The Afghan government has arrested Taliban commerce minister Mulla Abdur Razaq in the on going joint operation by Afghan and US troops in southern Kandahar province. "We have arrested Taliban Minister and other 12 Taliban members," Khalid Pashtoon, a spokesman of the governor of Kandahar told the BBC. He said some 1,500 Afghan and American soldiers are conducting the operation in a rugged mountainous region in southern Afghanistan for Taliban fighters. The operation, which began Saturday, was being carried out in Sangisakh Shaila, a mountainous area on the border between Kandahar and Uruzgan provinces, about 70 kilometers north of the city of Kandahar. Pashtoon also claimed that eight other Taliban fighters had been killed. 13 in the bag, 8 deaders. Sounds like a good hunting trip.
He said the Afghan and American troops are successfully continuing operation, claiming that they have also recovered weapons, including AK-47 rifles and heavy machine guns. The spokesman said there have been no casualties among the Afghan or US troops. Kandahar had been the stronghold of Taliban and the home province of Taliban leader Mulla Mohammad Omar. US forces believe that Mulla Omar is likely to be hiding somewhere in Kandahar or the neighboring Helmand province. Keep turning over rocks, he'll crawl out sooner or later.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/31/2003 02:07 pm ||
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The same commentators who are now preaching gloom and doom in Iraq were the ones who swore that the USA would meet the same dismal fate in Afghanistan as the Russians and British before them. They're also the ones who were sure we would be unable to continue operating in Afghanistan while pursuing war in Iraq. But we proved (and continue to prove) them wrong.
An Egyptian electrician is being questioned after his truck slammed into a group of US soldiers in Kuwait, injuring 15 troops. The driver was shot in the chest and shoulder by US soldiers in Sunday's incident. The troops were outside a shop at a US base. The Kuwaiti Interior Ministry named the man as Lutfi Mohammad al-Barbari, 31. Al-Barbari, who had been doing maintenance work at the camp, is being treated in hospital for his wounds. "The motive is unknown. Whether it was an accident or something else, the investigators will find out," a spokesman said. I'd guess he saw a bunch of infidels and tried to mow them down. I'll be willing to change my mind if it can be shown he was blind or had a siezure, I guess...
One of the soldiers hit by the truck will be flown to Germany for treatment to an injured knee.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 01:09 pm ||
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al-Barbari ? Do they make these names up or something ? What's next ? Al-Hool-i-ghani and al-P'unk ? Somehow, I expect Al-Bundy to show up.
Posted by: Peter ||
03/31/2003 13:24 Comments ||
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There was report this morning on Fox that he was working on the base with two other locals. He locked them in a room, took the truck and went after the troops. That's pre-meditated in anyone's book.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/31/2003 13:37 Comments ||
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An electrician? So he knows about that stuff. Ouch, indeed.
Yemeni police have arrested two al-Qaida suspects, who killed a Yemeni police officer durng an escape attempt in the southern province of Abyan. A police source in Aden said Monday the men admitted being members of Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida network. The men were questioned following a routine road check by police which led to the discovery of bombs and other explosives in their minibus, Yemeni newspaper Al-Ayyam reported. Being Yemen, I'm surprised this raised an eyebrow.
While they were being transferred to police headquarters in Abyan, east of Aden, the men managed to fire shots at the two policemen accompanying them using concealed firearms. They killed one officer before fleeing. Hello? You arrest two guys for explosives, and you don't pat them down for weapons?
Security forces later recaptured the men, "who said they belonged to al-Qaida," the paper said. "The two men admitted they were members of al-Qaida, after their arrest Saturday in the Abyan province," east of Aden, the south's largest city, said the source, who asked not to be named. After killing a cop, I'm sure there was screaming involved in the questioning. The more the better.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/31/2003 10:53 am ||
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someone should keep a running total of AQ thugs nabbed around the world WHILE the war in Iraq is ongoing.
AUSTRALIAN hospital worker Robert Thomas has continued to be flogged in a Saudi Arabian prison after Australia argued for his sentence to be cut, foreign affairs have said. And Saudi officials had made no guarantee the Melbourne father of three would receive an early release, despite Mr Thomas' claims he had been told he would be home by June. Mr Thomas, 56, was sentenced to 16 months' jail and 300 public lashings with a bamboo cane after his wife, a Filipino nurse, was convicted of stealing hospital equipment in June last year. The anaesthetic technician, who had been working in Saudi Arabian hospitals for a decade, was found guilty by association under the country's Sharia law. He is due for release in October. HQ of the "Religion of Peace".
Posted by: Steve ||
03/31/2003 10:33 am ||
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was found guilty by association under the country's Sharia law
These are the same laws that retard Hollywoodites seem so eager to have installed in all Western countries.
#2
I must say I like that "Guilty by association" though. Ummmm where did the 9/11 terrorist come from again?
If the U.S. invaded Saudi Arabia they'd do so with Sharia blessing, right???
By opting to join the American hard Right, Tony Blair has made the gravest mistake of his political life. Shakespear would say: to be or not to be (a donkey)
Will Hutton argues that, by opting to join the American hard Right, Tony Blair has made the gravest mistake of his political life, one from which he cannot recover. Blair's drawn face, with its deepening gullies set in a near permanent hard frown, tells the story. This is the internationalist who is aiding and abetting, however unintentionally, the break-up of the UN system. The pro-European who is the trigger of the most acute divisions in the European Union since its foundation. The wannabe progressive whose closest allies are Washington's neo-conservatives and conservative leaders in Italy and Spain. Worse, he is fighting a barely legitimate war that is already a military and diplomatic quagmire, where even eventual victory may not avert a political disaster.
Huh huh! He said "quagmire"!
He knows his capacity to survive the diplomatic humiliations piled on him by the Bush administration is limited; you cannot long lead Britain's centre and centre-left from such a compromised position, wounding not only the country's profoundest interests but torching any linkage with the progressive project. For the first time his premiership is genuinely at risk. Serves right
It is a political tragedy, Shakespearean in the cruelty of its denouement. 9/11 accelerated trends in America that had been crystallising since the 1970s and which made the political structures in which successive British Governments have managed simultaneously to play both the American and European cards unsustainable. Blair was confronted with an invidious choice that nobody in the British establishment has wanted to make: Europe or America. Side with Europe to insist that the price of collaboration in the fight against terrorism had to be that the US observe genuinely multilateral international due process â and certainly say No to some of Washington's wilder aims. Or side with America insisting from the inside that it engaged in its wars multilaterally, and hope to bring Europe along in your wake.
Either choice was beset with risk, but it's hard to believe that siding with Europe, for all its evident difficulties, would have produced an outcome worse than the situation in which we currently find ourselves: a protracted war with no second UN Resolution, no commitment to UN governance of post-war Iraq, no commitment to a mid-East peace settlement. But Blair misread the character of American conservatism, its grip on the American body politic and its scope for rationality. He continues to do so, the miscalculation of his life. Rumsfeld's exploded strategy is ideological in its roots. This conservatism is a witches brew â a menace to the USA and the world alike. The Observer Anti American???
So what else is new? The Observer is usually anti-American, and it's true that Blair was pushed into a position, not through events of his own making, where he had to make the choice between the U.S. or Europe. He made the U.S. choice. As the write says, both choices were chock full of risks â the choice he made got him into war with Iraq. Had he made the choice to go with the EU, the same war would have taken place in Iraq â Rumsfeld said we didn't need Britain, even though we wanted them. Had Blair joined with France, Germany, and Belgium he'd be locked in the same position of looking (and being) ineffectual and obstructionist they are at the moment.
The writer makes the assumption that Bush and Blair are wrong, just as he makes the assumption that conservatism is a Bad Thing â a "witches brew â a menace to the USA and the world alike." Many of us don't think so. And many of us think that we'll be proved correct in our belief.
Posted by: Murat ||
03/31/2003 09:14 am ||
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I wish my country had a leader brave enough to join this "unequal partnership".
Oh, we have one. The leader of the opposition. A woman. Unfortunately elections are only due in 2006. I guess the war will be over by then.
It might be more than a coincidence that she grew up in East Germany: a country that would still be under communist rule had another US president not looked the Soviets in the eyes until they blinked.
#2
mugrat, my nickname for you, thanks for acknowledging that this is a legitimate war.
due process and the un, no one gets due process at the un.
an "exploded strategy" please, we are only 50 miles ouside of baghdad, we control the skies and we're slogging through the south.
watch and wonder what liberty is all about.
V
Posted by: Timmy the Wonder Dog ||
03/31/2003 9:36 Comments ||
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Hmm, this war has the support of over 70% of the American public. That's hardly the "Hard Right". More like the "Hard Right", "Hard Middle", "Soft Middle", Libertarians and just about anyone else who isn't "Hard Left".
#5
Omigod, where to begin? "Shakespearean in the cruelty of its denouement"; "invidious choice" Talk about hand-wringing.
No second UN resolution? There WAS a second resolution, dummy, and there were 15 category VII ones that followed (or was it 16?)
Notice another gem: "Collaboration" No, Will Hutton, how about cooperation. Collaboration means what your French friends did during WWII. "Wilder aims"? Yeah, like get rid of WMD and regimes that want us hurt, REALLY HURT.
No commitment to a UN governance of post-war Iraq? UN aid will be welcome, but not ever governance. Who runs Kosovo, BTW, these days? Really who runs it? Has the UN handled that one?I thought it was Kouchner, the Frenchie who founded Doctors Without Borders, at one point. Wasn't Kofi in charge of peacekeeping ops when Boutros was SG. Oh, yeah I want him involved in governing post-war Iraq. Plus who says the Iraqis will want anything to do with UN in governing their country? Mighty big assumption, Will; in fact, it sounds downright ARROGANT and UNILATERAL, not taking Iraqi opinion into consideration.
And to top it off, Hutton calls Iraq Blair's gravest political mistake. Maybe, but Blair is thinking national security and WMD, pal. Blair will be able to go to bed for the rest of his life knowing he was being a leader who saw what was in front of him and knew that disarming Iraq necessitated taking down SH. So Tony's on the right track. Clinton made plenty of political victories with his Euro effite elites while in office, but events have shown he didn't care enough about National Security. Just remember the times Sudan offered Osama on a silver platter and Clinton couldn't make Justice or State find a reason to hold OBL. You know, due process trumps all in their minds.
One more rant. I'm glad Wolfowitz sat down and typed up his plan in the wake of GWI's shortcomings. That's why those people get paid. Think out of the box and think big.
Posted by: Michael ||
03/31/2003 10:55 Comments ||
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I agree -- where's the news in this piece?
Posted by: Tom ||
03/31/2003 11:00 Comments ||
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Hutton has some growing up to do. Unfortunately, it may be too late for that to happen for him.
Tony Blair has joined the ranks of Disraeli and Churchill as British Prime Ministers that see something that NEEDS to be done, and does it, regardless of the consequences. He'll be remembered as another great statesman.
As for Europe, it's mainly France, Germany, and Belgium that are objecting. France wants to be known as the "leader" of Europe, along with Germany. The rest are supposed to blindly follow. When that doesn't happen, France whines like the immature, self-centered brat it is. The sins of France are finally seeing the light of day, as we learn more and more about how they misused the "oil for food" program, and acted to circumvent the sanctions the United Nations placed against Saddam's Iraq.
When the war ends, Bush and Blair will be in a position to allocate considerable business to both US and British countries, to direct the rebuilding of damaged infrastructure, and other direct financial benefits to their respective governments. The long-term payoff, however, will be the establishment of a government who will acknowledge those that have helped end the Hussein reign of terror, and to punish those who have contributed to that reign by supporting the brutality of the past thirty years.
The world is about to undergo another major upheaval. The United Nations has proven repeatedly to be more a part of the problem than a part of the solution. The European Union has been shown to be a union in name only, and is in reality the whipping boy of French and German ambitions. The United States and Great Britain, on the other hand, have shown they are determined to place an end to Arab terrorism, and will do whatever is necessary to achieve that goal. The dedication of both Bush and Blair have caused the rest of the world to suddenly understand that the English-speaking nations of the world are not going to just roll over and let anyone else supplant them without a battle.
The gloom and doom in this article is an attempt to forestall such a realization, because it will seriously undermine the author's illusions.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/31/2003 12:02 Comments ||
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Well, there's the rub, isn't it? The "unequal partnership."
England will never be equal until they stop their slide into communism and let the market do what it needs to. Which, if you read samizdata, bits and pieces are coming close to communism.
Side with Europe to insist that the price of collaboration in the fight against terrorism had to be that the US observe genuinely multilateral international due process â and certainly say No to some of Washington's wilder aims.
In 1941, Franklin Roosevelt could very easily have told Churchill, "Sorry, Prime Minister, but Japan's actually attacked us. Germany's only said they're at war with us and it's not like we're going to run into the German fleet anywhere in the Pacific. Hang in there until we finish with Japan and we'll see what we can do."
