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2003-04-01 Iraq

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Posted by FOTSGreg 2003-04-01 12:33 pm|| || Front Page|| [11130 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 (sorry for the length - please feel free to remove if its too long, or post it as an editorial)

In the Hindsight is 20/20 category:

#4. They feydaheen and intimidation factor.

My analysis:

Remember The Presidency of LBJ, and the Nixon victory? I mean PERSONAL memory, not remembering what you read in history books?

No?

OK how about Gerald Ford, and the raid on the Mayaguez off the coast of Cambodia? I mean PERSONAL memory, not remembering what you read in history books?

No?

OK, then think back to Jimmy Carter. 1978. Can you clearly remember anything that happened prior to the hostage crisis with Iran/Khomeni? I mean PERSONAL memory, not remembering what you read in history books?

No?

Ok. Now put yourself in the place of an Iraqi citizen, 35 years old. You were born when LBJ was in office - thatâs when the Baathists took over.

When you were 10, a coup from inside the party allowed a guy by the name Saddam to take control via assassination.

When you were 20, the only president you could ever remember is Saddam, and your whole life you have been told to watch what you say and obey. Youâve seen those who didnât punished, tortured and killed. You were forced to serve in the army, and either saw or heard rumors of mustard gas and nerve gas being used against rebels in the north. You hear that 10s of thousands were killed. Many of your old schoolmates tell tales of poison gas against the Iranians, and of officers shooting troops that didnât fight hard enough in the Shatt AlArab offensives a few years ago.

You're 25, and you were lucky enough to survive the war in Kuwait 2 years ago. The TV stations play it up as a win, but you know better. The problem is: if you say anything, you'll end up with you and your new wife and child dead. So you shut up and go along. After all, obedience is how everyone does things. Especially since the Americans left those folks in Basra out to hang after they asked them to rebel. Better to be quiet and live.

You're now 30 - its 1998, and the US President just flew over 300 cruise missiles into military targets all over the country. You probably know someone who lost a family member to these. Saddam claims another victory, but you donât see how getting your own people and places destroyed is a "victory". But again, you know better than say anything - or Uday and Qusai's "dark troops" will come get you and your family if one of their spies reports you even telling a joke. After all, you saw your neighbor's wife hauled into the street, accused of "prostitution", flung to an iron bench, and beheaded. And your family was forced into the street to watch - including your young children.

Now its 2003. You're 35. The Coalition armies have come again, this time into Iraq and near your city. Your government says the Republican Guard and Iraq is winning. Al-Jazeera says the US is killing whole families. Even the US Press says they cannot win, one of their own famous reporters even said so on Iraqi TV just the other day. You've been lucky enough to hide your oldest son and yourself away from the Feydaheen and their summoning of all males to fight or die. But water is running out, food is scarce. Soon you will have to risk leaving. You do not trust the Americans, after all even their own press says they are immoral and there might be some truth to Al Jazeera claims. And they are soldiers after all â your whole life soldiers job is to kill civilians who oppose their regieme â you have known this your whole life. You know better than trust the Feydaheen, the Iraqi Army, and any other Army.

After the Americans take your town in passing, they donât hurt you or your family, they even give you a little food. But they move their tanks down the road and prepare to move on to the next town. You remember what happened in Kurdistan in the north when they rebelled, and what happened in Basrah the last time the Americans left. So no cheering the Americans - you don't know who is watching. No acting like you are free, because the government and its spies are everywhere - you've learned obedience and silence your whole life. And the clandestine radio programs you get from the west speak of defeat and troops doing nothing and large protests against this war. Plus Saddam and his ministers still speak and are seen on TV.

So you know better than do ANYTHING that might be noticed, because it will get you killed. You've lived this long because you were cowed well enough to not be a threat. Nobody is going to help you - you have survived your whole life in the hands of madmen, and the only way for you and your family to survive is to not be noticed, to obey and submit to Saddamâs power. Your whole life is proof of this. You will not trust anyone, even those who seem to be your liberators. Not until you see Saddam dead, see the liberators staying to protect you, see the Feydaheen Saddam killed and chased out of the townâ¦ Not until your family and you are safe.

So THAT is why we are not being praised or welcomed. This is a populace that knows NOTHING but the constant threat and fear of its own government. And until it is very clear that A) That government is gone and B) That we are staying around as liberators - we will not see much of anything from the general populace.

Personal aside: I wish we had been allowed to finish the job the last time. We even had provisional orders to turn and march on Baghdad - the way was clear - but Bush-I bowed to the UN and fear of being unpopular, and stopped us. I hope this President Bush learns from his fatherâs mistakes and his own mistakes to ignore the UN, and just do whatâs right.

Posted by OldSpook 2003-04-01 13:35:03|| 2003-04-01 13:35:03|| Front Page Top

#2 OldSpook... Thoughtful and perceptive analysis that may explain what we are finding. I think back on the Allies finding the concentration camps and wonder if it too may offer a parallel. The population was so pychologically and physically devastated that they largely dispersed quietly... and not jubulently as you would expect from the newly liberated.

Posted by Capsu78 2003-04-01 14:04:29|| 2003-04-01 14:04:29|| Front Page Top

#3 Oldspook: I do remember the VietNam War, the Mayaguez incident, and all of the aforementioned items. While I'm only 44 this year, I've more or less always been especially attuned to current events. While I was never "officially" in uniform, I've also been places and done things that needed doing at the time (and have the scar on my throat to prove it due to one particularly unfortunate occurrence that sent me home) though there's no official record of said service. I hope to be able to perform additional service to my country as an elected representative in the future.

