Article

2010-07-24 Economy

T. Boone Pickens Just Dropkicked The American Wind Industry

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Posted by 3dc 2010-07-24 00:45|| || Front Page|| [11130 views ] Top

#1 CNG is the fuel for our future. wind could never do the job.

Posted by 49 Pan 2010-07-24 01:43|| 2010-07-24 01:43|| Front Page Top

#2 About time someone did that. Facts are difficult things. Things like variability versus baseload, demand burst capability, transmission loss due to remote locations...

Posted by OldSpook 2010-07-24 03:48|| 2010-07-24 03:48|| Front Page Top

#3 Clearly Pickens no longer feels the need to play footsie with the GW camp, a sign of its declining influence.

Were wind a viable energy source then Pickens proposal was a good one - build the windmills along the high tension corridors.

Posted by phil_b 2010-07-24 04:05|| 2010-07-24 04:05|| Front Page Top

#4 Mr. Pickens, when did you stop hitting ~~your wife~~ American taxpayers and energy users?

Posted by M. Murcek 2010-07-24 09:27|| 2010-07-24 09:27|| Front Page Top

#5 Wind can work as a subset of other energy plans in specific areas but could never work at the scale Pickens suggested. There is no one size-fits-all solution except perhaps nuclear so we better get used to trying lots of things wherever they work or bulding a lot of nuclear plants.

Posted by rjschwarz 2010-07-24 10:02|| 2010-07-24 10:02|| Front Page Top

#6 No doubt that the money angle is important, this is T. Boone Pickens we're hearing. But at least its an honest element and he is open about it.

Posted by OldSpook 2010-07-24 10:04|| 2010-07-24 10:04|| Front Page Top

#7 Kind of hard not to accept this at some level; just as wind energy is getting wound up, more and more groups are fighting the siting of the turbines for many reasons. and at least out here in WA, the gov agreed to downsize a permit to about half of what had been previously agreed to. sites that have the potential for a more or less steady output are increasingly beeing taken off the table; can't say as i blame the man.

Posted by USN, Ret. 2010-07-24 11:12|| 2010-07-24 11:12|| Front Page Top

#8 Natgas as a widely used "bridge fuel" ain't gonna happen, folks...even Jim Cramer from CNBC has largely given up on it, believing that our natgas resources will mostly be exported. The communists and radical greenies (apologize for the redundancy) setting Ogabe's energy policies see it as yet another eeeevil fossil fuel, the development and use of which must be stopped. And I have to wonder if Saudi money's calling this tune as well...

Posted by Ricky bin Ricardo (Abu Babaloo) 2010-07-24 12:56|| 2010-07-24 12:56|| Front Page Top

#9 The biggest issue for renewable energy sources, such as wind and solar, is energy storage. It is hard to store energy in a density as high as petroleum fuel.

Our so called leaders do not understand the basics of energy generation, transmission, storage, and distribution, so how can they make decisions.

The warnings were there for all to see in 73 and 74 after the oil embargo. Some industries and people saw the message. The leaders were too stupid or complacent to act. Also look at our presidents since them. One way or another, they were tied to Saudi and other states. Even now, how can we make the necessary changes to our energy policy when we still play footsie with the likes of upstanding people like the Saudis, Libyans, et al?

Posted by Alaska Paul in Hooper Bay, Alaska 2010-07-24 14:37|| 2010-07-24 14:37|| Front Page Top

#10 "Our so called leaders do not understand the basics ~~of energy generation, transmission, storage, and distribution,~~ so how can they make decisions."

fixed

Posted by abu do you love 2010-07-24 20:33|| 2010-07-24 20:33|| Front Page Top

#11 Ya got a group whose mission is to locate and build a wind farm. They gotta look at all these variables - average wind, location, land value. They find a place, send out the geologist and survayers to confirm the conditions are acceptable. They then enter into negotiations with the land owners. They have to check with the EPA to make sure the 2-butted beatle does not live there. They have to check with the Native American group to make sure no sites are disturbed and have on site during excavation in case a site is found.

Site is a go. Then...

These things are big, and have to be shipped in 4 pieces at least. So that is 4 trucks, drivers, driving from wherever the start point is into BFE because, like Kennedy said, I don't want that in my backyard! When they get there, it has to be unloaded by a skilled crew. The foundation, 200-300 yards of concrete worth, is poured into the hole another crew dug out. The windmill is assembled and ready to go, but is not wired. Repeat construction x times until all available land is used.

Now ya gotta get them all onto the grid from BFE to. Electrical towers, wire, crews, blah blah blah run out from the nearest best node.

After all that, 1/3 of your units are out because of maintenence or have become giant lightning rods. Gotta order the parts, they come in from whereever, and it has to get 100 feet straight up to be serviced. But thats if your lucky. Unlucky, you are shut down because a wind event ruined all your blades, stupid birds keep flying into your structure, or the warbling grass grouse has decided the newfound shade makes a good nesting area and is also endangered! Yippie!

Any guesses when one would find a Return on Investment, in either the financial or energy-spent since? I mean seriously, how much Diesel and motor oil, tires are used up trucking the windmill, and concrete, and crews, digging equipment to even a site close to civilization...and if the parts come from overseas well then count their transport energy to get it on the freighter. Monetary, forget about it, the winners are the locals who will make money off these ventures until the windmills are pulled and hauled away.

Don't get me wrong, I like power generation like this much more than light sweet, but even if we can get some somewhat functional wind farms going it will be a long time before it pays off. Its not simcity where a button is clicked and poof one pops up. Power grid, no problem click click click. But the people who are selling this, that is their sales pitch.

Posted by swksvolFF 2010-07-24 22:07|| 2010-07-24 22:07|| Front Page Top

23:00 junkiron
22:51 phil_b
22:50 3dc
22:38 3dc
22:12 chris
22:09 Hellfish
22:07 swksvolFF
21:58 Willy
21:44 badanov
21:36 tu3031
21:30 swksvolFF
21:15 3dc
21:13 3dc
21:12 3dc
21:10 3dc
21:08 3dc
21:00 Pappy
20:56 tu3031
20:47 DMFD
20:34 Frank G
20:33 abu do you love
20:26 Anonymoose
20:17 abu do you love
20:13 junkiron