But we didn't. We fought the Japanese and the Germans for one simple reason. We thought Nazis were bad. We took over no European territory for our trouble, except for some graveyards.
Old Europe, on the other hand, apparently can't fight Islamo-fascism, a murderous ideology that has killed and will kill again, simply because it is an evil that must be destroyed. No, they will join the fight for a price. They'll throw in with us only if we ratify Kyoto, join the International Criminal Court, get the Palestinians a homeland, and do whatever other chores they come up with.
Will Hutton's inadvertently designed the Great Seal of the European Union. An image of Europa sitting in an Amsterdam red-light district shop window.
Posted by: Christopher Johnson ||
03/31/2003 22:04 Comments ||
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Deteriorated relations between two longtime allies over Turkish refusal to give access to U.S. troops for an invasion of northern Iraq resulted recently in top U.S. and Turkish military officers engaging in a telephone shouting match. Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, raised his voice and made clear his outrage during a conversation with Gen. Hilmi Ozkok, chief of Turkey's general staff. Ozkok replied in kind and then rudely hung up. International military shouting contest? I guess I was wrong to think that only US politicians where politically handicapped
Posted by: Murat ||
03/31/2003 01:19 am ||
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Turkey made itself irrelevant, and had better remain so. Ozkok's shrill voice and petty rudeness are the least of our worries. Spare us the details.
#2
This fight is unfortunate, because it is not the Turkish military who sandbagged the US military. And who pressured the military to hold one-man-one-vote-one-time elections, during Islamic revolutionary conditions? Islamaniacs blame capitalism for the economic backwardness caused by their interest (riba) prohibited social idiocy. Pakistan and Turkey would have collapsed by now, if not for the US subsidy.
#3
It might have to do with the stonings of the military assessment teams vehicles, with the teams inside, sent out to the countryside to determine why the Tomahawks crashed. The TV images showed armed Turkish military personnel standing around doing nothing to stop the stonings. Time to evacuate the remaining bases in Turkey. Another, if you don't want us, we'll be happy to leave.
Posted by: Don ||
03/31/2003 8:57 Comments ||
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Murat, I'm getting a little confused here. Would you please tell me the three countries that Turkey currently considers to be its best allies?
Posted by: Tom ||
03/31/2003 10:51 Comments ||
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Time to flush Turkey down the tubes unless they are willing to reciprocate when we give them aid. No more free lunches for these barbaric people. With the Bulgarians offering us basing and the probable establishment of long-term bases in Iraq, we have no need for the Turks.
And let them do it without one thin dime for the US, directly or indirectly. Their economy is already collapsing upon itself due to the terrible government there. They've voted themselves into this, now its time for the Turks to live with the consequences of thier actions.
Let them stew in their own Mustafa Kemal Ataturk created sewer. Let them deal with armed Armenians and Kurds until they learn to give those people equal rights, equal treatment and liberty.
Until such time as the Turks behave with honor as a true ally, we shoudl treat them as waht they are: of little consequence on the world stage, and an enemy of human rights and liberty, especially for their own opressed minorities.
#6
FYI - examples of historic Turk racism against the Kurds, After you research it, you wonder why the hell we supported these guys - it must have been political expediencey, first against the SOviets, then the Iraqis. With oth gone, we have no need to prop up the corrupt and thuggish Turkish society.
The Kemalist Turkish minister of justice Mahmut Asat Bozhurt, the then Turkish Minister of Justice, made the relationship of Turks and Kurds clear:
I believe that the Turk must be the only lord, the only master of this country. Those who are not of pure Turkish stock (Kurds and Armenians) can have only one right in this country, the right to be servants and slaves.
The results speak for themselves below:
Old archeological monuments and structure that proved the ancient history of Kurdish people in Anatolia were systematically destroyed. The words 'Kurds' and 'Kurdistan' were eradicated from all books and publications. Anything that would lead to a separate identity of the Kurdish people were eliminated in order yield the assimilation of the ethnically different Kurdish nation. Even the Kurdish language was banned, a fact unparalleled in history! No one in the state of Turkey was allowed to speak Kurdish, even though it was the language of thirty percent of the people. All Kurdish students were feed Turkish propaganda on the ethnic ancestry of the Kurdish people, they were taught that Kurds, were a pure 'Turkic race,' whereas in actuality the Kurds are ethnically Indo-Aryan, and the Turks are a mixture of Hun-Mongolian people. The Turkish education minister proclaimed that, the Kurds had forgotten their "Turkic" language in the fastness of the mountains of southeast Anatolia, thus referring to them as, "Mountain Turks.(Gunter)." The racist spoon feed propaganda of the Turkish educational institutions has reached to such a degree of reducibility, that it is often taught in the schools of Turkey, all the great Babylonian, Summerian, Egyptian, and Hittite civilizations had been created by the Turks(Kendal). In order to hide the fact that the Kurds had lived in Anatolia four thousand years before one Turk stepped in. The Turkish intelligentsia determined the Kurds came from Central Asia five thousands years ago. The situation deteriorated to the point where to state " I am a Kurd " was a crime so serious as to warrant the death penalty under Turkey's anti-terrorist laws (Kendal).
From IRNA, use a kilo of salt, but it does sort of ring true, doesn't it? Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt Sunday toughened his position against the war in Iraq. oh-h-h-h-h? T-t-t-tough-ened it? Ethel, my pills!
Speaking at a meeting of his liberal VD VKD party in the city of Antwerp, Verhofstadt denounced the US as "very dangerous." "America, a power deeply injured, and has become very dangerous, and it thinks to take over the whole Arab world," Belgian RTL TV quoted him saying. He said the US regards the Arab world responsible for all terrorism. Well not all of it, but it sure seems to be a growth industry there.
"This is a logic which I do not share," he said. It's not clear you share any logic. Okay, obvious cheap shot, but this is Rantburg.
An estimated 30,000 Muslims mainly from North African countries live in the port city of Antwerp . Was Verhofie trolling for votes or trying to keep the lid on?
Verhofstadt added that everything must be undertaken to restore the international legal order. Belgium, the Mini-me of France.
For startsies, the International Community® could enthusiastically assist in hunting down and killing the people who declared war on us and attacked our country. Since they're not, we're doing it ourselves, and they can put up with the consequences.
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/31/2003 12:29 am ||
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Well not all of it, but it sures to be a growth industry there.
Should have read, "Well not all of it, but it sure does seem to be a growth industry there.
Man, it's time for bed.
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/31/2003 0:36 Comments ||
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Let us observe a moment of silence for the ten million Congolese murdered by Belgium betwen 1880 and 1930. No Belgian government has apologized for that genocide. No Belgian has been punished for it.
#3
What he actually said was even worse. He quoted President Bush's remark that it is preferable that American soldiers die in Iraq while defeating a terrorist sponsoring regime (however saddening the death of American soldiers is) than to have firemen and police officers dying in the streets of American cities, fighting the consequences of terrorist attacks. Then Verhofstadt said that he does not share such a logic. So, the only possible conclusion is that the Belgian Prime Minister wants there to be many dead Americans on American streets. This man is beyond despicable, he is a declared enemy of America, who prefers the mass killing of American civilians to the termination of a vile regime.
All of this doesn't surprise me, as I had the dubious privilege of attending a lecture of Verhofstadt's speechwriter. That man is so much to the left that he would have made Lenin blush. He spouted vile anti-American nonsense (of the Indymedia variety or worse) and expressed his desire to form a EuroArabian Empire that would crush the USA and rule the entire world. During most of his lecture, he was almost hysterical and reminded me of footage of Hitler's speeches. It seems that the speechwriter has a lot of influence on the Belgian PM, who used to be a fairly reasonable, center-right politician.
Posted by: Deep Throat ||
03/31/2003 3:23 Comments ||
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The US is very dangerous to his continued ability to have sex parties with young children, under the full protection of the law.
#5
hmmm, just occured to me why the Vatican is siding with the UN and Belgium. No offense intended towards real Catholics, just the Vatican.
Posted by: a non ||
03/31/2003 6:08 Comments ||
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Distressing though it is to read stuff like this, I think we're fortunate to have an opportunity to see so clearly who are our friends and who are not. That's valuable information.
Posted by: Dave D. ||
03/31/2003 6:23 Comments ||
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Who the hell cares what Belgium thinks? What are they going to do, cut off our chocolate?
#8
a non - as a Catholic I should take kneejerk offense, alas, there's way to much truth in it. I cannot for the life of me understand why the Vatican hierarchy is so against this campaign, which I believe is a just war, and which will free so many muslims and christians (chaldeans) from a torturous and murderous regime. I can see a apology from a future pope for the actions of this pope, similar to holocaust apologies for not doing enough. Too little, too late, and I can only say this Catholic will not follow the Vatican line
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/31/2003 8:07 Comments ||
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Amen to what Frank G said regarding the church. As a Catholic, I can't understand why the Pope warmly welcomed Tariq Aziz when he visited about a month ago. I still believe in its teachings, even though it seems determined to embarrass itself at every opportunity.
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
03/31/2003 11:00 Comments ||
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#10
Thank God I'm an Athiest......just kidding.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
03/31/2003 11:04 Comments ||
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This was posted by Chicagoboyz in Feb, but no one could understand Flemish to corroborate:
In today's De Standaard, a Flemish newspaper which is not unsympathetic to the government of Michel and Verhofstadt (yes, in that order of importance), the unofficial foreign policy guru of Belgium Rik Coolsaet, a professor at the University of Ghent, brags about the genius of the Franco-Belgian policy. It is primarily aimed at derailing NATO, which he describes as toolbox for American imperialism on the European dime. The second objective (and Coolsaet is very straightforward about it) is to thwart American influence by humiliating it in front of the Arabs (who have a very keen sense of honor and prestige, and who can be trusted to attack America relentlessly once it is humiliated). This ignorant fool who passes for a foreign policy scholar is actually proud of the acts of sabotage that his friends in government committed. But he offers no vision for a post-US world, eccept empty phrases about a multilateral order that will make everybody miraculously happy.
That's the point where France and Belgium have arrived : pure nihilism. And it's no wonder that a man without convictions like Schroeder is fond of the company of such nihilists.
#15
Look, Belgium doesn't mean shit. As a country, it just doesn't matter. All of these far left, declining, impotent little countries that seem to populate western europe believe that their opinion of us is more important than our national security and interests.
Belgians, I hate to break the news to you: Americans don't care what you think. You are irrelevant (except to France and Mrs. Sees Candy) So please stop wasting your time. Make your chocolate and kindly shut the hell up.
Edited for length...
A steady sale of illegal arms from Yugoslavia to Iraq ought to be something we stopped worrying about with the downfall of Dictator Slobodan Milosevic. Evidence of illegal arms sales came to light last October when NATO-led peacekeeping troops raided the Orao aviation factory in the Serb-controlled area of Bosnia. Among the documents they found was a contract for $8.5 million to repair and upgrade the engines of Saddam's MIG fighter planes. They also found a copy of a letter sent last September to the Ministry of Defense in Baghdad outlining precautions to avoid detection by UN weapons inspectors. That letter was sent to the Iraqis by Yugoimport, the Yugoslav arms export agency, and signed by the director of Yugoimport in Baghdad. Just how much the Iraqis relied on the Yugoslavs for arms is laid out in a report by the International Crisis Group, an independent organization that seeks to pinpoint potential trouble spots around the world.
We spoke to the author of the report, Dr. James Lyon. âWhat we later found out was that it was not just jet engines,â Dr. Lyon said. âThere were a whole series of other weapons that appeared to have gone, including artillery shells, including technology that could enable Saddam to enhance his Scud missiles, including anti-aircraft technology, including a whole series of other military technologies and equipment. So it wasn't simply jet engines in question. It could have been a whole laundry list of equipment... Some estimates have put it as high as perhaps $3 billion, others $1.5 billion, no one knows for certain.â
Yugoimport, which is a state-owned company, saw hardly any of that money. Zoran Kusovacs, the Balkan defense analyst for âJane's Defense Weekly,â says most of it went into the pockets of private individuals. âThey have been operating like private arms dealers, at the same time when and where convenient, using allegedly the umbrella of the state,â Zusovacs explains. âThis does not say that the officials did not know about these deals. Arms deals at this scale lasting this long cannot go unnoticed.â
Lord Paddy Ashdown, who is a UN representative in the Balkans, âI think [the Yugoslav arms trade is] more widespread than we have yet currently uncovered. When you look at this, you need to think of the old, as it were, ghostly network leftover of the JNA, the Yugoslav National Army's generals who controlled the military industrial complex, who existed in the days of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and who went on controlling it afterwards.â
Those Yugoslav army generals long had close ties with Iraq. In the 1980s, they developed a joint weapons program that produced a multiple rocket launcher that can fire chemical warheads. âThe information we have come across indicates that the arms sales may have actually increased after Milosevic left power,â says Dr. Lyon, of the International Crisis Group. As President Bush began to beat the war drums, the Iraqis began to rely extensively on the Yugoslavs because of their decades-long cooperation, and because the Yugoslavs were the only other country that they dealt with that had been bombed by the Americans. Zoran Kusovacs says that during those air strikes the Yugoslavs, using sophisticated computer systems, acquired an in-depth knowledge of American aerial tactics. The Yugoslavs managed to upgrade their anti-aircraft missiles with a television guidance system that allowed them to shoot down an American stealth bomber and to keep NATO aircraft above 15,000 feet. That system has allegedly been passed on to Iraq.
