Archived material Access restricted Article
Rantburg

Today's Front Page   View All of Sat 05/06/2006 View Fri 05/05/2006 View Thu 05/04/2006 View Wed 05/03/2006 View Tue 05/02/2006 View Mon 05/01/2006 View Sun 04/30/2006
1
2006-05-06 Britain
Britain To Finish Paying Off Lend-Lease
Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.
Posted by Anonymoose 2006-05-06 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11136 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 This is one bill I *don't* mind paying!

Thanks America!
Posted by Tony (UK) 2006-05-06 02:14||   2006-05-06 02:14|| Front Page Top

#2 Any other nations pay it off?
Posted by 3dc 2006-05-06 03:35||   2006-05-06 03:35|| Front Page Top

#3 This is from Wikipedia:


There remains considerable accounting dispute about the exact sums involved. Historians estimate that payments to the major recipients included about $14 to $20 billion to Britain; $9-10 billion to the Soviet Union; France, $3.5 billion; and China and India, $2.2 billion, for a total of $48 billion.
Posted by Tony (UK) 2006-05-06 05:15||   2006-05-06 05:15|| Front Page Top

#4 You are welcome Tony, and we will be with you when you need us again. This time without the loan ;)
And thanks for the chobham armor!
Posted by DarthVader 2006-05-06 07:55||   2006-05-06 07:55|| Front Page Top

#5 Thanks for the jets, too.

Posted by Carl in N.H.">Carl in N.H.  2006-05-06 08:13||   2006-05-06 08:13|| Front Page Top

#6 Finland paid up long ago. I don't know of anyone else.
Posted by Besoeker 2006-05-06 09:36||   2006-05-06 09:36|| Front Page Top

#7 Well, us frenchies have paid you back with all that warm, solid pro-US tradition radiating from our heartland. Feel the love. Don't you feel better already?
Posted by anonymous5089 2006-05-06 12:12||   2006-05-06 12:12|| Front Page Top

#8 The West Indies would have been a sweet deal, and strategically advantageous. The BVI is great, but Americans would probably ruin it with commercialization. Compare Virgin Gorda and St. Thomas...Britain is showing great integrity and we thank you.
Posted by Danielle 2006-05-06 13:22||   2006-05-06 13:22|| Front Page Top

#9 Thanks for the Cavitron!

One of the more sordid episodes IMO of Anglo-American affairs was the sending of the Indianapolis to Capetown to collect the last of the Empires gold reserves, to ensure the Brits were indeed broke. Bad business.
Posted by 6 2006-05-06 14:20||   2006-05-06 14:20|| Front Page Top

#10 LOL anonymous5089! :)
Posted by the Twelfth Imami 2006-05-06 15:21||   2006-05-06 15:21|| Front Page Top

#11 Well 6,
They were desperate times for Britain, and at the time lend-lease was initiated, the US was still a neutral country.

And of course, the amount of money the US has spent in keeping the free world free since WWII makes the lend-lease program look like peanuts...
Posted by Tony (UK) 2006-05-06 16:39||   2006-05-06 16:39|| Front Page Top

#12 It was mean, 6, exactly because we were neutrals. Very clever of Roosevelt in terms of destroying the British Empire, one of his major war goals in WWII. I wonder what his goals were wrt the Soviet Union. We suffered 50 years of cold war and now this absurd war with Islam because of Roosevelt's desire to destroy all the European empires except Russia's. Once the "Greatest Generation" is off stage there will be a major revison in history's appraisal of FDR.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-05-06 16:50||   2006-05-06 16:50|| Front Page Top

#13 Tony - as far as this American is concerned, y'all have long since paid that "debt."

I wish our government had forgiven the debt years ago. Both our countries have more than their share of moonbats, idiots, and fellow-travellers, but still we're friends.

I love the Brits. I remember in 1976, when we were celebrating the 200th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence, there was a big sign somewhere in London that said, "Happy Birthday, America. Love, Mum."

Y'all are fantastic. I hope we stay friends for the next 200 years, too. :-D
Posted by  Barbara Skolaut"> Barbara Skolaut  2006-05-06 17:14|| http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/page/15bk1/Home_Page.html]">[http://ariellestjohndesigns.com/page/15bk1/Home_Page.html]  2006-05-06 17:14|| Front Page Top

#14 NS: Very clever of Roosevelt in terms of destroying the British Empire, one of his major war goals in WWII. I wonder what his goals were wrt the Soviet Union. We suffered 50 years of cold war and now this absurd war with Islam because of Roosevelt's desire to destroy all the European empires except Russia's. Once the "Greatest Generation" is off stage there will be a major revison in history's appraisal of FDR.

That's correct. I think Roosevelt is quite possibly the worst president in the history of the country for precisely this reason. Carter was terrible, but Roosevelt presided over a time when it was important for him to make the right decisions, and he made all the wrong ones. GI's paid in blood in Korea and Vietnam because of Roosevelt's obsessive stupidity. And that's leaving out the part where Roosevelt was catatonic for weeks after Pearl Harbor. Kind of makes Bush's 9 minute post-9/11 interlude seem like an instant.
Posted by Zhang Fei 2006-05-06 17:15|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com]  2006-05-06 17:15|| Front Page Top

#15 The UK is a staunch ally, inspite of the moonbats which we both have in abundance.

