Article

2014-04-26 -Land of the Free

Archived material is restricted to Rantburg regulars and members. If you need access email fred.pruitt=at=gmail.com with your nick to be added to the members list. There is no charge to join Rantburg as a member.

Posted by Besoeker 2014-04-26 00:00|| || Front Page|| [11124 views ] Top

#1 The Left will continue to slander Bundy. They had the news media completely derailed today over Bundy's slave comments. Now they are all talking of him being a bigot and not about the over reaching of the fed and the excessive force used. Reid will survive this and the Chinese will own the Nevada deserts... Our media are world class amateurs, FOX, MSNBC, and CNN are one and the same.

Posted by 49 Pan 2014-04-26 03:58|| 2014-04-26 03:58|| Front Page Top

#2 Our media are world class amateurs, FOX, MSNBC, and CNN are one and the same. Posted by: 49 Pan.

I fully agree, and FOX was by far the largest disappointment. For whatever reason, Bundy stepped out of his gov't approved 'First Amendment Zone' and began pontificating. His first mistake was to mention abortion and it went downhill from there.

I have no particular regard for the poor bugger, dragging his sons and family into a potential armed conflict with the feds, not very smart. Not to mention, anyone who represents himself in a civil or criminal case has already proven him or herself a blundering idiot. That said, as far as I can tell, he [Bundy] has yet to be convicted of anything criminal in a court of law. This means he's an innocent man until proven guilty...of something. Conviction by a feckless media, hamstrung with lingering white guilt, or courting protect classes means nothing to me. Bundy's only 'crime' so far, appears to be crass and inartful rhetoric, neither of which
are criminal. An inconvenient display of Free Speech possibly, but not criminal.

I fear for old Cliven and his family. A powerful US Senator has already said... "something will happen to Bundy" and I fear it will.

Posted by Besoeker 2014-04-26 06:42|| 2014-04-26 06:42|| Front Page Top

#3 S Shift the Subject
I Ignore the facts
N Name call

its the ""progressive" way. Do you see it at work here?

Posted by Spereting Tingle4064 2014-04-26 07:33|| 2014-04-26 07:33|| Front Page Top

#4 Bundy is a welfare cheat, stealing what other people pay for (grazing rights). Y'all wouldn't support this behavior if a "liberal" was the one doing it.

Posted by Odysseus 2014-04-26 10:51|| 2014-04-26 10:51|| Front Page Top

#5 What a bunch of Hogwash. The authors argument is akin to Occupy Wall Streets refusal to leave their encampments on the public malls. Plain and simple, Mr. Bundy is a Scofflaw.

Posted by DepotGuy 2014-04-26 10:54|| 2014-04-26 10:54|| Front Page Top

#6 Bundy is a welfare cheat, stealing what other people pay for (grazing rights). Y'all wouldn't support this behavior if a "liberal" was the one doing it. Posted by Odysseus

Huh, waitaminute.....43 million people on welfare and cows eating grass is an issue requiring snipers? Excuse me, but I think someone needs glasses or a cranial re-boot.

Posted by Besoeker 2014-04-26 11:11|| 2014-04-26 11:11|| Front Page Top

#7 Bundy is a welfare cheat, stealing what other people pay for (grazing rights). Y'all wouldn't support this behavior if a "liberal" was the one doing it. Yes I would. David Coresh, Dennis Weaver are two people I would not EVER associate with, they are so far out there I would never want to know them. But in their cases the feds went in too heavy handed, just like bundy, and for that I condemn the way it was handled. Do we really think the folks that need protection under our constitution are the strong? Harry Reid is strong, he uses the government rights and protections to hurt others. It is designed to protect the folks that are not mainstream as well, and the old country folks that seem to be still living in the 50's.

Posted by 49 Pan 2014-04-26 11:22|| 2014-04-26 11:22|| Front Page Top

#8 The author's argument is akin to Occupy Wall Street's refusal to leave their encampments on the public malls. Plain and simple, Mr. Bundy is a Scofflaw.

Occupy Wall Street didn't have use of public malls before they were occupied. Bundy did.

Bundy may be scofflaw, but that is not enough to warrant the kind of hostile federal response he received. Laying automatic rifles on people with the intent to shoot to kill; is that how civil matters are resolved? But that is how this government chooses to be. Therefore militias now occupy the land.

