardian. After all, if these pure as the driven snow Sunni insurgent groups, who have been killing their countrymen for decades, are for the end of the occupation, who could be against that? Right?

Posted by AT 2007-07-19 00:58|| 2007-07-19 00:58|| Front Page Top

#3 For the last month, that old phrase, "no taxation without representation" keeps coming to my mind.

It's really about, if I were an Iraqi, at the age I am (let's just put it into the early 6 decades) would I even understand what "representation" means?

And I certainly wouldn't trust anyone offering me anything other than what I currently knew. After all, I have learned to live and raise my family, suffering the repression of Saddam.

So what could have been done differently for the Iraqi's to bring them to understand this concept of representation? What of Bush's "done wrongs" should not have been done?

I think, not much. The Iraqis first have had to individually decide, who can I trust. It takes time to establish trust. They had to try out all the options they had. Some of those options included the same old same old of Saddams's regime, and some included worse experiences than they had already endured.

Trust first must be established, then, we can deal with the question of "no representation" and forget that "no taxation" stuff till we understand "representation."

Iraqi's are quickly beginning to make visible to us Americans, that that young man that is waving to those kids, taking their pictures, after all these years, really is that young man, who just wants to take pictures of my kids! And protect me, so I can understand representation in some form, and he can go home.

Our young Captains and Majors are serving not only as mayors of villages, but teaching this concept of "no taxation without representation."

And there is a long road ahead to understanding the representation thing.

A true nanny state Iraqi has been..... even to the vaccine the shepherds need to keep their herds healthy, came from Saddam. The shepherds must learn now, how is it that they now get that vaccine to keep their herds healthy? They know they need it, just how to get it is a learning experience.

In past education jargon, we called it, "learning by discovery." I think I'm beginning to understand our young military corp, that long have been telling us, the good they feel they are doing..... what they have known all along, they are giving to these people. That they don't want to come home, till their mission is finish. About how good they feel about what they are doing. Opening schools, hospitals, clearing up the sewage. Yea, they're seeing some ugly stuff, but, they know, they are making a difference. Marines letting the smuggling of sheep over the border to Syria happen, cause they know, they are there to protect these folks, so they can raise their sheep. They stand guard, in their warrior armour, so the sheep buying can happen.

I'm finding lately, my thoughts are very much as they were in my second decade --- this can't be happening..... how can this be happening?

I remember the day I saw that footage of those helicopters leaving our embassy in Saigon..... and I can't believe, I'm about to see it again.

The day I buried I husband, upon walking into my house, the local ladies keeping watch throughout the day, had the TV on. George Bush 41 had just come on. As I stopped to listen, he was announcing, the bombing of Iraqi. My late Marine husband had said, in November, "we've got to take that guy out." He also had talked about, what it might be like, to be an Iraqi and what life would be after we took Saddam out. He talked of the trust that the Iraqi people would have to find. He had been one of those "silent" Marines that had been to the shores of Vietnam, before we ever heard of Vietnam. I often wish, his/my generation that is now power, had learned what he had learned, could now see the world through his eyes.....

That was in late 1990... He had it right then.... he gave them five years.... before they would begin to find their way....

I only wish I knew the secret to knowing what to do, to keep from seeing those helicopters flying out of the Green Zone. I only wish, we give the Iraqi times to find their way.... this really should be a Democrat's dreams...... to totally manage a nanny state..... and if it had been anyone other than George Bush where he is...... why, they could have swooped in with all their nanny state protections... and been the heros of the worlds. Replacing the Saddam method of governing, providing the sheep vaccine, without Saddam's genocide of the people. But then, they do know that our leaving before it is time, the NYTimes tells us, genocide will occur.

I take it then, when the question is put to the Democrats, "what is your plan?" It is to provide in the nanny state style, the government gives to all, including the sheep vaccine until the the UN puts in peacekeepers, to abate the killings, the genocide that happens between the Saudi Sunnis and the Iranian Shites.... and then the peacekeepers come to continue the rape of the wives and the daughters.

My small town of Bauxite, Arkansas came into existence in WWII, providing all the bauxite ore and processing that ore into the fine white powder that became the aluminum that became all those planes that flew both the European and Japanese fronts. It's gone now.... except for a small community, our schools and our heritage of the values that raised us.

Will I, in the last part of my lifetime, see other towns come into existence to support some industry that is needed to fight this ideology of death, with the intentions of killing us, we now face? I think so..... I'm expecting it sooner, rather than later. I just wish it wouldn't take my once again watching thousands and probably even millions of us dying.......