It wasn't just firepower but brainpower that the Yugoslavs exported to Iraq. Professors from the Technical University in Belgrade made frequent trips to Baghdad to help the Iraqis make a harmless looking aircraft, a Czech-made jet trainer, [that] can be armed with tanks of chemical or biological weapons and equipped with remote control technology. Military experts say that it can be turned into what they call a âpoor man's cruise missile,â able to launch attacks on Iraq's neighbors.
But when news of the illegal arms deals broke, the democratic government which relies on American aid was quick to deny all knowledge. We asked Miroljub Labus, the Deputy Prime Minister in charge of foreign trade, who he thinks was behind the illegal arms sales to Iraq. âSome private vested interest,â Labus replies. âSome people in the last ten years, mostly from the military, retired gentlemen or generals, and they had very good relationships with Ministry of Defense, so they've been very active in selling those weapons.â Deputy Prime Minister Labus says that the government immediately dismissed a Ministry of Defense official and a retired general who was head of Yugoimport.
But what about the government ministers, including the Minister of Defense and the Minister of Interior, who sat on the board of Yugoimport? How is it that they wouldn't know what's going on? âWell, they claim that they didn't know everything what happened, you have to talk to them,â the Deputy Prime Minister says.
The fact is, those ministers did know. In January 2002, the Yugoslav Foreign Ministry presented a document at a cabinet meeting detailing those illegal sales, and warning that such a breach of UN sanctions would damage the government's attempts to win Western approval. Labus attended that meeting, and he says âmy impression was that we passed a decision to cancel any trade. But it turned out that some ministers didn't share that view.â So whatever they decided to do at this cabinet meeting, in fact nothing was done.
Why? Dr. James Lyon thinks âthere were people in that new democratic government who were directly profiting from those arms sales. One of those people, it is alleged, was Prime Minister Zoran Djindjic, who, ten days ago was gunned down in Belgrade by unknown assailants. After his death, Djindjic was praised in the West as a liberal reformer. But he was also thought to be involved in illegal arms deals as well as other criminal activities.
Posted by: ISHMAIL ||
03/31/2003 12:08 am ||
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#1
THE ABOVE NEWS ITEM APPEARS ON CBS, THE LINK IS AS FOLLOWING:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/03/30/60minutes/main546826.shtml
#2
"... Prime Minister Zoran Djindjic, who, ten days ago was gunned down in Belgrade by unknown assailants...he was also thought to be involved in illegal arms deals as well as other criminal activities."
And of course, it was mostly our fault...
Chirac was accused of taking bribes when he was just a mayor (but not proseuted, seems that in France you can't prosecute while someone is still in office), should we go take him out? Well, OK, yes, but for more than that...
Posted by: John Anderson ||
03/31/2003 2:11 Comments ||
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#3
Just saw on FoxNews clips of a humongous cache of artillery and tank shells, some still in boxes with stencilling directing them to the Jordanian Army. Ouch...
#4
Path,
Just before GW1 kicked off, Jordan provided a lot of material to Saddam. It is likely that this is the origin of the captured materials. Considering their dependence on the Iraqi oil and Bush Sr.'s unwillingness to Saddam to his just resting place, it looks like the former King was unwilling to cut his country's economy for no compensation in return. As the last 12 years have played out, I can't fault him. Now if that stuff is younger than 3 or 4 years, it could become very interesting for some in Jordan. However, they are permitting us to do things through Jordan in a manner similar to Kuwait but without the high profile.
Posted by: Don ||
03/31/2003 12:15 Comments ||
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#5
Did you see the quote at the bottom of the original article:
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The U.S. must take some of the blame for the way that the state and organized crime continue to march hand in hand in this country, as they did under Milosevic, says Zoran Kusovacs.
âThe United States bears a lot of the responsibility because, along with others in the West, it has let the changes go skin deep,â he explains. âMilosevic has been changed. The system has not been changed. And certain things that were done under Milosevic are still being done under the democratic government, and they're as unacceptable now as they were then.â
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Good Lord. They crap on us when we do something about things like this in others' countries, then they crap on us when we don't do enough.
Britain's Daily Mirror said on Tuesday it had hired veteran U.S reporter Peter Arnett, sacked by American TV network NBC after he told Iraqi television the U.S, war plan against Saddam Hussein had failed. "I report the truth of what is happening in Baghdad and will not apologize for it," he told the tabloid newspaper, one of the most prominent opponents of Britain's involvement in the war. Huh. That isn't what he allegedly told the Today Show. That's Today's front page. There's a video, but no transcript.
"I want to apologize to the American people for clearly making a misjudgment over the weekend by giving an interview to Iraqi television," said Arnett, who added that what he said in the interview was "what we all know about the war."
"There have been delays in implementing policy and there [have] been surprises. But clearly, by giving that interview to Iraqi television, I created a firestorm in the United States and for that I am truly sorry, Matt," he said.
Well, the Mirror. Who'd a thunk? Suppose he and John Pilger will get along? Pilger's an Aussie; Arnett a Kiwi. Maybe they'll share an office. How sweet!
#5
Warning: Do not attempt to read this on a full stomach. This is supposedly his first column for the Mirror. I hope it's an April Fools' Day joke. Yeccch!
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=12795678&method=full&siteid=50143
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
04/01/2003 5:57 Comments ||
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Nick "Million Mogadishus" De Genova wrote the Columbia Daily Spectator and complained about being quoted out of context
In my brief presentation, I outlined a long history of U.S. invasions, wars of conquest, military occupations, and colonization in order to establish that imperialism and white supremacy have been constitutive of U.S. nation-state formation and U.S. nationalism. In that context, I stressed the necessity of repudiating all forms of U.S. patriotism. I also emphasized that the disproportionate majority of U.S. troops come from racially subordinated and working-class backgrounds and are in the military largely as a consequence of a treacherous lack of prospects for a decent life. Nonetheless, I emphasized that U.S. troops are indeed confronted with a choice--to perpetrate this war against the Iraqi people or to refuse to fight and contribute toward the defeat of the U.S. war machine. Oh. So you're not a hysterical anti-American then? No way no how, says Nick, trotting out a version of the Arabs don't-you-dare-call-me-an-anti-Semite-because-Arabs-are-Semites-too line
Is this a tirade against "anything and everything American"? Far from it. First, I hasten to remind you that "American" refers to all of the Americas, not merely to the United States, as U.S. imperial chauvinism would have it. More importantly, my rejection of U.S. nationalism is an appeal to liberate our own political imaginations such that we might usher in a radically different world in which we will not remain the prisoners of U.S. global domination. Gotcha. You don't hate "America" at all. It's the United States that sucks. Except for that part of the United States that Columbia University sits on since they pay you tons of money to vomit up this twaddle.
Posted by: Christopher Johnson ||
03/31/2003 12:41 pm ||
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#1
This guy's got his facts all wrong as well. "the disproportionate majority of U.S. troops come from racially subordinated and working-class backgrounds and are in the military largely as a consequence of a treacherous lack of prospects for a decent life" statement has recently been shown to be categorically untrue. A recent study showed that blacks, hispanics, and other minority classes made up about 20% of the US military. In addition, of this 20%, about 80% was in non-combat roles. In fact, the study showed that frontline combat troops were about 80% caucasian (white for Murat) and that the non-white troops chose roles in the military that would present them with better job opportunities outside of the military.
"First, I hasten to remind you that "American" refers to all of the Americas, not merely to the United States, as U.S. imperial chauvinism would have it."
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's how the leftists and socialists would like to see things, but that is not how it is. Ask anyone from Mexico, Nicaragua, Brazil, or any other Latin or South American country where they come from. The answer will not be "America", it'll be Mexico, Nicaragua, or Brazil.
"we might usher in a radically different world in which we will not remain the prisoners of U.S. global domination."
Twaddle is right. When has America asked for more than land to simply bury our dead in? Is that US global domination?
#2
"racially subordinated" "working-class" "U.S. imperial chauvinism" "establish [US] imperialism and white supremacy" " U.S. war machine" "prisoners of U.S. global domination"
All straight from the Communist Party code-word lexicon. Sheesh, this could have been striaght from the old Kruchev, Mao or Stalinist propagandists.
The only thing he left out was remarks about 'running dog capitalists'.
"U.S. invasions, wars of conquest, military occupations, and colonization"
Umm prof, point out one US colony form the latter half of the 20th century?
Point out a war of conquest in the last 75 years - the only land we take permanently is the land we bury our dead in.
This guy is an idiot. Why are our tax dollars paying his salary?
As for the "explanation" - hell he did more damage than with the Mogadishu remarks. He painted himself as an old hard-line anti-American marxist.
Hey pal, the 1950's are done, as is communism. Go learn something new - try starting with the truth.
#3
...and he's a PERFESSER, so he knows SO much more then the rest of us ignorant slobs. Nick, baby, since you hate American imperialism so much, why don't you request to be paid in Iraqi dinars instead of American dollars? Show solidarity for the oppressed people of Iraq who are waging the fight against facist, imperialistic Amerika. What? Yeah, I didn't think so, hypocrite asshole.
#4
Nick, you're just a Boil on the ass of Society. Hope you enjoyed your 15 minutes, now scamper back to your hole and don't come out until the adults are finished.
Posted by: Yosemite Sam ||
03/31/2003 13:46 Comments ||
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#5
In that context, I stressed the necessity of repudiating all forms of U.S. patriotism.
What a crock of stupidity cubed! This guy not only hates the United States, he doesn't want ANYBODY to be patriotic. "We must pay for the sins of our past." Funny, though, how many nations have decided our particular Constitution is the one best copied, with changes made to reflect that particular nation's concept of itself. Funny that our founding fathers are the ones most often quoted when anything dealing with freedom is discussed. Funny how, of all the nations of the world, people seem to flock to ours most often. Funny how our standard of living, across the board, is higher than just about anyone else's, and even our poor would be considered wealthy in half the nations of the earth.
As for "imperialism", the only "imperialist conquests" I can think of are those of the Spanish-American war of 1898, following the destruction of the Maine. We gave Cuba her freedom, we maintained control of the Philippines until 1946 (more for strategic purposes than a desire for colonies), we kept Puerto Rico because the island wasn't capable of being self-sufficient at the time, we kept Guam and a couple of minor islands. Other American possessions have either been returned to their rightful owners (their inhabitants - primarily captured Japanese territory held in trust under United Nations mandate, and the island of Ryukyu, returned to Japanese control), or were not the spoils of conquest, but direct purchases, appeals from the inhabitants, or multinational agreements - Danish West Indies, American Samoa, Alaska, and Hawaii.
Sounds like this "history" professor only wants to accept the history he agrees with, and warps, twists, and misrepresents the rest. I give him a D-, and that's being generous.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/31/2003 13:48 Comments ||
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Thanks Nickie some valuable insight into the anti-war left.
The AP reports:
"The professor, Nicholas De Genova, also called for the defeat of United States forces in Iraq, and said the only true heroes are those who help defeat the American military. He said Americans who call themselves patriots are imperialist white supremacists."
Nickie, American lives are at risks, fighting for your freedoms.
Here is the email of the president of columbia university. Tell him what you think.
Lee C. Bollinger, President
email: bollinger@columbia.edu
V
Posted by: Timmy the Wonder Dog ||
03/31/2003 13:57 Comments ||
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#7
Glenn Reynolds at Instapundit links to a weblog by Nickie's old college roommate:
Apparently our good Nickie has always been a Trot, but room mate doesn't quite understand how Nickie managed to gush the most recent words out of his mouth. Must be stress. The room mate sounds normal, judging by other posts on his blog, so his comments about Nickie are quite helpful.
By the way, Nickie is not a professor, he's an Assistant Professor. Quite a difference in academic rank (in order at most places from top to bottom: distinguished professor > professor > associate professor > assistant professor > instructor > lecturer > adjunct faculty). For those on tenure tracks, it generally occurs at the associate or full professor level.
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/31/2003 14:27 Comments ||
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Old Patriot,
For the sake of historical accuracy, we acquired the Hawaiian Islands after a coup was staged by American plantation owners against the royal family; the owners then invited the American government to assume control.
Also, Puerto Rico has the right to have a referendum on the question of independence whenever it wants it -- hardly imperialistic behavior.
We also agreed, well before WW II, to give the Phillipines independence (I believe there was a document or agreement to that effect from the 1930's). One of the reasons why the Filipinos fought so bravely on our side in WW II was that they saw Americans dying to honor their word to defend the Phillipines, even though we had already said that the Phillipines would be independent. That was seen as particularly honorable on our part.
