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2004-04-11 Home Front: Culture Wars

Islam in need of a Reformation (Think Protestantism)

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Posted by OldSpook 2004-04-11 3:28:21 AM|| || Front Page|| [11137 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Funny what you run into when you are looking for a local news paper report about the NCAA hockey championship.

If there were more Imams like this fellow, there'd be a lot less dead people in the middle east. Sad thing is that Sadr and his ilk would try to kill off this Imam were he over there. True reform is a huge threat to the power base the Shia fundamentalist ~~theocratic scam~~ system is built upon.

(FYI - Denver University won the NCAA Hockey Championship! Maybe its the Avalanche's year too?).

Posted by OldSpook 2004-04-11 3:33:32 AM|| 2004-04-11 3:33:32 AM|| Front Page Top

#2 Muslim world made huge strides advancing human knowledge in the areas of science, mathematics, astronomy, medicine, philosophy and more.

Debateable! Mostly they preserved Greek knowledge and to an extent transmitted Indian Knowledge to Europe. Also many of the Islamic scholars were in fact Jews or Christians. Find me an Imam who admits that and I will take notice of what they have to say.

Posted by Phil B 2004-04-11 3:35:42 AM|| 2004-04-11 3:35:42 AM|| Front Page Top

#3 I suppose that a religion invented by a lying, mass-murdering, Jew-hating, illiterate pedophile could be "reformed", but I doubt it.

Posted by Kirk 2004-04-11 3:42:50 AM|| 2004-04-11 3:42:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#4 You might be surprised, Phil B. Muslims were among the earliest to utilze windpower, hydro-power and specialized control engineering. Much of modern European cooking owes a great debt to Moslem cuisine as well.

I will certainly agree that the modern Muslim faith must face a complete and total reformation of their jihadist mentality. I'm still waiting to see moderate Imams martyr themselves by going into extremist regions and preaching the wrongness of violent jihad.

Once there is an overall rejection of terrorism and violence against innocent civilians, I will not feel quite so compelled to urge that we hold all major Moslem shrines hostage against further large-scale terrorist attacks.

Until then, a chemical or biological attack on any Israeli or Western city should result in the similar contamination of Medina. A dirty bomb explosion means we dust Medina with powdered isotopes of the same elements used in the attack. Evacuation notices depend upon whether we get any.

A nuclear terrorist attack means that we glass over and Windex Medina. A second one and Mecca is fused silica. I think that if Islam was confronted with the permanent crippling or loss of their most sacred shrines they might just STFU and quit all this jihadist nonsense.

We need to start in the triangle with lesser mosques and work our way up to Karbala's Tomb of El-Hussein. If the Shiites do not stop their attacks and interference with Iraqi democracy, we just start razing their most sacred holy sites.

If they keep it up long enough, they will merely cause the obliteration of all of their most treasured places of worship. This would send a perfect shot across the Islamist's bow concerning the major Saudi shrines as well. I'm sick of Islamists holding the world hostage with terror. If they know that any further major attacks would rain destruction on their most precious religious sites, they might calm down a bit.

Bouncing the Shiite rubble a few times might get their synapses firing for the first time in ages. Sure they might get real pissed off, but that's a chance I'm willing to take. Especially if they can't bring themselves to begin reforming their twisted religion. Until then, we maintain a credible deterrent by threatening the only thing they hold dear. If Islamist terrorism doesn't end, their effing pilgrimages will.

Just a little idea of mine.

Posted by Zenster 2004-04-11 4:41:54 AM|| 2004-04-11 4:41:54 AM|| Front Page Top

#5 Muslims were among the earliest to utilze windpower

Hero of Alexandria (a Greek) described a wind powered device in the first century AD.

And your comment on Muslim cuisine baffled me.

Posted by Phil B 2004-04-11 5:14:04 AM|| 2004-04-11 5:14:04 AM|| Front Page Top

#6 Phil, His name was Heron, and he also described a steam-powered engine. (The reason that these inventions were not realized in the ancient Greece and territoriries -- there was a sufficient and replenishable supply of human power --slaves-- that these inventions were not economical.

As for 'muslim cuisine', puzzled too. There is no such a thing. Neither there is 'christian cuisine'. Arab cuisine, Moorish cuisine, Turkish Cuisine, Malaysian cuisine..., etc., sure.

