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2014-04-20 -Land of the Free
Follow Up To This Week in Guns: Bundy Ranch Special Edition (from yesterday)
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Posted by Besoeker 2014-04-20 04:56|| || Front Page|| [11133 views ]  Top

#1 A good challenge for the knowledgeable minds of Rantburg on this Easter Sunday, which commemorates the day that Jesus Christ changed things for those who believed and also those who didn't.

Besoeker, I changed the URL link from the one badanov used to the Rantburg link for his article.
Posted by trailing wife 2014-04-20 06:44||   2014-04-20 06:44|| Front Page Top

#2 Like I've posted before, those 'agents' have to go home eventually, at night. It's the reason the local cops were not effective in Iraq or Afghanistan. They have to live among the population. When they start building permanent housing within compounds or picking up military housing from 'downsized' installations, pay close attention. Remember too, that our effectiveness in Iraq and Afghanistan was when the local trusted the foreigners enough to provide info on the hostiles. Info flow will drop below effective levels real quick if there is any shooting.
Posted by Procopius2k 2014-04-20 08:19||   2014-04-20 08:19|| Front Page Top

#3 Why go to all the trouble to set up a real incident? Gleiwitz incident format is much simpler & very predictable.
Posted by Glenmore 2014-04-20 08:19||   2014-04-20 08:19|| Front Page Top

#4 Real change will require a meaningful percentage of the population to believe the government is not merely mistaken or incompetent, but is in fact an enemy. Heavy handed tactics like those used at the Bundy Ranch change people's minds quickly. In other words, incidents like this quickly turn the population against you.

What is very disturbing is that this government doesn't seem to care about losing popular opinion.
Posted by Snick Prince of the Weak7544 2014-04-20 08:28||   2014-04-20 08:28|| Front Page Top

#5 John Fund has this perspective at NRO:

The United States of SWAT

We have a number of federal agencies with policing power. Fine, as far as that goes: The Fish and Wildlife Service occasionally needs to arrest someone. The IRS needs to investigate for tax fraud. And so on.

But one of the problems is that they've all up-gunned significantly without apparent reason. As Mr. Fund points out, the FBI has a much better sense (though certainly not perfect) as to when a SWAT team is required.

The BLM does not need a SWAT team -- if they do, they should call the FBI. As it stands, agencies like the BLM have wannabe infantry that lack accountability and the the very needed quality of stability when a situation is tense.

The Bundy ranch standoff could have turned out very badly: Mr. Bundy's people could have reacted with violence. The pro-Bundy militia types could have turned violent. And very importantly, the BLM SWAT teams could have turned violent.

That last one is, to me, the most dangerous part of the confrontation. Our society can deal with citizens who turn violent. But when the government turns violent against the citizens? That's when revolution becomes not only thinkable, but necessary.
Posted by Steve White 2014-04-20 08:48||   2014-04-20 08:48|| Front Page Top

#6 I think they had no idea it would inflame so quickly and their first bureaucratic reaction was "we'll squash this little dissenting bug".

A "First Amendment Area"? Really?
Posted by Frank G 2014-04-20 08:51||   2014-04-20 08:51|| Front Page Top

#7 Thanks for the re-post TW.

I'll be filming the egg hunt later today with the grannies. A few eggs failed to get the requisite paint job. Suppose I'll hide those for myself ;-)

Safe Easter travels to all.
Posted by Besoeker 2014-04-20 08:57||   2014-04-20 08:57|| Front Page Top

#8 What is very disturbing is that this government doesn't seem to care about losing popular opinion. Posted by Snick Prince of the Weak7544

Snicks: The Champ has already told the important people in his life that.... "he'd have more flexibility after his election."


Posted by Besoeker 2014-04-20 09:03||   2014-04-20 09:03|| Front Page Top

#9 I now understand Cliven Bundy's former rancher neighbors who lost their land to the Feds, are mobilizing legal efforts to get their land back.
Posted by Besoeker 2014-04-20 09:06||   2014-04-20 09:06|| Front Page Top

#10 I think the Feds _want_ an incident they can use politically, and don't care whether they win the engagement.