I never really understood Roos motivation or why he so ham handedly helped to dismantle the Brits authority after the war.

The zeitgeist of freedom and independence was sweeping the world anyway and would have come to pass in-spite of Roos meddling, perhaps with a lot less damage.

I'm sure John could shed real light on this subject.

re: the debt fugetaboutit
Posted by RD 2006-05-06 17:40||   2006-05-06 17:40|| Front Page Top

#16 I wasn't thinking so much of Empire and its end so much as how damn cheap it was to snare the last piggy bank. We trusted them for billions why not another few million? It was tacky.
Posted by 6 2006-05-06 18:32||   2006-05-06 18:32|| Front Page Top

#17 tacky indeed. Not a shining hour in Americana
Posted by Frank G">Frank G  2006-05-06 19:40||   2006-05-06 19:40|| Front Page Top

#18 I hate to defend FDR and Harriman, but there were reasons.

Throughout the 19th century, the Brits expected the US to pay back any debts, in gold, to the last farthing. Then, when fortunes turned, after WWI, they could find the money to keep India and Iraq subdued, build their navy to keep ahead of ours, but not to repay their loans. Not to mention that it was really a "voluntary" war that could have been ended in 1916 or 1917 by negotiation.

Actually, I think that was a worse case than WWII. We really should have waived the latter but insisted on repayment of the former. I'm not proud of what we did, but it's also not the worst moment in our foreign relations.

Further, remember that in early 1941, there was still a question whether Brittain would survive. Sure, as long as the RN existed, an invasion would be impossible, but a combined air/U-boat campaign was coming close to success. We may have been looking ahead to a coming conflict with Germany leading a united (through conquest) Europe and needed all the bases and resources we could get.

Finally, one of the primary goals of our foreign policy since 1777 (the treaty with France also had a clause that the US was given MFN status) has been that our ships and goods should be able to travel and sell to everywhere in the world, hence the "Open Door" policy in China, short-lived "wars" against anyone who messes with our shipping, demands that "Imperial Preference" be cancelled, and so on. This is something generations of our statesmen had as a basic goal of foreign policy, almost an instinct. It's only natural that they would continue to press for this.

Also, note that after 1945, the US greatly reduced its tariffs, so it wasn't quite as one-sided as our previous policy of high import tariffs coupled with demands that no one else do the same.

And finally, Britain (and the rest of the world) free-ride on our drug R&D. They all threaten to break our patents if our companies dare to distribute their R&D expenses. That's the reason our costs are so much higher.
Posted by Jackal">Jackal  2006-05-06 20:02|| http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]">[http://home.earthlink.net/~sleepyjackal/index.html]  2006-05-06 20:02|| Front Page Top

#19 All true Jackal, still, it was a cheap shot. We coulda done better.
Posted by 6 2006-05-06 20:18||   2006-05-06 20:18|| Front Page Top

#20 I would appreciate a cite on the default of debt by the Brits.
Posted by Nimble Spemble 2006-05-06 22:08||   2006-05-06 22:08|| Front Page Top

#21 NS, a quick google turned up this at Wikipedia:

To pay for purchases in the US, Britain cashed in its massive investments in American railroads and then began borrowing heavily on Wall Street. President Wilson was on the verge of cutting off the loans in late 1916, but with war imminent with Germany, he allowed a massive increase in U.S. government lending to the Allies. After 1919, the U.S. demanded repayment of these loans, which, in part, were funded by German reparations, which, in turn, were supported by American loans to Germany. This circular system collapsed in 1931 and the loans were never repaid.

My understanding is that because of the defaults earlier, and because the US was just emerging from the Depression when the 2nd world war broke out, Congress insisted on selling war materials on a cash and carry basis originally, with the lend-lease program instituted when it became clear Britain was going bankrupt under the burden of fighting the Nazis.
Posted by lotp 2006-05-06 22:33||   2006-05-06 22:33|| Front Page Top

#22 Point of clairity:

Roos = New Deal apprat at State, CIA[OSS], DOD [WAR, Navy Office], etc.
Posted by RD 2006-05-06 23:57||   2006-05-06 23:57|| Front Page Top

17:31 Besoeker
23:57 RD
23:45 SPoD
23:36 trailing wife
23:29 trailing wife
22:51 49 Pan
22:50 Sneasing Uleash8657
22:40 Classical_Liberal
22:38 SOP35/Rat
22:37 milford421
22:36 Dave D.
22:33 lotp
22:18 Manolo
22:13 imoyaro
22:12 Manolo
22:08 Nimble Spemble
22:02 Frank G
21:49 Nimble Spemble
21:46 Broadhead6
21:46 Nimble Spemble
21:37 Fordesque
21:32 Halliburton ferrets out snark div
21:21 Dave D.
21:16 Cleamble Cravins1399









Paypal:
Google
Search WWW Search rantburg.com