If you made it this far in your reading... thanks for indulging this litl'e ole lady...... These words had long been in my typing on lots of occasions, to be deleted..... but, tonight I post them....

And say thank you... to this incredible generation of my young, next door neighbor young Marine who used to mow my grass, knowing just what they are doing, how they are doing it..... under such incredible pressure from their "leadership" knowing he and his friends smile and say, "just doing my job, mam'm."

Posted by Sherry">Sherry 2007-07-19 03:09|| 2007-07-19 03:09|| Front Page Top

#4 Sherry, thanks for a great post! I pray to God we won't see those helicopters. There is no excuse this time around. None whatsoever.

I don't know. Despite the fact that the Liberals have been working feverously overtime to assure that an Iraq defeat is snatched from the jaws of victory - I just think that it is all starting to fall apart for them in an out of control downward spiral . Maybe it is wishful thinking on my part, but it seems to me that that what we are seeing in the subversive and lemming liberals is a death rattle. Overnight Sleep overs as a publicity stunt when you know you will lose? The impotence of Harry Reid's move was staggering.

No matter how hard the papers and the pollsters and the wires and the networks and the Hollywood minions try to spin it - they've lost their grip and no amount of PR is going to help them get it back. Time is not on the jihadist or lemming liberal side. Each day in our world brings new atrocities that expose these folks for what they are - fools and/or fiends. I don't underestimate them - but it seems to me that their current grand actions are nothing more than the flailings of a drowning man.

Posted by AT 2007-07-19 03:57|| 2007-07-19 03:57|| Front Page Top

#5 The real point to keep in mind about all of this is that the Democrats CANNOT force the US out of Iraq, UNLESS President Bush signs off on it. The Constitution clearly reserves the power of Commander-in-Chief to the President, and gives Congress the power to defund a war they disagree with. The Democrats have made perfectly clear that they will NOT defund the war, and unless they can come up with a 2/3 majority in both the House and the Senate, they cannot pass legislation mandating a withdrawal due to the Presidential veto.

All the Democrats have been doing is a twisted little kabuki for their nut squads, the hardcore lefties and defeatists that make up so much of their primary voters. This temper tantrum display of an all nighter in the Senate that had NO chance of success from the first moment is a prime example of that.
President Bush has made it clear that he will NOT withdraw from Iraq, and so come January 2009, the new President of whichever party will be the one who decides if we stay or if we flee. And by that time, the Surge and the subsequent cleanup operations will have reduced the terrorists enough for the Iraqis to handle themselves. Even then, we, meaning the US, will be in Iraq for another couple of decades at least. Flipping Bosnia was supposed to be a 9 month operation, and we still have people there.

Posted by Shieldwolf 2007-07-19 04:47|| 2007-07-19 04:47|| Front Page Top

#6 Hope you're right on the defunding, Shieldwolf. But I'm in a blue state and I'm wondering if doing so wouldn't get them elected.

Posted by lotp 2007-07-19 05:37|| 2007-07-19 05:37|| Front Page Top

#7 Re: Sherry's comments, I remember reading that in 2003 when we went into Iraq, over 75% of all Iraqis had spent their entire lives under Saddam's dictatorship.

It's like those who lived under the Soviets - an entire culture gets degraded and warped, it's worse characteristics get more entrenched and honor, trust and decency get stamped out.

Posted by lotp 2007-07-19 05:42|| 2007-07-19 05:42|| Front Page Top

#8 The insurgent groups deny support from any foreign government, including Syria, but claim they have been offered and rejected funding and arms from Iran.

Good enough reason to attack Iran?????

Posted by Paul 2007-07-19 06:34|| 2007-07-19 06:34|| Front Page Top

#9 I thought the insurgents already had a political front. Can't remember the name, but I think the initials were "DNC" or some such.

Posted by Mike 2007-07-19 07:04|| 2007-07-19 07:04|| Front Page Top

#10 But I'm in a blue state and I'm wondering if doing so wouldn't get them elected.

The one thing they do well is read the polls. If it would help them get elected, they'd do it. But they know it wouldn't. They had to get rightish candidates to take back control of the house. If they force it they lose. If they keep toying with it, they have a great fund raising and election issue.

Posted by Nimble Spemble 2007-07-19 07:15|| 2007-07-19 07:15|| Front Page Top

#11 I hear you, NS.

But Richardson's new ad and move up the rankings concerns me given that it is based on just that.

Posted by lotp 2007-07-19 07:25|| 2007-07-19 07:25|| Front Page Top

#12 They stand guard, in their warrior armour, so the sheep buying can happen.