There is always the possibility of unintended consequences--something this bunch in Washington is not good at anticipating. Somehow, when shooting starts there are almost always unintended consequences.

The BLM does not need a SWAT team Many agencies do not need armed police/SWAT teams. It seems to be a status symbol for your agency these days. The weaponizing of agencies, presumably against the American people, is totally unnecessary and a danger. The present state of the Federal government is a huge burden on the American people. At some point one of the armed agents or one of the citizens is going to pull a trigger--then it is on.
Posted by JohnQC 2014-04-20 09:12||   2014-04-20 09:12|| Front Page Top

#11 regardless of how you feel about the standoff, Mr. Bundy needs to get right on paying his grazing fees on public lands to somebody, if only to Clark County.
Posted by Frank G 2014-04-20 09:36||   2014-04-20 09:36|| Front Page Top

#12 You can't make money paying $50 per year per head fees. In the years it take to raise a calf to a cow that can be taken to market, all profit is lost. That is why 51 ranchers lost their ranches. As designed by the feds.

Knowing this regime, there will be a heavy effort to go after supporters whose names the have or will have. It is how tryants work.
Posted by Bubba Graiting8281 2014-04-20 10:12||   2014-04-20 10:12|| Front Page Top

#13 ...and that is why the Bundys said the battle has just begun. They know the feds.
Posted by Bubba Graiting8281 2014-04-20 10:13||   2014-04-20 10:13|| Front Page Top

#14 Meanwhile, no comment from the Feds on the environmental impacts and obvious lost benefits of the Dung Beetle.

Dung beetles offer benefits, for livestock and pasture health, in any part of the country. They include:

• Fly control – Beetles can remove dung before horn and face flies lay eggs in it. Some also prey on maggots, reducing fly populations.
• Parasite control – Some beetles carry mites that don’t harm them but do eat parasite and fly eggs in dung.
• More complete foraging – Cattle won’t forage near patties, so when beetles break dung down, more pasture is ready to be grazed.
• Better nutrient uptake – By breaking down patties, beetles make nutrients such as carbon and nitrogen more available to pasture plants.
• Water absorption – Tunneling beetles improve the soil’s structure by increasing its capacity to absorb and hold water.
Posted by Besoeker 2014-04-20 10:29||   2014-04-20 10:29|| Front Page Top

#15 Why go to all the trouble to set up a real incident? Gleiwitz incident format is much simpler & very predictable.

I don't think they intended to "set up a real incident." I think the intent was to exploit, in multiple ways for multiple purposes, an already existing situation. That's pretty much in line with the history of previous actions. Think of it as a form of political ju-jitsu.
Posted by Pappy 2014-04-20 11:22||   2014-04-20 11:22|| Front Page Top

#16 

WARNING GRAPHIC: Several large holes of cattle slaughtered and buried by the feds are being dug up.
Posted by Bubba Graiting8281 2014-04-20 11:55||   2014-04-20 11:55|| Front Page Top

#17 Yes, agreed with FG, he's gotta get even with fees else the Bundys come over as free-riders. That said I know who's side I'm on.
Posted by Shipman 2014-04-20 12:01||   2014-04-20 12:01|| Front Page Top

#18 I believe I read somewhere (here?) that Bundy has put state (county? Not sure) fees in escrow.
Posted by Barbara 2014-04-20 12:12||   2014-04-20 12:12|| Front Page Top

#19  I believe I read somewhere (here?) that Bundy has put state (county? Not sure) fees in escrow.

I heard the same thing. the fees have been paid to a third party.

Also of note that Mike Vanderboegh of Sipsey Street Irregulars is reporting the feds are moving large numbers of shooters, clandestinely into Las Vegas, trying to act inconspicuous, presumably in preparation for an assault.

Funny that the feds talked the FAA into enacting a no fly zone around the ranch, and not in areas where the feds will be starting their operations.