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/31/2003 14:33 Comments ||
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#9
The only thing he forgot to say was "get the US out of North America!!!"
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
03/31/2003 14:52 Comments ||
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#10
Patriotic = "White Supremacist" ? He ought to look into my very dark brown face and say that.
And yes, before you ask, I did choose my nickname with a definite deliberate pun - I used to be in a "Ghost" platoon of Cav scouts, then did intelligence work for an unnamed government agency as a "spook" of sorts, and then there's the old meaning of the word that I heard as a kid in the South. I'm using it much the way Mel Brooks used the "N-word" in Blazing Saddles: once you laugh at something it has no hold of fear over you.
#11
outlined a long history of U.S. invasions, wars of conquest, military occupations, and colonization in order to establish that imperialism and white supremacy have been constitutive of U.S. nation-state formation and U.S. nationalism.
Have you ever felt the urge to just kick someone's teeth in?
#14
This is so typical of a big mouth, who realizes what he has just done or said - is about to draw more negativity upon himself, than he is capable of dealing with. Back-peddle, B.S., Back-peddle, B.S. a little more ...etc,etc.I've seen it hundreds of times.After spewing out his damaging and revealing views and intentions(whether verbal or physical) - he then cries "foul" or "I've been mis-understood". Then after whoever he has offended, -- is appeased, he goes forward in his sneaky little way with his destructive intentions just as before(its the same M.O. as Hussein, as well as all other weasel cowards). This guy needs to meet a few marines, face to face, in an "out-of-the-way-place" to have a discussion. Or better yet - if he is so against America - he should go over to Iraq. They will be glad to hide behind him as they shoot at our boys - Im sure he'd be glad to do that................he is an asshole and doesnt deserve to live in this country.
Posted by: True American ||
03/31/2003 17:01 Comments ||
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#15
Well...this professor is just spouting the current American Studies doctrine. Usually, they keep this nonsense hidden in the halls of academe...but this war seems to bring out all the roaches.
#16
Oldspook - that shows, above all, a sense of historic perspective, a sense of humor, and a sense of pride for your achievements - I like that, and wish I saw it a lot more often. Our society would be the better for it
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/31/2003 22:38 Comments ||
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#17
US War Machine.I like how that rolls off the tounge.
I put this under "Terror Networks" because Fred -- for some unknown reason — doesn't have a "Dickheads" section.
For nearly three weeks, a special police task force hunted for a killer who was calmly shooting immigrants at work in Brooklyn and Queens. Then the suspect showed up at their front door, police said Sunday. Evil AND stupid. Great combination.
Larme Price, 30, of Brooklyn, walked into a Brooklyn police precinct Friday and offered to help track down the suspect, police said. Within a day, police said, they obtained Price's confession and his stated motivation: exacting revenge for the Sept. 11 attacks. Lookit me! Lookit me!
Price told authorities he was targeting people of Middle Eastern descent when he shot immigrants from Guyana, India, Russia and Yemen in convenience stores and an all-night laundry over the past two months, police said. They don't have a death penalty in New York, don't they?
Price described the Guyanese, Indian and Yemeni-born victims as "Arabs" in lengthy interviews after his arrest Saturday, an investigator said. He may have shot Russian-born laundry manager Albert Kotlyar because he believed Kotlyar "disrespected" him by asking him to leave the business on March 10, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said. Gee, with an attitude like yours, Larme, I wonder why Mr. Kotlyar took a dislike to you?
Kotlyar, 32, became the third victim of a killer who entered businesses in the morning and without provocation shot men inside at point-blank range. But Kotlyar's sister questioned the motive police offered. "I don't think he was looking for Middle Eastern people. I don't believe that to be true at all. Thrill killing is what they called it, and I think he was just killing whoever," said Eleonora Kotlyar, 24, who added that her brother had become an American citizen after moving to the U.S. as a child.
Posted by: Patrick Phillips ||
03/31/2003 10:06 am ||
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#1
They most definitely have the death penalty in New York. The DA in the borough just has to have the balls to push for it. A lot of them don't.
#2
I'd say send this fellow over to Palestine and let him explain it to the Hamas and other various and sundry terrorist organizations - after all they use the same logic. Save us the expense of a trial and execution.
News flash on Lucianne Goldberg's site -- haven't seen it anywhere else yet. Grain of salt applies, but her media sources have been pretty good in the past.
NBC fires Peter Arnett for remarks on Iraqi TV. Arnett apologizes. Says he will leave Baghdad immediately.
FoxNews sez Petey sez he gave the interview as "a professional courtesy" and didn't say what he said. He doesn't say what he did say. Since it's on tape, we can probably check...
Posted by: jrosevear ||
03/31/2003 06:55 am ||
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#1
Lying about a "failed first plan" is certainly not truth. No such first plan has failed -- on the contrary, the Coalition has achieved objectives that no army ever managed so quickly and with so few casualties. It constitutes treason because he is supporting the enemy as well as encouraging them to keep killing civilians and Coalition soldiers instead of unconditional surrender.
(Note: I will no longer answer trolls and/or jihadi nuts.)
#6
Murat, his remarks weren't anything like "truth" and you know it. Further, his remarks may end up getting a lot of civilians killed -- if he has undermined the Iraqi peoples' confidence that the coalition will see this through to completion, he will have had the effect of putting off the inevitable capitulation and thus prolonged the war. It's not necessarily treason, but it is hard to see how this is a good thing.
#7
Lying about a "failed first plan" is certainly not truth. No such first plan has failed -- on the contrary, the Coalition has achieved objectives that no army ever managed so quickly and with so few casualties. It constitutes treason because he is supporting the enemy as well as encouraging them to keep killing civilians and Coalition soldiers instead of unconditional surrender.
(Note: I will no longer answer trolls and/or jihadi nuts.)
#8
I heard the comments and wasn't surprised given his history. He made a comment about people in the U.S. losing support for the war - how could he know, being in Baghdad? Basically, he was doing to Sammy what Monica did to Bill.
#11
I'm so damn sick of all this blather about the "plan". Everybody knows that no plan in war remains fixed and static, because nobody knows exactly what the enemy is going to do. It's not a "plan", per se, but a guideline or an outlook, and it will be changed and updated as circumstances dictate.
Arnett is a weasel, and his big "scoop" on the use of nerve gas in Laos by the Americans during the Vietname War was just one indication of how low he'll stoop in his pursuit of self-glorification.
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg ||
03/31/2003 8:23 Comments ||
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#12
In Arnett's phony "apology", his comment about "professional courtesy" has been getting the short shrift as far as I'm concerned. Does Petah Arnett consider the Iraqi Ministry of Information a legitimate journalistic operation? Obviously yes! Arnett considers what he does to be the equivalent to what Saddam's propagandists do. From his comments, that is also true. He's following the line set down by the Baathists. Arnett also claims that his reports were propaganda designed to help the 'antiwar' forces in the States and to increase the opposition to President Bush. Arnett is delusional that opposition is increasing in the States or Great Britain or Australia or even in Canada or France.
#13
"Baby Milk" Arnett sez on Iraqi TV: "Our reports about civilian casualties here, about the resistance of the Iraqi forces, are going back to the United States. It helps those who oppose the war when you challenge the policy to develop their arguments."
Message: Show more dead civilians and the Americans lose. Of course if you don't have enough dead civilians to show you better produce some more. Do the math...
That's not just treason that's incitement to kill innocent people.
Maybe the RG can use him as a civilian human shield. If the word "human" still applies...
#14
Did Arnett let his NBC bosses know he was going to be interviewed by Iraqi TV? If not, then this alone is enough to get him fired. Giving a heads-up to the one above you is SOP in any organization that is in the public eye (or for that matter, not in the public eye) I guess Petah didn't take MGT 101 in his younger days. But at the same time, he probably felt quite insulated from a sacking given that he is Peter Arnett, and has pretty much had his way with his previous bosses.
As to what he said, it's not that terribly different from what has been on the Big Boy networks. Just understand, dummy, don't be a stool for Iraqi TV, whose satellite TV service was on this morning around 6:30 AM, Chicago time.
BTW, Michael Moore's Oscar speech is being played these days on the Syrian satellite channel with martial music in the background and all. All presented to show us as engaging in an Unjust War. After all, if M.M., an American renowned movie maker, says it's wrong, well, it must be wrong!!!
Posted by: Michael ||
03/31/2003 10:04 Comments ||
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Rumors are that even the newly-persuaded far-left National Geographic has fired him. Also, Geraldo has been booted for "gross indiscretion" about future operations of the unit he was embedded with. Looks like there may be a number of job openings in the broadcast industry.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/31/2003 10:23 Comments ||
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Not true about Geraldo. I saw him at 11:40 AM EST, a group of 101st "Screaming Eagles" around him. At the end of his broadcast, he explicitly addressed the rumor of his booting, and all the soldiers laughed or grinned, obviously in great spirits. The commentator in the States said, "There you have it. Geraldo's still in Iraq."
It's probably someone feeding a line to Druge, in a desperate stab at moral equivalence: Geraldo said "This unit's going to Baghdad." Nothing more specific....
#18
Yes, let us return to those wonderful days of radio with William "Lord Haw Haw" Joyce and Ikuko "Tokyo Rose a.k.a Orphan Ann" Toguri. The former swung at the end of an English rope. The latter just did time.
Maybe in thirty years Arnet can ask for a pardon as well.
Posted by: Don ||
03/31/2003 12:37 Comments ||
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#19
Y'know, the embarrassing thing about that last comment by Don is that "Lord Haw-Haw" was, sadly,
American by birth. Born in the US, raised in Ireland and England, he turned on us all like a rabid dog. Why is it that those who hate the Anglosphere the most tend to be from it?
Ed
Posted by: Ed Becerra ||
03/31/2003 16:57 Comments ||
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#20
Hey dont worry about Peter Arnett.Rumor has it Al-Jezeera TV is considering hiring him.Rumor also has it, he will fit in there, very well.Unfortunately part of their contract states that after the War is over, they will have to kill him just for being a westerner "infidel"
.........He's Thinking about it.......
Posted by: True American ||
03/31/2003 17:11 Comments ||
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#21
Maybe he will be available for that al-Jazeera gig. He just got fired by National Geographic, too....
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
03/31/2003 17:41 Comments ||
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#22
PMSNBC still hasn't let the Geraldo thing go. They had a "What's worse?" tidbit comparing Geraldo and Bin-Arnett at about 8:20pm EST. At least they fuzzed out Geraldo's map. Appearently his sand cartography is so good that it can still give away positions after everybody is gone. I'm looking forward to seeing them make a hard turn in the near future, I just haven't figured out which way it's going to be yet.
Posted by: Mike N ||
03/31/2003 19:44 Comments ||
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The United States says a key nuclear installation in Pakistan has been helping another country in its programme of weapons of mass destruction. A spokeswoman at the US embassy in Islamabad refused to name the country involved. The US says it has imposed sanctions on the installation, a nuclear enrichment facility. But it has not given details of them. Pakistan has strongly criticised the move, although it says it will not affect relations between the two countries. The installation at the centre of the dispute is the Kahuta Research Laboratories (KRL) near the capital, Islamabad. It's time to start calling a spade a spade. Apart from Kuwait, we don't really have any Muslim allies.
Pakistan, a key partner in the U.S.-led war on terror, will declare Al Qaeda a terrorist organization so it can prosecute low-level followers of the group, the interior minister said Monday. Pakistan had not named Al Qaeda a terrorist group previously because the shadowy organization is not based there. But many Al Qaeda operatives are believed to be in Pakistan and the government wants to have the legal means to bring them and their supporters to court. Those targets include people who have harbored Al Qaeda fugitives but have not committed terrorist acts themselves.
Interior Minister Faisal Saleh Hayyat announced the plan after returning from talks in France, Algeria and Egypt. He said France agreed to train Pakistani agents, and all three countries agreed to share intelligence with Pakistan. "Practically, and by all means, Al Qaeda is a terrorist organization, but we want to formally declare it so to avoid some legal complications," said Brig. Javed Iqbal Cheema, Pakistan's intelligence coordinator in the war on terror. "This decision will help prosecutors get those people punished whose cases are pending in the courts for hiding Al Qaeda men."