You also have to wonder about laches. In every other civil matter that would be an issue. Why isn't it a matter here, since the fedgov waited so long to collect the fees. Does no common law apply here and if it does, the fedgov has no right to impose fees on the basis of a one sided contract.

Posted by badanov 2014-04-26 12:54|| http://www.chriscovert.net 2014-04-26 12:54|| Front Page Top

#9 Keep your heads dammit.

Welfare Cheat
No. At worse he is a derilict renter. Show how he is receiving public money for nonexistant claims.

OWS
No. It is the mirror image. OWS wasn't there before Wall Street was built. OWS was demanding other people's money; Bundy's case is that he should keep his own.

But because neither side got stupid finger we can find out what the legal challenge is. This issue began because the Feds sent what would be anywhere else in the world a military unit to destroy property. Which, if this is a monetary issue, would be like a banker collecting on a bad car loan by bashing out the windows of the car with the debtor inside. It is the same issue with that vet in Florida whose house under definition of law became deliquant because he was absent for x amount of time and the law protects the drug dealing squatters. We should be thankful for the opportunity to consider such laws and their enforcement without the Boston Massacre or Kent State or Little Big Horn or whatever event.

Freegrazers are an unwelcome lot in ranching. Imagine your friend asks if he could stop by your house and make a sandwich so he could save a few bucks from eating out. You get home from work and your fridge and pantry is cleaned out, your facut is broke, and he has pissed in the sink.

If you don't know ranching, that is why fence upkeep is so important. If your cows get through your fence into somebody else's pasture not only do you have to go get your cows back, being careful to not take their cows, but you probably also owe at least a favor for the grass and water.

If a property owner is a derilict and does not maintain their fences and the neighbor cows constantly wander onto that property, the neighbors will get pissed and at the very least tell everyone within 60 miles that said owner is a derilict owner. Derilict owners have no reputation, no credit, no emergency help, no respect, no real friends.

So I ask the question: did the government, who decided that the desert tortoise was important enough to seize private property, make an attempt to build and maintain a fence?

Second: How was that property seized? Did the Bundys receive a letter in the mail (or otherwise announced) stating that was no longer his land to use, or did both sides go through a court process with legel representation?

Get those two questions answered and then we can go to name calling.

Understand the grievance. If you got a letter in the mail stating that under penalty of law you must pay $10 per night to sleep in your bedroom because the extra climate control necessary to make it comfortable threatens the well being of the Phalanges Stinkfish.

Also understand that the Fed plays the long game in these matters. Fines for occupational safety that the finest stores in Manhatten would be faulted for. Sections of land declared off limits because in theory Native Americans had a party there one night. Water wells unable to be drilled because there is what is left of a foundation of a house which blew away in the 1930's and is a historic treasure.

Go through your Bill of Rights and see just how many have question here. Another difference with your OWS is those were private citizens, this is the Federal Government, cosigner of the contract we call the Constition.

If you do want to do that whole Bundy Ranch is like OWS, then take a look at this difference. OWS used human beings citing the 1st Ammendment right to assemble to agitate against current Federal Laws and were wrapped in garland by member of the US Congress for keeping up the spirit of the 1960's. Bundy Ranch used human being citing the 1st Ammendment right to assemble to agitate against current Federal Laws and were named Terrorists, a word not used since the Bush administration, by the highest ranking member of the Senate.

So if you are going to do this nation of men instead of nation of laws business, then you must ask yourself this question knowing full well both Bundy Ranch and OWS used threat of violence against law enforcement to push their grievence, yet ignoring each side's cause for this question: which side's behavior do you must identify with?

*For the record, I was honestly trying to figure as best I could with what little reliable information was available who was in the right...until the cell towers and airspace was closed and was going Waco direction. IMHO it was the right call to withdraw the BLM to avoid violence (imagine the conversation now if there had been a shootout) and prompt an investigation. I do find it curious that neither side seems to be pushing the last 20 years of legal proceedings for their case (if the records are open that is).

**Bonus Question
If indeed there were independent contractors riding with the BLM, what if any difference in legel status do they have compared to official BLM employees?