Posted by rsd 2004-04-11 5:34:35 AM|| 2004-04-11 5:34:35 AM|| Front Page Top

#7 >'christian cuisine'?

Easter eggs, of course. And chocolate bunnies.

Posted by RussSchultz 2004-04-11 9:26:28 AM|| 2004-04-11 9:26:28 AM|| Front Page Top

#8 The Arabs in Baghdad had a very advanced Astronomical observatory. They studdied the constellations and the movement of the planets and had a fairley advanced solar calendar .

Posted by Deacon Blues 2004-04-11 10:21:25 AM|| 2004-04-11 10:21:25 AM|| Front Page Top

#9 The non-Arabs in Babylon had about 3000 years of practice at astronomy (for astrological purposes) before Moh was a gleam in his daddy's eye.

Posted by Fred 2004-04-11 10:35:52 AM|| 2004-04-11 10:35:52 AM|| Front Page Top

#10 But didn't a catholic invent the reflecting telescope?

Posted by Shipman 2004-04-11 10:44:27 AM|| 2004-04-11 10:44:27 AM|| Front Page Top

#11 [Off-topic or abusive comments deleted]

Posted by mhw TROLL 2004-04-11 10:54:00 AM|| 2004-04-11 10:54:00 AM|| Front Page Top

#12 If'in we could lay a 30 years war on these slow boys it might be a good thing.

Posted by Shipman 2004-04-11 1:09:02 PM|| 2004-04-11 1:09:02 PM|| Front Page Top

#13 And your comment on Muslim cuisine baffled me.

Phil B, please peruse the The Cambridge World History of Food sometime. Mesopotamia had one of the most advanced food cultures in ancient history. Their use of highly varied and contrasting ingredients (sweet & salty) laid the foundations for most Mediterranean cuisines, including the Romans'. Italian cooking was one of the most significant influences upon French haute cuisine.

"The land between the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers, today part of Iraq, was apparently the birthplace of haute cuisine as well as a cradle of civilization.

One text that has come down to us is a Sumerian-Akkadian bilingual dictionary, recorded in cuneiform script on 24 stone tablets about 1900 BC. It lists terms in the two ancient Mesopotamian languages for over 800 different items of food and drink. Included are 20 different kinds of cheese, over 100 varieties of soup and 300 types of bread - each with different ingredients, filling, shape or size."

Posted by Zenster 2004-04-11 3:57:53 PM|| 2004-04-11 3:57:53 PM|| Front Page Top

#14 Ship - Here ya go, bro... :-)

Dumbass feel-good BS such as Morgan Freeman's moor character boggling Kevin Costner's poor unsophisticated Robin Hood character with a crude refracting telescope is just typical PC idiocy from Hollyweird. They wouldn't know fact from fiction if their lives depended upon it - unless it was in the form of a paycheck, methinks.

Regards Arab cuisine - it sucks like an F5. They turn everything into mush for scooping up with Indian panbread. I astounded a headwaiter in Al Dammam once by ordering fried eggplant with onions and garlic in olive oil - UN-pureed. On my first visit - they turned this great Mediterranean dish into baby shit in a bowl - as they do with almost everything except rice and meat. So-called Arabic food restaurants elsewhere have caught on: we don't like baby food after we grow up - so many I've visited serve veggie dishes Mediterranean-style, not Arab style. Check it out at an Arabic food outlet if inclined - but ask how they prep various dishes - many are an unappetizing surprise. BTW, the eggplant dish rocked in its original Mediterranean form, unlike the Arabic mush form.

Posted by .com 2004-04-11 4:18:42 PM|| 2004-04-11 4:18:42 PM|| Front Page Top

#15 Dang! Perhaps it was a Catholic after all. I was always led to believe it was Newton. who knows. The arabs invented the caluclus tho right?

Posted by Shipman 2004-04-11 5:34:40 PM|| 2004-04-11 5:34:40 PM|| Front Page Top

#16 Ship - LOL! Of course not - you're just funnin' me, right?!??! Here's an authoritative bit on the topic - but there are hundred such articles... the reason I present you with this one is the page title - check it out! Lol!

Posted by .com 2004-04-11 5:57:49 PM|| 2004-04-11 5:57:49 PM|| Front Page Top

#17 Now this page is the point where some Arabian innovation is creditable. Note, however, that even Arabic Numerals are Indian, and that the concept and working systems from other sources predate the achievement. Refinement and formalization of the process is the actual achievement - and it is definitely worthy of note and our admiration!