An unknown number of Arabs and other supporters who fought with Al Qaeda in Afghanistan fled across the border into Pakistan after the U.S.-led coalition ousted the Taliban regime in late 2001. Pakistan has surrendered more than 400 suspected Al Qaeda operatives to the United States, including two top lieutenants of Usama bin Laden. In 2002, Pakistan, under U.S. pressure to ease tensions with neighboring India, outlawed two anti-Indian militant groups and three radical Islamic organizations. Hayyat said he also signed an agreement in Algiers to extradite some Algerians suspected of having Al Qaeda links.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 07:30 pm ||
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At least 12 people were killed and 15 others injured when armed men in southern Pakistan attacked a village of rival tribe on Monday, Interior Minister Faisal Saleh Hayat said. Hayat told a news conference in Islamabad that the attackers, wearing uniform of paramilitary rangers, attacked the rival tribe in Kashmor area in Sindh province. Fighting between Bugti and Mazariprimitives tribes has been raging for decades in an area where the borders of the Punjab, Sindh and Balochistan province meet. Reports from the area suggest that eight people were kidnapped in the attack on Kashmor by some 35 men armed with automatic weapons, including rockets. Saleh Hayat said that the para-military force and police have been put on alert to maintain peace as retaliation from the rival is imminent. According to reports the armed men attacked the house of a Mazari tribe leader Ghulam Hussain Mazari and later targeted other members of the Mazari tribe. Local correspondents say that the tribes have a decades long feud and incidents of violence take place time to time under different excuses. "Hey, Mahmoud! Wanna go pot some Mazaris?"
"I dunno. Do we have an excuse?"
"It's Monday."
"I'll get my gun!"
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 10:09 am ||
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Well, lets see. Isn't this about where Europe was in the 1200's and 1300's? Too bad their weaponry doesn't match their social development. Then they would be using clubs instead of AK-47's.
At least four policemen were killed in an encounter with an absconder in the eastern Punjab province on Sunday, a senior police officer said. A police party raided a house in the town of Wazirabad to arrest a wanted man Mohammad Ishtiaq but the accused opened fire on the police, deputy inspector general police Malik Mohammad Iqbal said. Four policemen, including local police station head and his deputy, were killed in the encounter and the accused succeeded to flee after the shooting. Iqbal said the police have launched a vigorous drive to arrest the accused. Police said Ishtiaq is wanted in seven murder cases. He sounds very devout...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 09:50 am ||
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Trading fire with Iraqis hidden behind brick walls and hedges, U.S. Army forces spearheading the drive on Baghdad battled their way into Hindiyah, 50 miles from the capital Monday and captured dozens of members of Saddam Hussein's vaunted Republican Guard. The street-by-street fighting at the key Euphrates River crossing was the war's closest known battle to Baghdad. At least 35 Iraqi troops were reported killed and dozens captured in the fighting. The prisoners told the Americans they belonged to the guard's Nebuchadnezzar Brigade, based in Saddam's home area of Tikrit, and they had the guard's triangular insignia. One U.S. soldier was wounded in the leg.
An armored unit of the 3rd Infantry Division rolled into the town of 80,000 at dawn and was met quickly by small arms fire and rocket propelled grenades from Iraqis hiding behind hedges and brick walls. On the southeast side of a 200-yard concrete and steel bridge across the dark-green Euphrates, the U.S. soldiers took up positions in abandoned bunkers and sandbags and traded fire with Iraqis on the other side. As the Americans began to cross the bridge, Iraqi troops tried to block it with civilian cars. A dark blue car attempted to race across the bridge toward U.S. forces but was hit with heavy machine gun fire, which stopped it in the middle.
Iraqi forces in civilian clothes with blue or red kaffiyahs wrapped around their heads and faces scrambled between buildings, trying to sneak up on U.S. troops. Americans in tanks and Bradley fighting vehicles fired back with heavy machine guns and 25mm cannon. Leading to the bridge was a broad boulevard with wide sidewalks dotted with cafes. Portraits of Saddam had been erected along the street every 100 yards. "This must have been important to him (Saddam) to send down one of his Republican Guard brigades," said U.S. brigade commander Col. David Perkins.
Looking across the river, he noted that Iraqis were firing rocket-propelled grenades from the reeds, and told a company commander: "Let's put some artillery in there." Within minutes, 155mm artillery shells whistled overhead, falling along the far side of the river, sending plumes of water into the air.
In another part of the city, a tank company attacked a bunker and killed 20 Iraqi troops and captured a dozen more in a different part of the city, according to reports from the field. At the Hindiyah police station, U.S. soldiers used shotguns to open a locked door and stormed the building. Intelligence officers rifled through the desks. Troops found maps with fighting positions marked out and organizational charts. Three Iraqi men were in the station's jail cells. They told U.S. soldiers they had not eaten for three days. A company commander gave them field rations, and the soldiers looked for the keys to the cells.
At one point, U.S. soldiers spotted an elderly woman in black chador, lying wounded in the middle of the bridge. Using his Bradley fighting vehicle for cover, company commander Capt. Chris Carter of Watkinsville, Ga., ran out to center of the bridge, saw that she needed urgent help and called for an armored ambulance to take her to an aid station. He used his M-16 rifle to provide cover while the medics put her on a stretcher. Carter then returned to the U.S. side of the bridge.
One wounded on our side. Carnage on the other. Disciplined, well-trained use of well thought-out tactics on our side, civilian clothed masked marauders on theirs. How come the press always refers to the Republican Guard as "elite" troops and sometimes even forget to mention the 3ID's unit designator? Guess which ones I'd call "elite"?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 08:00 pm ||
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U.S. troops shot and killed at least seven Iraqi civilians — some of them children — in a vehicle at checkpoint Monday in southern Iraq when the driver did not stop as ordered, U.S. Central Command said. The soldiers involved were from the 3rd Infantry Division, the same unit that lost four soldiers Saturday at another checkpoint when an Iraqi soldier dressed as a civilian detonated a car bomb. On Monday, the vehicle approached the U.S. Army checkpoint at about 4:30 p.m. Soldiers motioned for the driver to stop but were ignored, the Central Command said. They fired warning shots, which also were ignored, the U.S. military said. Troops then shot into the vehicle's engine, but the driver continued toward the checkpoint. As a last resort, the military statement said, soldiers fired into the passenger compartment. That sounds like exactly what they're supposed to do...
The statement said a total of 13 women and children were in the van. But The Washington Post, whose reporter is embedded with the 3rd Infantry, said 15 passengers were in the van and 10 were killed, five of them children who appeared to be younger than age 5. One of the wounded was a man not expected to live, the Post reported on its Web site. The newspaper described the vehicle as a four-wheel-drive Toyota crammed with the Iraqis' personal belongings. Could have been dynamite...
Central Command said initial reports indicated the soldiers followed the rules of engagement to protect themselves. "In light of recent terrorist attacks by the Iraqi regime, the soldiers exercised considerable restraint to avoid the unnecessary loss of life," the statement said. I agree, even though they'll all probably spend the rest of their lives agonizing over the incident.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 07:37 pm ||
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#1
This sucks. I suppose the "don't do anything to alarm the Americans" message will eventually get through to the Iraqis. But I'm not comfortable with the pricetag.
Posted by: Patrick Phillips ||
03/31/2003 20:34 Comments ||
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#2
This is truly sad. Its the payoff Saddam was looking for. Any info as to why they didnt stop? People firing automatic rifles in my direction is usually a pretty good indication that Im doing something I should be a bit more observant about. Then again, deliberately driving thru a red light at a busy intersection has produced similar casualties.
My first question would be: Was there a gun to the driver's head?
As for the dead - it plain sucks, we are supposed to be liberating them, not freeing them fromthis mortal coil. Of the survivors, its the troops I feel for. They are going to never forget that they killed a kid, no matter how correct their actions were given the circumstances.
#3
Patrick, I'm not happy with the pricetag either. I hope nobody is. But I was even less happy with the price 4 dead Anericans paid yesterday in a similar situation.
#4
This had nothing to do with any choices made by our soldiers. This was intended to happen. This was the result of Saddam's death squads loading those women and children into that van knowing exactly what had to be done to make US troops open fire on them. This was planned for propaganda purposes. This was deliberate on the part of the driver.
Posted by: Tom Schaller ||
04/01/2003 0:00 Comments ||
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... a logical result of Arnett saying that dead civilians helps the 'anti-war' types.
Screw nailing him with treason, hit him with war crimes.
TWO Kenyan truck drivers feared dead after being captured by Iraqi forces and shown on television have been rescued by British troops near a southern Iraqi town. David Mukaria and Jakubu Kamau had been gagged and blindfolded, and repeatedly listened to their captors discuss whether they should be allowed to live. "I remember seeing a man with his finger on the pin of a grenade as they argued about whether they would kill us or not," said Kamau, a 37-year-old from Nairobi. "I was sure we were going to die."
The pair were ambushed by 20 Iraqi guerrillas, and were shown on the Arabic satellite network Al-Jazeera in the same broadcast that displayed the bodies of two dead British soldiers. They had been contracted to carry food and supplies for the US military, they said. Mukaria, 53, said: "They (the Iraqis) had guns and weapons but wore civilian clothes and we couldn't believe they kidnapped us when we were trying to deliver food and water to them. Every minute was terrifying."
British troops from the Black Watch regiment today burst into an abandoned school near Al-Zubayr where the pair were being held after getting a tip-off from local townspeople. Corporal Stewart Robson, who took part in the rescue, said: "We knew nothing about the two missing aid workers until we were told to go and get them after getting a tip-off on their location. The Iraqis had gone by the time we got there." The pair said they thought their Iraqi captors had fled two days before.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 07:07 pm ||
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RELATIVES of Saddam Hussein have been trying to flee Iraq, the US Defence Department has suggested. Pentagon spokeswoman Victoria Clarke said US intelligence had seen "neither hide nor hair" of the Iraqi President or his two sons since bombing raids on his compound on the first day of the war. But she added: "We have seen evidence that family members are fleeing the country, or trying to flee the country." Pressed on the issue, Clarke would only say: "We have seen some reports recently â and I'll just leave it at that â that some family members, including family members of very senior officials, are trying to get out of the country."
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 07:02 pm ||
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#1
This is less optimistic. Apparantly the CIA has given up on turning any big Iraqi fish. Hatred of America trumps opportunism even for these slugs.
#2
Sounds like rats leaving a sinking ship. Or like the Nazi top brass drafting children to die a glorious death for the fatherland while they planned their escape to South America.
THREE US troops were wounded, one seriously, after Iraqi soldiers used a Red Crescent ambulance to stage an attack in southern Iraq, a US Air Force source has said. The Iraqi troops opened fire on a group of American soldiers who had approached the ambulance at a town north of Nasiriyah, the source said. The seriously injured soldier would be evacuated, while two others were undergoing surgery at a captured air base, the source added. The Red Crescent, the Muslim equivalent of the Red Cross, has been delivering aid to impoverished locals in territory in southern Iraq which has been captured by the US-led coalition. Sounds like pure Paleotactics, doesn't it?
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 06:59 pm ||
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#1
Paleotactics? Sounds like they're getting pretty creative to me. Although, the end result may not work to their favor if we start treating ambulances as combat vehicles and hospitals as bunkers. But by playing us for the sweethearts or saps that we are, they're getting the last laugh (before we kill them, of course).
Posted by: Matt ||
03/31/2003 21:08 Comments ||
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I'm sure behind every women a child,there hinds a cowardly Iraqi terrorist.
International law prohibits attacking, killing, injuring, capturing or deceiving the enemy by resorting to what is called perfidy. A perfidious attack is one launched by combatants who have led opposing forces to believe that the attackers are really noncombatants. Acts of perfidy include pretending to be a civilian (who cannot be attacked) or feigning surrender (surrendering soldiers also cannot be attacked) so that opposing forces will let down their guard at the moment of attack. Other examples include feigning protective status by the misuse of emblems of the United Nations or the red cross and red crescent.
Attacks carried out by openly armed belligerents in civilian clothes, with no attempt to feign civilian status, do not constitute perfidy. Suicidal attacks by undisguised military forces, exemplified by Japanese kamikaze attacks during World War II, are not a violation of the laws of war.
Perfidy is distinguished from ruses of war, such as mock operations, misinformation, surprises, ambushes, or the use of camouflage or decoy. Ruses are permissible acts of warfare intended to trick the enemy; they do not violate international law to the extent that they do not depend on taking advantage of an enemyâs willingness to abide by the law protecting noncombatants. "Perfidious." Sounds like a word we ought to be using in connection with Sammy more often.
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/31/2003 06:51 pm ||
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#1
At some point, we're going to need to ask for help from the Iraqi people, before Saddam kills them all.
#2
HRW is trying to salvage their reputation. It's too obvious to scream about US "atrocities" while totally and completely ignoring Iraqi atrocities. They'll shift their coverage from 10 to 0, to something like 9 to 1 to feign legitimacy.
Don't fall for this. They need to be pushed on other issues.
Iraqi Information Minister Mohamed Said al-Sahhaf on Monday denied reports that the city of Nassiriya had fallen,saying the invading forces have captured only part of the city. Al-Sahhaf said Iraqi forces destroyed 13 tanks, eight personnel carriers, six armored vehicles, four apache helicopters and two unmanned planes of the US forces. He said Iraqis had also killed four US and British servicemen. He added that Iraqi forces, especially Saddam Hussein's Fadayeen will continue resisting the aggressors overnight and relentlessly. So we control at least part of it...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 06:41 pm ||
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#1
Why stop there,I'm sure they knocked out a battleship,a light carrier and two cruisers.