I understand and agree with all of your points and do fervently hope that we do it right this time around as well.

Posted by FOTSGreg 2003-04-01 14:13:30|| 2003-04-01 14:13:30|| Front Page Top

#4 Oldspook,

We cannot go back to the UN. The UN would be happy to keep Saddam in power and Food for Oil to run FOREVER. They make too much money to give it up.

Ask yourself how long the UN has taken "care" of the refugees of Jenin and Gaza. Ask yourself how long they intend to police Cyprus. Once they get involved, they never leave. And the UN is not about human rights, its all about money.

The UNSC was willing to put the UNMOVIC inspectors back into Iraq as a sop to the Americans. Little bit of inspection for as long as it took to get America to lose interest, GW to change the subject, and then business as usual.

Unfortunately, GW kept his eye on the post 9/11 ball, and France and the rest of the SC shenanigins is now history.

The UN is not about peace and human freedom. It is all about dictatorial power and money

Posted by john 2003-04-01 15:27:25|| 2003-04-01 15:27:25|| Front Page Top

#5 I remember that peanut was attacked by a rabbit, just can't remember if it was before or after 1978. And one making $25K was "rich." I remember the iron fist in the velvet glove wearing the same dress she wore when he became guv. I remember Grease & Animal House, both 1978. And the price of gas. Hey, I was in HS, after all. And the hair. Just went to a restaurant and a teenager had the same 70s hair. And my daughter can choose from the styles I wore. UGH!

Posted by Anonymous 2003-04-01 16:28:03|| 2003-04-01 16:28:03|| Front Page Top

#6 I'm in my a bit older than my example. But I scarcely remember Ford other than my dad (ex-Navy PT boat WW2 veteran) beign angry at him over the pardon (my first memory of military was asking questions about the Mayaguez and why didnt we have special foces that were any good), and the main thinga I remember about "Jimmuh" (pre-hostage) were sweaters/fuel-shortages, inflation (my dad explained it to me), Dan Ackroyd doing imitations of him, and him being the person that drove my dad to cast the first Republican vote of his life.

But my point was, even for an Iraqi in their 40's, its been a quarter of a century, all their "adult" life essentially, spent under the thumb of fear and terror and totalitarianism, living in an insane society. Thats why the current populace isnt rising - we burned them the last time, and Saddam/thugs have had decades to condition them against freedom and into fear.

As for the 70's - my mom still has a picture of me in wide flared plaid pants and long hair as an early teen that she threatens to send to my old war buddies as a joke. I counter that she shoudl sent the one wiht the mohawk when I was in my Punk Rock stage, just before I joined and got my current haircut.

Never a "bad hair day" with a high-n-tight. :-)

FYI FOTSGreg, - I worked to support some compartmented codeword "projects" that go unspoken even today, over a decade and a half later, so who knows, I may have set you up a long time ago. Small world. I used to speak Arabic (Iraqi dialect), Russian and a little G.I. German & G.I. Japanese so guess where I was. Its been 8-9 years since I last really used my Arabic, longer than that for my Russian. Funny thing is the G.I.-German stuck well enough that I can still help my kid with his German homework.

Posted by OldSpook 2003-04-01 17:09:32|| 2003-04-01 17:09:32|| Front Page Top

#7 I joined the Air Force the summer after Kennedy was killed in Dallas. I retired just after the Gulf war in 1991. Yes, I remember. We have a lot in common, Old Spook - I'd almost think we know each other. I'd like to offer a suggestion to all who read Rantburg: get a copy of Leon Uris' "The Haj" and read it. Very eye-opening. Uris has a habit of doing really in-depth research. His work of fiction has much that is fact. It provides a unique perspective on the entire Middle East.

The United Nations needs to be pruned down to a small group of "coordinators" who cannot expand their bureaucracy, and their powers should be limited to "making suggestions". Relationships with other countries should once more be established through bilateral treaties, not multilateral "agreements". As for what the UN is allowed to do in Iraq, "nothing" sounds about right to me.

Posted by Old Patriot 2003-04-01 18:36:15|| 2003-04-01 18:36:15|| Front Page Top

#8 FYI, it was more of a "Bootsy Collins" thing, before you get any ideas about the hair. Big P-Funk fan. I still cannot beleive I wanted that big "bush" afro on my head. The mowhawk was like Flea - not one of those white-guy rooster heads. Not to much of a step from that to a high and tight, hah.

Posted by OldSpook 2003-04-01 18:38:55|| 2003-04-01 18:38:55|| Front Page Top

#9 OldSpook: All I can say about what I did back then was that I can still read most of a Spanish language newspaper to this day. Small world indeed. I saw more "jungle" than I ever want to again though.

I've sworn oaths to my country 3 times in the past 25 years (mustering in and out at various times for various ops and special projects) and hope to do so at least once more before I pass on (not in any military sense however as my next goal is politics).

Posted by FOTSGreg 2003-04-01 19:37:05|| 2003-04-01 19:37:05|| Front Page Top

#10 I always remind folks that the Oath we take has no time limit.

... Uphold and Defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

And these days there seem to be some of the domestic variety rearing their heads (Columbia Universit prof, etc)

Posted by OldSpook 2003-04-01 21:53:09|| 2003-04-01 21:53:09|| Front Page Top

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