I'm crying, here. Thank you, Sherry.

Posted by Seafarious">Seafarious 2007-07-19 07:36|| 2007-07-19 07:36|| Front Page Top

#13 Very well written, Sherry dear. Moses led the Israelites round and round the desert for 40 years until the generation born in freedom was ready to take over. At least in Iraq some of the old people remember being free -- that'll give them a head start. And the training the Iraqis are receiving at the hands of our troops, as you describe, will accelerate the process.

Posted by trailing wife 2007-07-19 08:22|| 2007-07-19 08:22|| Front Page Top

#14 Lets hope they'll quarrel over division of (future) spoils and do some reciprocal winnowing.

Posted by gromgoru 2007-07-19 09:29|| 2007-07-19 09:29|| Front Page Top

#15 Unless there is a Democrat inaugurated in 2009, this article is an Islamofascist wet dream.

Posted by RWV 2007-07-19 10:35|| 2007-07-19 10:35|| Front Page Top

#16 even IF a democrat is elected in 2009 this is still a Sunni fantasy. The idea presented in this article, that they will shake a few hands, promise to be pure from foreign influence and have future elections, is ridiculous on it's face and could only be considered viable by someone who is deluded, like this Guardian reporter.

The Iraqi Sunnis are a small minority, with a very big ego, who are bitterly hated by the majority of Iraqis. The idead that these "Seven most important Sunni-led insurgent groups" only need to pitch the idea (outlined in this article) to arrive at their goal (outlined in this article) is ludicrous!

The current powers-that-be will not step aside for this fantasy, which only a Guardian reporter could put to paper with a straight face.

Posted by AT 2007-07-19 11:23|| 2007-07-19 11:23|| Front Page Top

#17 ~~elected~~ inaugurated in 2009

Posted by AT 2007-07-19 11:27|| 2007-07-19 11:27|| Front Page Top

#18 A truly fine post, Sherry. Thank you so much for the personal insight and genuine feelings expressed in it. Despite what Oscar Wilde said about how: "The only things worth learning can't be taught", I still find that living history often teaches some of the most valuable lessons of all.

they planned to hold a congress to launch a united front and appealed to Arab governments

Great idea, guyz. Bunch up and smile for the ~~camera~~ target illuminator.

Posted by Zenster">Zenster 2007-07-19 12:33|| 2007-07-19 12:33|| Front Page Top

#19 These fellers might want to check back home. Some of their former friends are now on our side. The 1920's, for example, have lost a lot of guys coming over to fight beside us against AQ, then they stay on as the local police element, with our muscle to back them up.

Posted by OldSpook 2007-07-19 13:11|| 2007-07-19 13:11|| Front Page Top

#20 Maybe they have a Harry Reid type in thier group, God willing.

Posted by plainslow 2007-07-19 13:23|| 2007-07-19 13:23|| Front Page Top

#21 Sherry, thanks for a great post! I pray to God we won't see those helicopters. There is no excuse this time around. None whatsoever.

Thanks, Sherry for your post. This truly sums up the ENTIRE point! Many of us "young whipper-snappers" are truly paying attention to this nation of ours. We've had our Pearl Harbor, and are working hard to inform the public of the horrors that Islam itself holds. We are a small minority, but determined to NEVER let it happen again. And, with the newer technologies of the internet, talk radio, etc., we now get our news from other sources. I was born in 1973, yet I truly understand the EFFECT those helicopters in Saigon held! We KNOW what will come next, and heck, even most Donks admit what will happen next.

Therefore, to KNOWINGLY do it anyways (pull out) is itself a "War Crime." I would hope that the Congresscritters know that we the people will NOT allow Saigon (and thus, Cambodia) to happen again! I can't but help wonder what portion of that 60% of the nation "who feel our country is headed in the wrong direction" actually mean that they want Bush to be TOUGHER! We've seen what fighting to a cease-fire (instead of a complete surrender) can do. We're still in Germany, Japan, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan, the Caucasus, etc. BECAUSE (well, with the exception of Germany and Japan) we don't fight to win, anymore! I understand this, and I promise you "older generation" I will do my d@mndest to never let it happen again!

Posted by BA 2007-07-19 13:23|| 2007-07-19 13:23|| Front Page Top

#22 Well said - BA. The media is not going to do this, so internet and TV radio need to start reminding everyone about the Saigon Slaughter and ask those who really aren't paying all that much attention, if they are OK with allowing it to happen again, especially in a country that is willing and able to work towards establishing a functioning "democratic" government.