And Lord knows, there's been a shortage of first class Fiery Abuse on Rantburg lately.
While Iraqi troops fight U.S. and British forces in the field, the Baghdad government is digging deep in the lexicon of Arabic insults for verbal salvoes to lob at the "evil invaders."
"My mother's moustache is bigger'n yo'rn!"
Following the rich literary tradition of their country, Iraqi officials from President Saddam Hussein to Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf have regularly taken to the airwaves to lambaste their U.S. and British foes with fiery rhetoric and vitriolic broadsides.
Mmmmm! Vitriol!
Since the war on Iraq started 10 days ago, the leaders of the United States and Britain have been branded "an international gang of criminal bastards," "blood-sucking bastards," ignorant imperialists, losers and fools. The U.S. and British forces invading Iraq have also not been spared. In briefings by Sahaf, the troops are often referred to as flocks of sheep doomed to die in Iraq or as a snake slithering through the desert.
"Yeah! An' their mothers are so-o-o-o-o fat, to haul ass, they gotta make two trips!"
Hurling insults at the enemy is common in the Arab world but the practice is vintage Saddam, who portrays himself as a valiant Arab crusader fighting off an evil empire. Saddam has referred to President Bush as the "reckless, little Bush" to distinguish him from his father, Bush senior, who in 1991 led the international coalition that ended Iraq's occupation of neighboring Kuwait. Long after that Gulf War, a painting depicting the face of the "criminal" George Bush still lies at the entrance of Baghdad's busy al-Rasheed Hotel for visitors to trample on.
Long after the Gulf War, Sammy was an object of ridicule in military circles...
Iraq has also directed its verbal abuse at Arab countries that host U.S. and British troops. Kuwait, a launchpad for this invasion, has borne the brunt of this attack and its leaders have been called "jackasses of colonization."
They don't really make it into the KCNA category, though. Probably not enough practice. "Running dog lackeys of international hegemonism" just kinda rolls off the NKor tongue. Arabs can't handle it, perhaps because of the weight of those scraggly-assed moustaches on the upper lip...
The Iraqi insults contrast sharply with the relatively sedate labels of "terrorist" and "dictator" that Bush and Blair have given Saddam. The Iraqi leader's jingoism, however, has made its way into the American and British lexicon. Saddam called the 1991 Gulf War the "mother of all battles" and the U.S. military has adopted the term to describe their massive air ordnance as the "mother of all bombs." This time round, Saddam's name for the war â "the decisive battle" â does not seem to be as popular. That's the best they can do with their "rich literary tradition"? Hell, the North Korean Girl Scouts can do better with one hand chained behind their backs!
But the "mother of all..." thang has entered the lexicon. I even heard of the "Mother of All Burgers" at one point.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/31/2003 01:40 pm ||
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#1
Homer Simpson is sleeping with your wife, Yankee Infidel Dog!!!
#2
You know the war's going well when sadsack hasbeen can't even get up the energy to make a really NASTY verbal attack on the "forces of evil". Maybe that's because too many people know that the "forces of evil" are his fellow snakes.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/31/2003 14:07 Comments ||
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Homer responds: mmmmm, sleep!
Posted by: Frank Martin ||
03/31/2003 14:27 Comments ||
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He forgot to call us "arrogant cowboys"!
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
03/31/2003 14:34 Comments ||
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I rather suspect that the Iraqis are recycling old Sammy invective, since he's not in any shape to conjure up new insults. Sort of like old "Tonight Show" re-runs.
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/31/2003 14:36 Comments ||
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Reminds me of the line for Aliens, when told to not fire their main weapons, the Marine sarcastic retort was "What the hell are we supposed to use man, harsh language?"
Or Monty Python's Frenchmen: "Now Go Away or I shall Taunt you a Second Time!"
#13
Noting can touch the ultimate cold war epithet coined by the Chinese and their surrogates in North Vietnam: "Running dog yankee imperialists" Man, that one used to really smart! Next to that, the current blather from the terrified morons in Baghdad pales in comparison.
#14
Old Spook and Tadderly: don't forget "your mother was a hamster!" ;)
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
03/31/2003 17:59 Comments ||
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I've got some really good ones, but if I gave them out I would be accused of giving aid and comfort to the enemy. All of our suggested invectives on ourselves would be seen as what they are---borrowed from the Coalition of the Willing and not original material.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
03/31/2003 19:12 Comments ||
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A friend of mine in Germany had the perfect comeback to "your momma wears combat boots":
"Yeah, and they have half-inch spikes in the sole - but I see you've already found out."
DON'T get into a cutting contest with a bunch of old warriors...
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/31/2003 19:16 Comments ||
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Marine and Navy explosive ordnance disposal experts are continuing to ensure that roughly 1,400 oil wells in southern Iraq have not been rigged for explosives by fleeing Iraqi soldiers. So far, EOD experts say they have found very few of the wells damaged or booby-trapped, despite ominous warnings from top U.S. officials that the oil fields, which will be crucial to providing funds for rebuilding Iraq, had been wired for destruction. âI donât really know why [there werenât more booby traps],â said Marine Maj. Jorge Lizarralde, the officer in charge of the teams that are methodically working their way through the oil fields. The field is roughly the size of the state of New Jersey, and Lizarraldeâs crews are about half done. âItâs not hard to do if you know what youâre doing.â
Lizarralde said no booby traps were found and only two wells were discovered with âfire wire and detonators.â For some reason, he said, the explosives were unsuccessful. Coalition forces found just nine fires and only seven wells were ignited. The other two blazes were at small utility buildings. On Saturday, just three wells were still been burning, and by the end of the day one of those was extinguished. The EOD teams are moving in before the firefighting and engineering teams, Lizarralde said, and they also scan the area for any land mines. Lizarralde said his crews have found only a handful of mines, which were Italian- or Czech-made. He could not determine when they had been placed, he said.
Helping control the situation are roughly 100 soldiers attached to the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, said Army Brig. Gen. Robert Crear, commanding general of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Southwestern Division, who was at the scene of the fires Saturday. Most of the soldiers are reservists who had their names culled from individuals who already were working in the oil industry, Crear said. âWe got some real experts,â he said. A hand-picked team of reservists from the oil patch. Somebody was thinking ahead.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/31/2003 12:57 pm ||
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Long article, edited for topic:
Iraqi commanders are pulling troops out of the north of the country to back up Republican Guard units crippled by days of U.S. attacks in the south, defense officials said Monday. And American forces are doing what one senior Pentagon official called "aggressive armed reconnaissance" in a number of areas rimming the southern approaches to Baghdad in what could be a prelude to the battle for the capital. A number of units have been sent on probing missions forward of fighting positions to assess Iraqi troop strength and cut Iraqi forces off where they can, two Defense Department officials said. Officials discussed this only on condition of anonymity. A week of heavy bombing has left some of Iraq's Republican Guard units surrounding Baghdad at less than half strength, with the Medina and Baghdad divisions the most severely degraded, Pentagon officials said. The military also was tracking five Guard brigades, including two infantry, seen on the move last week. It was not exactly clear how they were repositioning themselves, though some Iraqis captured south of Baghdad were reported wearing the arm patches of the Nebuchadnezzar Division, which was supposed to have been guarding cities in the north. This has led defense officials to believe reinforcements have been sent from the north to bolster the degraded southern Guard units. Officials said other Iraqi units have been seen pulling back, closer to Baghdad. That's right, Sammy. (or should I say, to whom it may concern) We're running out of supplies, we don't have enough troops, we're stalled in place. Just keep feeding those troops into the meatgrinder, er, front, and you'll win. Heh, heh.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/31/2003 12:03 pm ||
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#1
Running out of supplies, jeesh, after what we did for Berlin and they think we can't supply our own troops?
#2
I hope they keep sending them in to "reinforce" depleted units. Weakens the north (just where do you think the 101 is going to end up once the 4th ID takes its place in the center - and look where the H1 airfield is for a clue), and essentially send his most loyal and capable troops into the kill box thats grinding up the other divisions, where they will be tactically fixed into place by coalition ground forces, operationally frozen by interdiciton, and degraded by airpower.
#3
Supply problems always develop in warfare, especially when the frontline gets pushed deep into enemy territory at an incredible rate. Patton experienced the same basic sort of situation in WW2 as his units advanced faster than their supply could keep up. This is essentially no different.
You have massive traffic jams, enemy guerilla activity, fighting still occurring in the southern areas where the supply lines have to go through - and a frontline being pushed forward faster than at any other time in history (250+ miles in under 6 days; that's gotta' be a record). Of course there are going to be supply problems. Let's just hope that the Medina, Nebudkhednezzar, and Hammurabbi divisions are suffering worse problems (like massive casualties, inability to move without revealing themselves for more casualty-inflicting, inability to coordinate or contact frontline units for sitreps, etc., and inability to supply their troops with the basics of combat like ammo, food, and water; I doubt the Iraqi's are having a real good "day" the last week or two themselves).
#4
This is great news. I wouldn't want to be an Iraqi general right about now. The options available to them have dwindled. Iraq's forces in the north are being steadily degraded by airpower and are being cannibalized to meet the immediate threat in the south. All the while we are building a larger presence in the north.
North or south, if they stay in place, they will suffer constant bombardment until there is nothing of value left to hit. If they move, they will be obliterated. My guess is that they will take an incredible pounding for a short while before concluding that they must go on the offensive or risk being turned into non-mechanized infantry divisions with no heavy weapons at all. At this point, in their already degraded state, they will attempt to take the initiative, perhaps at night, with a bold and suicidal counter-offensive that will ultimately evaporate under coalition firepower.
They really have zero decent options at this point. Stay in place, get atritted to nothing. counterattack, die. Let's see how it plays out.
The start of the battle of Baghdad has been delayed for at least a week, due to the early misuse of airpower by the U.S., say active and retired Air Force officials. Only after five days of war did air strikes begin to focus on attacking enemy ground forces, particularly the better armed and organized Republican Guard units. During the 1991 offensive against Iraq, ground forces were softened up by a month of bombing beforehand. This time, close air support intensified only after U.S. ground forces--after moving 220 of the 300 mi. to Baghdad--lost their momentum... This article might be monday morning QBing and inter-service squabbling, but at least it's written by a real defense pub.
...Placement of the fire support coordination line (inside of which strike aircraft activity is severely limited) has been pointed to as a problem, possibly a blunder. It was set so far in front of the attacking U.S. troops that for a while fixed-wing aircraft weren't able to focus on methodically destroying the Iraqi ground troops, said the senior planner. Close air support tasks were left instead to attack helicopter units that operate at low speeds and altitudes, making them vulnerable to concentrated small arms and light antiaircraft artillery fire. "The helicopters were being shot to pieces because they're flying where everybody on the battlefield can hit them," he said. "For a long time Army aviators have believed that they can fly nape of the Earth and survive [that kind of fire]. What we should have done is taken the oil fields around Basra and then let everybody sit for a couple of weeks while Air Force and Navy tactical air pounded the Iraqi ground forces..." Echoing some of Fred's criticisms of Westmoreland Franks. Still, not all bad news.
Posted by: JAB ||
03/31/2003 11:52 am ||
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#1
The FSCL is not THAT limiting--it just means that you can't attack anything inside the FSCL without clearing it with your friendly forces. This sort of coordination frequently, but not always, rules out a fast mover seeing a target of opportunity inside the FSCL and dropping bombs on it, but it doesn't rule out dropping bombs on a pre-planned (and thus already coordinated) target.
I think the problem is really the Air Force, who sees CAS (close air support) in a different light than the Navy/Marine Corps team. The Marines practice CAS all the time and sometime get to attack targets beyond the FSCL, whereas the AF practices "strategic" bombing and sometimes get to practice CAS with the Army.
#2
I'm retired Air Force, and this sounds like sour grapes to me. "You promised us we'd be able to defeat Saddam from the air, and now you're sending in ground troops before we had a chance."
Franks said he wasn't going to fight this battle using outmoded models, that he was going to introduce the element of surprise into the war from the very beginning. It's working, and will probably continue to work until there's nothing left but to take Baghdad with ground troops.
I don't care how the war is fought, or who gets the glory, as long as in the end we nail Saddam and end his torturous regime.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/31/2003 12:43 Comments ||
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I agree with that - the Airforce has for years been trying to get rid of the grunts best flying USAF friend - the A-10. Thank goodness they haven't succeeded. Those were great to see when I was over there the last time.
As for the Army Helis - they were supposed to be the part of a doctrine: air and ground recon (Thats Cav Scouts on the ground) find the baddies, Helis throw hellfires on the AA assets spotted and designated by the scouts, then the AF come in with A-10's bombing and strafing. After that the Cavalry Scouts bypass to move deeper into the enemy rear to find the next set of victims while the helis work over the survivors to provide cover, and finally the grunts move in to sift the rubble after the artillery has pounded it.