Credit where due - always. Screw revisionism!

Posted by .com 2004-04-11 6:06:25 PM|| 2004-04-11 6:06:25 PM|| Front Page Top

#18 From .com's link

Al- Khawarizmi was born in an area called Khwarism in the year 780, east of the Caspian Sea. In Baghdad, an important center of Islamic learning, Al-Kharizmi (whose Latin name is Algorithmi) wrote accounts numbers in decimal units introduced from India and encouraged their use in all calculations. His books include one titled "Al-Khwarizmi on the Numerals of the Indians" that did much to extend the use of these symbol throughout the Western world.

I have seen Arabs credited with invention of both Algebra and the concept of zero. The above makes it clear that they didn't invent the first and the concept of zero as we understand it today was discovered in India.

I did a couple of history of science courses in university and its interesting that the stuff I was taught about the Arabs inventing this and that, I have subsequently discovered to be almost all false.

Posted by Phil B 2004-04-11 8:05:18 PM|| 2004-04-11 8:05:18 PM|| Front Page Top

#19 Lies! Lies! All Infidel Lies!

(BTW, where's Mucky today, Ship? Heh...)

Posted by Islamic Scholar (Abu .Blashphemer) 2004-04-11 8:12:20 PM|| 2004-04-11 8:12:20 PM|| Front Page Top

#20 Regards Arab cuisine - it sucks like an F5. They turn everything into mush for scooping up with Indian panbread. I astounded a headwaiter in Al Dammam once by ordering fried eggplant with onions and garlic in olive oil - UN-pureed. On my first visit - they turned this great Mediterranean dish into baby shit in a bowl - as they do with almost everything except rice and meat. So-called Arabic food restaurants elsewhere have caught on: we don't like baby food after we grow up - so many I've visited serve veggie dishes Mediterranean-style, not Arab style. Check it out at an Arabic food outlet if inclined - but ask how they prep various dishes - many are an unappetizing surprise. BTW, the eggplant dish rocked in its original Mediterranean form, unlike the Arabic mush form.

.com, it's pretty obvious you have yet to sample even a fraction of Arabic food. It is among one of the world's finest cusines. I rate almost like Mexican, which is one of my favorites.

If you've never had slivers of vertically roasted gyros stuffed into a souvlaki style sandwich drenched with tzatziki sour cream & yogurt garlic sauce, you haven't lived. Likewise with piping hot falafels, tahini sauce and fresh vegetables folded into warm pita. This is some of the most healthy food on earth.

Lamb shish kebab over basmati rice with a side of hummus and roasted tomato. Superbly mild kibbe, sirloin beef tartare minced with bulgur wheat. The incomparable chello, a flatiron pan of perfectly brown-crusted cooked long grain rice.

You do not know what you're missing.

HINT: I prepare food from every continent on earth.

Posted by Zenster 2004-04-12 6:23:59 AM|| 2004-04-12 6:23:59 AM|| Front Page Top

#21 I prepare food from every continent on earth.

Barbecued penguin, yummy! Now you are talking (through your ass).

Posted by Phil B 2004-04-12 6:45:50 AM|| 2004-04-12 6:45:50 AM|| Front Page Top

#22 It is important to remember that virtually all the science in the Islamic empire was the work of apostates.

It is also important to realize that there already is a kind of reformed Islam, namely the Admadiyya movement. They are genuinely non violent and are hated by other moslems. An example of a moslem horrified by the Admadiyya movement is at: http://alhafeez.org/rashid/escape.htm
http://alhafeez.org/rashid/escape.htm

Posted by mhw 2004-04-11 10:54:00 AM|| 2004-04-11 10:54:00 AM|| Front Page Top

08:48 Gentle
15:45 Old Grouch
06:55 B
06:45 Phil B
06:23 Zenster
06:23 Mike
06:08 B
01:01 Super Hose
00:57 Super Hose
00:38 Aris Katsaris
00:33 Zenster
00:33 Super Hose
00:24 Super Hose
00:19 Super Hose
00:13 .com
00:10 .com
00:09 mojo
00:07 Jen
00:06 B
00:03 Raj
23:59 .com
23:58 Raj
23:57 Zenster
23:53 Aris Katsaris