Certainly thousands of pictures exist of the mounds of skulls, the desperate boat people and the mass graves full of women, children and infants. There are MILLIONS!!!! of stories from people alive today of the suffering and desperation they endured from the our betrayl. These people need to stand up (and more importantly) AND BE HEARD!

We need to have the majority of the American people (ie: the ones who are NOT committed lefty loons or subversive snakes)and understand what a troop withdrawl means and ask them, "Are you OK with this happening again?"

Look - most people don't keep up with this stuff. They watch a snippets on the news and believe the endless, never ceasing hype that "Americans are tired of the war and should go home". We need to reach these people with the magnitude of what will happen and ask them, "Are you ok with that?" I believe that once this uninfomed majority grasp what they are condoning they will stand up and say, "NO!".

Posted by AT 2007-07-19 13:58|| 2007-07-19 13:58|| Front Page Top

#23 Agreed, AT! To do this KNOWING the consequences (heck, even the NYSlimes admits that an all out slaughter would occur if we left now) is farkin' criminal in my mind.

We just smacked down the Congress (and the President) over the Amnesty bill HARD! Make them hear from "We the People" again. This is what p!sses me right off about all the polling lately....it's all "The President's at his lowest approval rating ever", yet they (conveniently) fail to mention that he's still twice as popular (in their own poll) than the Democratically-controlled Congress! And, the "negative" end of the poll includes those who think the Prez is doing a "fair" job. If any of these yahoos succeed in pulling us out (especially before letting the surge truly take effect) early, I humbly implore all of my fellow 'burgians to help bring them to justice and charge them with war crimes.

Posted by BA 2007-07-19 14:28|| 2007-07-19 14:28|| Front Page Top

#24 To do this KNOWING the consequences is farkin' criminal. It is hard to fathom anyone supporting this.

I heard Zogby and another pollster making the rounds of talk radio yesterday trying to spin the historically low Congressional polls as the result of Katrina. I kid you not! Yeah, right, TWO FREAKING YEARS LATER, these low polls are a DIRECT relation to Katrina. It would be laughable if so many did not suck it right through their straw.

Yeah, right. We aren't ALL disgusted with their corruption and lack of ability to work in our interests - we are disenchanted with the way GW handled Katrina that is the source of our discontent. unfricking real.

Posted by AT 2007-07-19 14:49|| 2007-07-19 14:49|| Front Page Top

#25 oops - I was unclear. I meant it is hard to fathom anyone with an ounce of humanity supporting another Saigon slaughter.

I think I'm going make myself a bumper sticker with a little red NO Saigon symbol, that says, "WITHDRAWL = GENOCIDE, SUPPORT OUR TROOPS IN IRAQ

Posted by AT 2007-07-19 14:54|| 2007-07-19 14:54|| Front Page Top

#26 Sherry, it's too bad we have so few in Congress who come anywhere close to understanding what you've written. I for one am grateful for men like your husband who hear the call to serve not only their country but people they don't even know in a country like Iraq and especially when it seems like the leadership often undermines their efforts. I think I understand how they love their country enough to carry on anyway and it makes me even more grateful because it would be all too easy to walk away in disgust. I don't understand it all but posts like yours help.

Posted by Ebbang Uluque6305 2007-07-19 15:08|| 2007-07-19 15:08|| Front Page Top

#27 Any truth to the rumor they'll be calling themselves the Democrat Pary in Iraq?

Posted by doc 2007-07-19 17:58|| 2007-07-19 17:58|| Front Page Top

#28 You'll have been most kind and gracious in words for me. And let me first say, I'm on the very early, early side of this sixth decade! And I thank you for listening to my Rant...

BA -- I especially want to thank you.... because of your age and the attitude you have. I think AT may be right in there with you, but you really touched me with your promise of "I will do my d@mndest to never let it happen again! "

I think this is a discussion, we at Ranburg U never have had. It's your generation, your peers, that are fighting this war. Oh, we know where our warriors stand, but we rarely hear, or know that we are hearing, from their peers who aren't on the actual front lines. And it's great to hear your promise.

My woman's intuitive tells me, that most of your peer group probably will make that promise with you. So it's great, when we hear it.

On 9-11, I was off. I happened to walked to the computer, check my then, favorite site for dialogue, and it was posted about the first plane hitting the Twin Towers. I immediately turned on the TV, and for the rest of day, did what all Americans were doing, I stood, not sitting, I couldn't, in front of the TV.