My bet: Some dummy got the idea that the helicopters could do it all themselves and go on Air Raids. Not A Good Idea without prior supression.
In my opinion, as a former Cav scout NCO, its about as stupid as charging into an urban area with tanks and no infantry support - a recipe for disaster.
Bad use of the unit and equipment in contravention to the doctrinal role they were designed and trained to fill.
#5
It was never Coalition policy to make a Bee-line to Baghdad. Their objectives were: capture an airbase in Western Iraq; secure the oil ports and oil fields of southern Iraq; encircle all the southern and central Iraq cities; reach the outskirts of Baghdad. And do all the above while attacking command and communication centers, weapons stores and production facilities, military bases, mobile and fixed equipment, and troops.
#6
I agree with Anonon. There were key terroritorial objectives: airfields, main highway and bridges over the Euphrates, Umm Qasr port -- that were essential to supplying forward troops, eliminating much of the WMD threat, and disrupting the regime's ability to communicate and coordinate. The danger of leaving ground troops concentrated in Kuwait and doing a leisurely bombing was too great. Saddam could have done a lot of damage that he's no longer capable of.
#7
FOTSGreg, A-10s are still doing great service with AF. Marines have Harriers and F-18s. AF was trying to phase them out up to GW1. Thay did such a good job the Army told the JCS and Congress that if the AF didn't want them, the Army would take them. The AF was still trying up until Afghanistan, they did such a good job there that I think they gave up and are upgrading them. There will be a big shakeout in AF requirements after GW2. I think that the "Fighter Mafia" will lose their hold on AF leadership and it will swing back to the "Bomber Boys" and attack planes like the A-10. They sure won't get as many F-22s as they wanted.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/31/2003 14:26 Comments ||
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#8
Just as an aside - Harriers. Wow. Leave it to the British to develop a jet that curtsies. *grin*
#9
FOTSGreg - The problem with the A-10 isn't so much with the plane as it is with the Air Force's perception of it.
The AF suffers from a long term case of HFKoTS disease. That stands for Higher! Faster! Knights of the SKY!
It's sad, but the AF has an obsession with conducting aerial combat as it was in the first world war.. honorable, knightly combat between individuals. They fight to keep it that way, even when it's no longer practical. Bomber pilots are referred to (when they think no one's evesdropping) as "those dirty truckdrivers". Promotions tend to be channeled by giving extra promotion points to fighter pilots (or former fighter pilots), and points denied to ground support or bomber pilots.
The Air Force doesn't want to share the "glory of the air", yet at the same time doesn't want to do the necessary - yet grubby - job of close ground support, as it isn't seen as glamorous.
Hell, they even fought to keep helicopters out of the Army's hands.
*shrugs* The AF's attitude is that ground support isn't _really_ needed, and that mudfoot soldiers who whine to be supported from the air are just being cowardly snivellers who don't have the courage to "charge the guns" in the fashion of the Light Brigade. (Whom, interestingly enough, the Fighter Pilot Mafia in the AF admires. After all, it was so NOBLE to charge the guns that way. *sigh* God deliver me from knightly idiots.)
Ed
Posted by: Ed Becerra ||
03/31/2003 17:18 Comments ||
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#10
This has been a wonderful plan so far(no thanks to Turkey).Weve got the majority of southern Iraq under control.Were in the process of clearing out the thin resistance to our supply line(s),in the meantime resupplying our troops that are on the doorstep of Bagdad.In the coming days,we'll bulk up our 101st in the north with an armored division and have that mother of all sh@t holes completely surronded.Most oil wells are contained and guarded, air bases in the north and south are functional and being used for sorties.
All in ten days,with the loss of life even lower than the first go round.And you got people still second guessing are brass. good show
Edited Buried deep within the usual, "the sky is falling and it's all George Bush's fault" was this little golden nugget.
Now, Bush officials are weighing ways to undo the damage. Overtures are being made to France, Germany, and Russia as U.S. diplomats look for areas of agreement. One way to smooth differences will be to offer trade concessions and a stake in Iraqi reconstruction for some of the war holdouts. Administration officials "clearly don't want to make [rebuilding] a unilateral effort," says Richard H. Solomon, president of the U.S. Institute of Peace.
Ha ha...notice there is no mention of France. That Russia and Germany have decided to come back to eat at the table, is a very good sign. It says much about the expected outcome of the war and anticipated future relations with our fair-weather friends.
Posted by: Becky ||
03/31/2003 11:06 am ||
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#1
Ooops...not sure why I didn't read "France". Maybe it was just wishful thinking that caused the word to be blocked from my vision!
#2
If Dubya wants to be a one-term president like his daddy, this is a sure fire way of ensuring it. I don't think the American people will forget how our "allies" the French acted before the war. The Germans and Russians might get off easier, but no way will the French be forgiven by America for a damn long time.
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
03/31/2003 11:54 Comments ||
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#3
US Diplomats. How do we know that State is going renegade again?
Besides, I would think there's more than enough companies from other countries who can meet the challenge.
#4
My two biggest worries about GWB are his instinct to be a "nice guy" and the ever-present doubt that he actually sees the Saudis for the enemies they are.
Bush 41's "kinder, gentler America" crap was about as comforting to me as fingernails raked across a blackboard, as was his decision to end Gulf War I without removing Saddam.
The world doesn't need- nor does it respect, as 9/11 proved- a "kinder, gentler America". What the world would greatly benefit from is a brutal, short-tempered America that's absolutely unwilling to put up with Islamist/Arab bullshit.
"Allahu Akhba-" BANG!!!!
Posted by: Dave D. ||
03/31/2003 12:31 Comments ||
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#5
It's a good sign if the Russians are coming to the table. We'll welcome the Russians back, albeit with the same distrust as a cheating lover. ie: grateful the spat is over, but fully aware the relationship is not as secure as we once thought. Thus they will suffer more from a lack of enthusiasm and trust than they will at the diplomatic table.
The Germans will be included back, like an belligerent, hated ex-spouse to a wedding. We will do it because we have to, for the sake of the family.
Why we will allow the French to participate is beyond me. If I were the Russians and the Germans, I'd used this limited-time-offer to screw the French in exchange for much better deals. Americans will gladly pay premium to get a full accounting of ChIraq's dealing's with the devil...just for the pure pleasure of watching that worm squirm.
#6
I agree more with Becky than with Dave - as long as this isnt wholesale giving in, but an attempt to play the weasels off against each other, it makes sense - we do need allies (and great power allies, and not just UK) going forward, and divergent interests make it hard for the AOW to hold toghther. I confess to having been surprised at how they held together pre-war - but I continue to hope that when the wars results put them on the defensive, they will break up.
I disagree with Becky somewhat about the priorities among the three - I see Germany as the easiest to reach out to. Im not sure that Russia will be easier than France. Perhaps because unlike some bloggers I have always had my doubts about Putin, and Bush's embrace of Putin - because the WOT never, IMO, fully excused what Russia has done in Chechnya, and certainly has NOT retroactively justified their position on ex-Yugoslavia. And I think there's a still a lot of emotionalism wrt France (though again I confess to being wrong in the past - I thought France would eventually go along) Bottom line - Germany first, between Russia and France lets see what they do and say in the coming weeks.
#7
Excuse me Becky, but weren't the German anything but belligerent in that matter? But in September 2001 NATO offered all the assistance and solidarity it had. Schroeder even risked a non confidence vote in parliament. And America said: Umm thank you, but we don't really need you. What did Russia do for you in 2001? (Later you found out that NATO would not be so bad after all and right now German troops lead ISAF in Afghanistan). Wasn't Germany one of the most faithful allies you had in Europe? And you still had it in the 90s when the Soviet threat had collapsed.
The Schroeder government has made a few crucial mistakes and all I can hope is that it doesn't make it to the next elections.
I think America still is better off with friends who make mistakes than with changing coalitions of ... well you know what.
#8
In the aftermath of the security council argument over Iraq, let's not mistake the Germans for either Russia or the French. I agree with True German Ally, Germany has been a staunch ally since ww2 and recent turns to the extreme left are hopefully an anomaly. The fact that France and Germany aligned on Iraq is truly a strange occurence and hopefully not indicative of a pattern, but time will tell.
Militarily, German troops are well-respected by the west, have a modern and disciplined army, and they will fight (unlike the french), so other than an odd political alignment of strange bedfellows, they have little in common with either the Russians or the frogs.
#9
hmmm...perhaps liberal hawk is right. He almost always rises above me to see with better moral clarity. I mean that...I'm not being snide.
As for True German Ally's post...Yes, you are right, Germany has been there for us and given us support in this war on terror. But we're bitter that Schroeder was bad mouthing us just to curry favor with the children, knowing how damaging that would be. Without the backbiting, perhaps Russia and Turkey would have come around. Perhaps we could have avoided war altogether. We will never know. But there wasn't much thanks from a country that we once helped liberate from their own Sadaam, not so long ago.
I don't have any beef with the German people, except those frothing at the mouth with anti-Americanism. But we certainly have plenty of those here at home too, so I suppose I need to rethink it. Anyway, I really only meant the analogy of the "belligerent hated ex-spouse" to extend to Schroeder and his immediate cronies, and not to the German people(represented as "the family") - perhaps it wasn't a good analogy.
Upon second thoughts, I have to agree with the concept of Germany first, then Russia.
#10
I read the article and caught this little gem that gave me reason to pause:
One GOP foreign-policy guru says that Bush's ham-handed diplomacy has "left fissures that won't heal easily."
Note the so-called GOP guru is un-named, most likely the exchange leading up to that quote went like this,
"Hey Ted, do you know any GOP foreign-policy types that are hostile to Bush?"
"Hmmm, geez Bob, not off hand...what about Pinsky?"
"Pinsky? He's not a foreign-policy expert. He writes for the Times."
"Yeah, but he's dating that french chick, hates Bush with a passion and he voted for Reagan."
"Pinksy voted for REAGAN?"
"Yeah, well once. He was living in Florida at the time and got confused about the ballot..."
Then after re-reading the article again and looking into the U.S. Institute for Peace I came to the realization that this was wishful thinking presented as fact-based reporting. The U.S. Institure for Peace is a retirement home for State Department employees and has been opposed to the war in Iraq - they proposed a peaceful means of removing Saddam from power including better targeted sanctions.
This piece may be representative of U.S. business interests whose main concern is not angering our trading partners by involving them in the reconstruction of Iraq, but it doesn't seem to reflect the path the adminstration is pursuing.
Posted by: Robert Modean ||
03/31/2003 14:28 Comments ||
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lol! Dave and Robert both made me laugh. I just came back to say that perhaps my analogy wasn't so bad afterall. Since Germany was already "part of the family" and Russia only a cheating love interest, it seems about right. As for France, I just can't bring myself to speak to (or about) her, yet. The witch.
#12
I had pointed out earlier how the rift between Germany and the U.S. (or rather Schroeder and the Bush administration) was caused. Mistakes were made on both sides. But, as the saying goes, after some marriage counseling things should improve.
There is a certain alienation here. Germans population is about as antiwar as Spanish, French or Italians (if you believe the polls). I think the German malaise (apart from having Schroeder) is that Germans had it too good for too long. They have come to like the status quo and only slowly seem to realize that the world (and the economical conditions) have changed.
Unfortunately they were not ready when Bush Sr offered Germany to be "partner in leadership" (1990). Reunified Germany is still struggling to find its new role in the world. Unfortunately we have to put up with a chancellor who willfuly squandered Germany's political capital just to get a cheap reelection.
France jumped on the opportunity. The French were positively scared that Germany could run the show in Eastern Europe. Unfortunately the dismal economy of former East Germany dragged the whole country down. Now the French are up to their old tricks.
Germany will always have to be in a certain entente with France. But not the like we have right now. To put your stakes on France and not on the U.S. is just foolish. But it's a temporary thing: Most German politicians still favor the transatlantic option even if many are awfully quiet about it these days.
But you don't throw 50 years out of the windows. We all have to find our new place in a very changed world. The sooner we realize it, the better. A little American patience will help a lot.
#15
Wow, that's a very balanced article. Just one objection: I do drive wayyyyy faster on the autobahn...LOL
But I would NEVER leave the keys where a French could grab them!
#16
We all have to find our new place in a very changed world.
Yeah but why do you have to go looking for this new place at such critical times in history.
I used to have a very favourable view of Europe, specifically Germany, thinking that America has so much in common with Germany that there's no way that there could ever be such a rift between the two. All Germany had to do was take the middle of the two extremes, France's veto of any resolution and America's predisposition to war, and we would have a UN force liberating Iraq right now (there's no way that Saddam would have complied). Instead, for some odd reason, though I may guess why, Germany chose to stick it to the US, sucking in Russia with them. Forgive me but my favourable view has now changed to antagonism and just plain mistrust. It is exactly at such critical times that friends should stick together. But it wasn't so. This is extremely disappointing, and will take long time to heal within me.
I do not mention France because they are way beyond forgiveness.