Posted by swksvolFF 2014-04-26 13:00|| 2014-04-26 13:00|| Front Page Top

#10 ^ Ummm... that. swksvolFF has done deep thinking. In much agreement.

Posted by Shipman 2014-04-26 13:35|| 2014-04-26 13:35|| Front Page Top

#11 If you do want to do that whole Bundy Ranch is like OWS, then take a look at this difference.

Hold the bus. My comment was a direct response to the authors opinion not a direct comparison. My point being her premise is the same logic OWS claimed for occupying public squares across the country. Take the two following quotes from Mercers piece and try to envision some progressive pinhead spouting the same sludge to the approving finger wiggle of the drum circle as to why they wont leave the court house lawn.

Unlike the positive law, which is state-created; natural law in not enacted. Rather, it is a higher law a system of ethics knowable through reason, revelation and experience.

Dudeits like a totally higher law. Like the fascist Pilgrims stole the Indians land man.

Then there is the matter of logic. The public is an abstraction. In logic, an abstraction cannot possess property.

Yeah mancorporations are like publically heldthats like a total abstraction...why should they own shit?

*BTW, Bundy lost in court and on appeal usurp that.

Posted by DepotGuy 2014-04-26 16:49|| 2014-04-26 16:49|| Front Page Top

#12 Someone should explain to me why the fedgov in a contract dispute over an agreement has gained the right to seize land. In no dispute in the US, unless the owner has agreed and has pledged hi property, can en entity seize private property, properly quieted because the owner fail to pay fees unrelated to the ownership of the land.

*BTW, Bundy lost in court and on appeal usurp that.

So he lost in court. Still doesn't mean he gives up his land or his cattle to satisfy a judgment on a questionable agreement.

That he lost in court means nothing to me.

The law has been destroyed.

Posted by badanov 2014-04-26 17:37|| http://www.chriscovert.net 2014-04-26 17:37|| Front Page Top

#13 So he lost in court. Still doesn't mean he gives up his land or his cattle to satisfy a judgment on a questionable agreement.

Its not now nor was it ever his land to give up. As for them cattlewell I guess they was just trespassing.

Posted by DepotGuy 2014-04-26 17:59|| 2014-04-26 17:59|| Front Page Top

#14 Unlike the positive law, which is state-created; natural law in not enacted. Rather, it is a higher law a system of ethics knowable through reason, revelation and experience.

Yeah, I kind of agree with you on that DepotGuy. It is my opinion that the natural law is that the strong can take from the weak, and in our system designed by people who had just booted the British for doing just that, they put in a number of the Bill of Rights to protect against just that.

That particular natural law I believe was the argument against the Indian Relocation Act, and lost with that bill being passed by Congress and signed by Jackson 1830. What the BLM did is backed up by precedent all the way to those 19th century tactics. Its a losing argument. It seems as if the Feds say they own the land, then there is little recourse.

The IRA at least had the benefit of going before elected representatives. Who is this BLM, who is its head, where is its headquarters? Its one of the more obscure departments and people do not understand what its power and oversight is.

What are the court summaries of how this land came into the BLMs control? What were the opinions of the various judges? Into what account to these payments go? How many degrees of separation is Mr. Bundy from his vote to this taxation (or wtf it is getting called)?

Check out the picture of dude at the What Now White Cowboy? page, listed just below this one. Now what is officer friendly dressing up like?

I have not come across anyone defending the BLM. Their court order, authority, but not them or their tactics. Taking grandpa's cows, killing them, dressed up in the same kit gun grabbers are trying to ban on account that our government would nevah evah sends military type units against our own people.

Posted by swksvolFF 2014-04-26 22:24|| 2014-04-26 22:24|| Front Page Top

23:15 Pappy
22:50 Silentbrick
22:24 swksvolFF
22:03 swksvolFF
21:52 Grunter
21:30 Squinty
21:27 Squinty
21:11 P2kontheroad
21:10 P2kontheroad
20:55 Linker
20:52 E. H. Redloh
20:47 E. H. Redloh
20:44 OldSpook
20:42 OldSpook
20:39 OldSpook
20:39 Uncle Phester
20:28 Uncle Phester
20:25 Frank G
20:22 Uncle Phester
20:19 Uncle Phester
20:06 P2kontheroad
19:55 P2kontheroad
19:48 Redneck Jim
19:47 Frank G