I can well imagine the large number of privately owned UAVs buzzing about at the moment.

Real time data you can actually use...
Posted by badanov 2014-04-20 14:41|| http://www.chriscovert.net  2014-04-20 14:41|| Front Page Top

#20 My bet is that next time the Feds will go in en masse, at night, without warning. By the time people are aware, the dirty work will be done.
Posted by Rambler in Virginia 2014-04-20 15:26||   2014-04-20 15:26|| Front Page Top

#21 Don't overlook that the local sheriff may have done his best to set this up for a disaster. Clark County Sheriff Douglas Gillespie sits on the board of the SPLC (A liberal group that classifies Tea Party as a racist and/or hate group), and has been a proponent of mandatory registration of handguns. And unlike sherifs in other possible standoffs, this one acted to exacerbate things initially, instead of protecting his citizens by intervening to calm things down.

Consider that. Would the SPLC want to foment a firefight between citizens and Fed agents in order to justify national Fed intervention to intervene against "militia" and "Tea Party" groups nationally? You know Holder would go along in a heartbeat with such a racist ploy. Plus the CEO of SPLC now sits on the DHS “Working Group on Countering Violent Extremism," how convenient they are there to help the DHS target internal "enemies". And remember that Julian Bond, a Holder pal, is one of the founders of the SPLC, and also a director at People for the American Way, and a director at the Center for Economic and Policy Research -- all of which are Soros funded movements. The soros connections go wide and deep into this administration as most of you know. Then check the connections of all the people for Sidley Austin LLP law firm, of which Michelle Obama is a member, for example, David B. Barlow was a partner at Sidley Austin LLP, and is the U.S. attorney for the District of Utah for the U.S. Department of Justice;

Convenient.
Posted by OldSpook 2014-04-20 15:38||   2014-04-20 15:38|| Front Page Top

#22 I wonder what would happen to a US infantry officer who led his platoon into an Afghan village and treated the villagers the way the BLM has treated the Bundys.
Posted by Matt 2014-04-20 17:04||   2014-04-20 17:04|| Front Page Top

#23 I wonder what would happen to a US infantry officer who led his platoon into an Afghan village and treated the villagers the way the BLM has treated the Bundys. Posted by: Matt

His career would be over and the Bundy's would need a horse trailer to haul home all the USD in compensation paid to them.
Posted by Besoeker 2014-04-20 18:38||   2014-04-20 18:38|| Front Page Top

#24 Link to BLM cattle shooting story.
Posted by Besoeker 2014-04-20 18:48||   2014-04-20 18:48|| Front Page Top

#25 While the higher ups in DC are probably perfectly willing to lose a couple engagements, I'm thinking the LEO's are going to start having second and third thoughts about participating in the raids when it's them who end up getting killed in significant numbers.
Posted by Chantry 2014-04-20 19:17||   2014-04-20 19:17|| Front Page Top

#26 Apaches are in the area to fight the federal government according to a persons wordpress site who has been on the scene at Bunkerville. An Apache encountered a BLM agent on the range the day of the retreat, just prior to the retreat, who told him he had no right to be there. The Apache told the federal agent, "I've heard that before."

In the event of a "Waco Protocol" federal action, expect to see some unusual resistance.
Posted by Bubba Graiting8281 2014-04-20 22:10||   2014-04-20 22:10|| Front Page Top

23:46 Pappy
22:50 Uncle Phester
22:47 JosephMendiola
22:44 JosephMendiola
22:10 Bubba Graiting8281
22:03 JosephMendiola
21:54 JosephMendiola
21:51 JosephMendiola
21:43 OldSpook
21:42 OldSpook
21:31 Barbara
21:22 SteveS
19:59 Chinese Charlie
19:43 Zenobia Floger6220
19:17 Chantry
19:04 junkiron
18:56 Besoeker
18:48 Besoeker
18:38 Besoeker
18:37 junkiron
18:10 borgboy
18:00 borgboy
17:22 badanov
17:04 Matt









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