At that time, I worked with about a dozen young ladies that are just a few years younger than you. All day, I pondered, "what is their reaction?" I knew we were going to war. Being in Texas, I've been a Bush observer for a long time. He would take us to war. And I heard my husband say, "we got to take this guy out." Norman was finally going to get his war that he thought would happen, in 1991.

I was so hesitate to go into work the day after. How are they going to react? Most of them were in their last year of college, making great plans for their bright futures, and I was scared for them. Scared that maybe, this wouldn't mean anything to them. I was mobbed! They grabbed me, I think each one hugging me at the same time, crying, until one took my arm, dragging me forward, stating, "we need to talk."

They got me through the next few days. They were like you, "I will do my d@mndest to never let it happen again! " Several had boyfriends in the National Guard. "Will he go tomorrow?"

But it was all brought home to me, when several days later, during one of our "talks," one of them said, "You have to understand, we don't know war. We have never seen war. But, this is our war, and we will fight it."

They mostly all graduated the next spring. I've not seen or visited with them since then. And when I read your words, I thought, "Yes, they are fighting this war. They now know what war is..... and your words brought me to that scene of watching those young Marines, in their battle rattle, standing guard, the day that the shepherds took their sheep to market, doing their d@mndest to never let it happen again!

I'll close with this from Gen Patraeus, as he closed an interview with Hugh Hewitt, "I think I mentioned to you before that when Tom Brokaw was out here with us one time, he said that surely this has to be the new greatest generation. And I very, very much agree with that. And as I mentioned earlier, I feel very privileged to be able to soldier with these great young men and women here in Iraq again."

You gave me back a confidence, that was beginning to kinda go south after that embarrassing exhibition that our Senate (my generation) put on for the entire world to observe, which was what sparked this Rant of mine.

I'm seldom around your generation much these days. Thank you for your words. And I know, this time, it won't be 50 years for some Tom Brokaw to grant you the title, "Greatest Generation." We already know you are.

Posted by Sherry">Sherry 2007-07-19 20:53|| 2007-07-19 20:53|| Front Page Top

#29 WOW! Thank you for your kind words, Sherry. Listen, it's not posted much, but I do hold out hope for my generation.

Sure, we're caught up in the hectic, microwave, fast food, "have it your way" type world we ALL live in. I'm as guilty of that as the next guy/gal. BUT, 9/11 DID happen. NONE of us will forget that day. I can't tell you how many folks my age REALLY feel the way we do, but because we've grown up in a PC world, we're not ALLOWED to say it.

But, that is changing. The blogs, the talk radio, Fox News, Hannity, Neal Boortz, the talkmeister, ALL of these are forming the "perfect storm" to right the wrongs our nation has experienced since the 60's "cultural revolution." According to stats, teen pregnancy is down (in large part b/c of the 1990's welfare reforms, thanks, Newt!), abortions in the very young brackets (18-mid 20's) is waaaay down, more and more women my age and even younger, are staying home when they have children, etc.

I almost live now in a group of married couples my age that is more like the 1950s. ALL of the wives stay home with the kids. We all attend church together, pray together, share with each other and live life. Sure, we still get caught up in this "I want it NOW" society, but for the most part, we see what life REALLY is about.

And, I think the younger generation is questioning that too. A lot of them are searching to find what it means to be American. Many of the generation just behind me "question authority," but when that authority is a nanny state, that can be a good thing. Many are searching for spiritual answers, and are finding them in the Church. Many have asked (and are still asking) WHY (about 9/11)? I've gotta believe that with this search will come REAL answers that'll give us the steel backbone our forefathers had to look evil in the eye and kick its @ss.

I'm trying to do my little part. I have coffee every morning with a group of Vietnam era vets and other Conservatives. And, we work in a very liberal Federal gov't agency, yet there we are at 6:30 in the morning solving the world's problems in 15-20 minutes. I've turned them on to Rantburg and they love it. And, as you point out, this is an all-volunteer military now, so i KNOW that there are still patriots out there than want to fight for this nation. I actually believe we are the majority, it's just the yahoos in Washington (w/ the help of the MSM) that lead the world to believe we're weak.

Posted by BA 2007-07-19 21:52|| 2007-07-19 21:52|| Front Page Top

#30 more and more women my age and even younger, are staying home when they have children, etc.

That's not to insinuate that I'm a woman (I'm not). Although my wife accuses me of being one because I cry on July 4th at the Star Spangled Banner.

Posted by BA 2007-07-19 21:54|| 2007-07-19 21:54|| Front Page Top

23:41 WTF
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