#17
I've got a real problem with Russia. They have been keeping their nuclear engineers together with Iran's Bushehr reactor design and construction for mostly cash. They are basically helping the Iranians create WMD through plutonium production. I would like to work closer with the Russians, especially in the energy field. Alaskan and other US companies have been working in the Russian Far East. But the Russians are doing with Iran the same thing that the French have been doing in Iraq, namely being indirect enablers for WMD or its components.
Posted by: Alaska Paul ||
03/31/2003 21:26 Comments ||
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#18
Hmmm. What if Russia and Germany are invited and France isn't? I wounder how deep the ties are between the three....
U.S. troops fought Iraqi militia and Republican Guard units near the site of ancient Babylon on Monday in what is thought to be the closest land battle yet to Baghdad. On a front about 70 miles south of the capital, U.S. forces said they advanced to the outskirts of the city of Hilla after fierce fighting in which many Iraqis and at least one American were killed.
There was also action around a bridge over the Euphrates river at Hindiya, just 80 km from Baghdad, where U.S. troops encountered Iraqis firing from buildings and foxholes dug in along a road through the date-growing region. A military official told Reuters that U.S. forces took control of a jailhouse at Hindiya and found maps for the defense of the city, detailing where Iraqi forces were camped.
As an intense artillery barrage opened up on Baghdad's southern outskirts on Monday, some U.S. ground units seem to be probing toward the capital, attacking Iraqi defenders, including elite Republican Guards. They are also keeping Iraqis guessing about where the bulk of U.S. troops in the west may cross the Euphrates. "We're coming. Where the regime is, we're coming," U.S. Brigadier General Vincent Brooks told a briefing in Qatar. He said some Republican Guard units were in "serious difficulty."
Fighting around Imam Aiyub, several km south of Hilla on the eastern, or Baghdad, side of the Euphrates, began at around 7 a.m. Hilla, with a population of 300,000, is the main city between Imam Aiyub and Baghdad.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 10:49 am ||
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# As an intense artillery barrage opened up on Baghdad's southern outskirts on Monday, ...
So we're close enough for an artillery duel just outside Baghdad, eh? So much for the pause!
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/31/2003 10:59 Comments ||
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....U.S. troops encountered Iraqis firing from buildings and foxholes dug in along a road through the date-growing region....
Their date with destiny!
Posted by: john ||
03/31/2003 12:16 Comments ||
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Reuters has barred CNN from using its Baghdad video feed after the Iraqi authorities ordered the news agency not to supply the US network with pictures. Although CNN can use Reuters' audio material, pictures being sent around the world by the agency are marked "NO ACCESS CNN". The agency's reluctant decision to prevent CNN using its TV footage comes after the rolling news network was expelled from Baghdad. The Iraqis accused CNN of being a "propaganda tool" for the US army. Hah, hah, hah, hah, hah, hah
Posted by: Steve ||
03/31/2003 10:47 am ||
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#1
Do you mean that al-Reuters follow orders from Baghdad?
#3
Do you mean that al-Reuters follow orders from Baghdad?
They have to bend over for Saddam. Hey this isn't funny. CNN is all I have for live coverage.
#4
Video feeds are usually available on the MSNBC and CBS News websites. A bit spotty in coverage, but better than a sharp stick. The cams don't seem to be as well oriented as the CNN cam, though -- some big traffic circle on MSNBC, lately. It's fun to listen to the Arabic technicians/newsies yammer on, though -- would probably be more interesting to someone who speaks Arab, tho...
#5
That still camera would of been a propaganda tool,when it shows some a-1 abrams cruisin down main street,and a engineering crew tiltin up a McDonalds.
Drudge sez Geraldo's getting tossed for revealing troop location information in his live broadcast. 101st will escort him to the Kuwait border.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 10:21 am ||
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#1
Straaange. I just saw him on TV not 5 minutes ago (11:40 EST); He actually commented on this rumor at the tail end of his broadcast, and the 5 to 7 "Screaming Eagles" in the background were grinning from ear to ear.
#6
he drew a sand map on the ground - looked more like kids diagramming a street football game than disclosing confidential position info
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/31/2003 11:01 Comments ||
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#7
Usually, I can't stand the guy. But I think he's done a good job over there. The 101st seems to have no problem with him. The little thing in the sand he did was a helluva lot less then what all these retired generals (jesus, how many of them ARE there?) do on the telestrator in studio about every five minutes.
#8
Say it ain't so ..... Gerald's support for the troops is both patriotic and energizing. This is a ploy by NBC - spinning the truth, learned it from the Clintonite's - so that they deflect the onslaught of emails for their initial support of Arnett
Posted by: Tony ||
03/31/2003 11:56 Comments ||
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The other embedded journalists are not as well known as Geraldo. The 101st considers itself a first-class fighting machine, and considers the assignment of someone this well-known to cover them as a badge of honor. What's great about Geraldo, is that it comes across that the feeling is mutual: History is made where-ever the 101st is sent.
If you play those paper-based war games, he's the "counter" that adds +10 morale to every army unit in the same square he's in.
#10
Hey don't mock Geraldo's sand maps. Those maps were the best graphic presentation I've seen on Fox yet.
I'm so tired of the map with just one city on it (usually not the one being discussed) and the huge toy planes and tanks they drop on it.
Posted by: Chris Smith ||
03/31/2003 12:22 Comments ||
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#11
Two points:
First, Geraldo is the "rock star" persona of the embedded journalists. It is no coincidence that he with the 101st. It appears that he has bonded with the screaming eagles, and that they have bonded with him.
Second, I used to detest the guys politics. He was one of the most ardent apologists for Clinton and the left on TV. It has been amazing to see his transformation, however, now that he is spending time with real people, real soldiers in the field. He has become an ardent supporter of the war.
#12
I watched Geraldo's broadcast and couldn't figure out what the fuss was. His little sand drawing went, "OK, the Brits are over here in the east moving up this way, the 3rd ID is giong up this way, the 101 is around here, ya da, ya da." No big deal, all the networks are reporting the same, in more detail. Then it hit me. One of the commentators asked him about supplies. He responded; "We're pretty good here, supplies are coming up OK. The Army has completed a new road out to the west that they are using to bring up supplies! "
Holy Shit! That's something that no one had mentioned before or since. A new road, punched through the desert out west of all forces we know about. I wouldn't have caught it myself till I heard a caller on a radio show mention it. That's what has the brass in a uproar. I would not be suprised if Geraldo stayed there and was told to shut up about the road. Pulling him might raise attention to what he said..
Posted by: Steve ||
03/31/2003 15:16 Comments ||
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#13
Veteran reporter Geraldo Rivera, a correspondent for Fox News, is being removed from Iraq by the U.S. military for reporting Western troop movements in the war, the Pentagon said on March 31, 2003. "He was with a military unit in the field and the commander felt that he had compromised operational information by reporting the position and movements of troops," Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman told Reuters.
#14
I don't trust Geraldo, so it doesn't surprise me that he tried to pull a fast one with his little sand map. If I were the Commander, I'd have my men leak all kinds of B.S. to that ego-maniac, knowing he'd just have to be FIRST! to report it. Then I'd sit back and have a good laugh at his expense.
#16
Then it hit me. One of the commentators asked him about supplies. He responded; "We're pretty good here, supplies are coming up OK. The Army has completed a new road out to the west that they are using to bring up supplies!"
The "Map" is chicken feed. The comment about the road should have had him canned immediately!
I used Google to look up the latest on the incident. As of 2 hours ago, Google news said Geraldo's still with the 101st, but the pentagon link states he wasn't an official "embedded" reporter. Thus, he wasn't given the normal training (i.e. beating over the head) about what constitutes operational security.
However, I believe that, in private, he's biting this tounge severely: I can tell he really loves the troops, so the thought of putting them or their supplies in danger must tear at him.
IF they leave him on, he must have given the commander a convincing show of contrition, and is probably going through "embedded" training right at this moment.
I think that the commander, IF he leaves Geraldo on, probably has decided that the reporting and the morale boost Geraldo provides outweighs the
KURDISH fighters took control yesterday of more territory left by Iraqi forces withdrawing towards the major oil centre of Kirkuk, as Iraqi positions near the demarcation line between Kurdistan and Iraq came under fire from US and British forces for the third night running. The almost 15km advance by the US-backed Kurdish militia was unchallenged but slowed by dense minefields left by Saddam Hussein's troops, according to Ares Abdullah, a Kurdish commander. It was the third significant shift since Thursday in the front line separating Iraqi forces from the Kurds.
Overnight on Sunday, coalition forces bombed Iraqi positions along the demarcation line, while Kirkuk and Mosul — the two main northern cities under Baghdad rule — have come under relentless attack from US warplanes. Each Iraqi move since last week has allowed Kurds to move closer to Kirkuk — the nation's second-largest oil-producing region and considered by Kurds as an essential part of their ethnic lands. In the hill country south of Taqtaq — about 55km southeast of the Kurdish administrative capital, Erbil — Kurdish forces can clearly see the glow of Kirkuk and its oil fields about 24km away. The reason for the Iraqi repositioning is unclear. But Kurdish commanders believe Iraqi troops have been seriously battered and need reinforcements. Iraq could also be rearranging units because the Pentagon apparently does not yet have enough strength in the Western-protected Kurdish zone for a ground assault. Plans for a northern offensive were crippled after Turkey refused to allow US troops to cross the border. We keep hearing about a steady stream of C-130s and C-17s landing at the airstrip in the north. I don't they are delivering milk and cookies.
The Kurdish advance in the Taqtaq region came less than 24 hours after its forces fell back along another front: conceding more than 18km along the main road from Erbil to Kirkuk. Iraqi gunners have now dug in just outside Altun Kupri, also known as Perdeh, about 45km from Kirkuk. The noose continues to tighten.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/31/2003 10:19 am ||
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Hey, Turkey, why so quiet ? That bile in your throat is called "consequences of your actions".
#2
The Kurdish advance in the Taqtaq region came less than 24 hours after its forces fell back along another front: conceding more than 18km along the main road from Erbil to Kirkuk.
I think the Kurds have realized that frankness, honesty, and the ability to admit problems doesn't cause heart attacks, baldness, or erectile dysfunction.
#3
The almost 15km advance by the US-backed Kurdish militia was unchallenged but slowed by dense minefields left by Saddam Hussein's troops
As I recall, one of the young Kennedy's (can't remember: the rapist or the spendthrift) is active in some anti-landmine organization. They've been yammering for years about our landmines. Wonder if they have any protests planned about Sammmy's landmines?
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/31/2003 11:02 Comments ||
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#4
Why do Turks presume to dictate which cities Kurds are allowed to go into or not? in particular, two cities with large Kurdish communities, two cities located in Iraq not Turkey. Is it all about the oiiiiil for the Turks?
Iraqi Foreign Minister Naji Sabri said on Monday that the US and Britain have fallen in the trap of their false dreams and advised the coalition forces to surrender themselves to the Iraqis. Uhhh... Hokay. We give up.
Speaking at a press conference, Sabri predicted humiliating defeat for the coalition forces due to strong resistance by Iraqi armed and popular forces, including tribesmen and villagers. He said Baghdad would treat the British and US forces according to Geneva convention and Islamic and Arab values. Sabri said the aggressors are a minority and isolated group and in fact representatives of the Mafia groups, Israel and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. The Iraqi minister said Iraq enjoys Arab nations' support, who call on their governments to close their stances in favor of Iraq. "We have acted through the Non-Aligned Movement (NAM), Organization of the Islamic Conference (OIC), and Arab League; NAM has called for a meeting by the UN General Assembly to work for cessation of war and withdrawal of aggressors from Iraq," said the Iraqi minister. That's a listing of the most ineffectual organizations around, isn't it?
He accused Israel of contributing forces to the war on his country, saying it is a tangible sign of Israel's direct role in the war. He added that an Israeli missile had landed in Iraqi territory in the past couple of days. "We tell them that we will turn Iraqi deserts to their mass graves and they will face no fate but death," said Sabri.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 10:20 am ||
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Where do these lunatics get this stuff? There must be a correspondence course somewhere for these idiots - the Iraqis seem to be on the same page as the NKors.
#4
Didnt the leader of the Taliban say something like this? - Where is he now? - Hiding in a cave somewhere in the hills of Pakistan? Peeing in his robe? - Or possibly even dead. These guys must be watching too much Al-Jezeera TV.........Get your Camel ready, ..... cause We're coming for YOU! - ........Abdul
Posted by: True American ||
03/31/2003 17:19 Comments ||
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"Sabri said the aggressors are a minority and isolated group and in fact representatives of the Mafia groups"
Hah! Catch any of the bent-nose boys joining up. Fat chance. Mike Corleone they ain't...
Iraqi Ambassador to Moscow Abbas Khalaf said on Monday that 700 US and British servicemen have been killed and more than a 1,000 have been injured in Iraq since the beginning of war on his country on Thursday March 20. Khalaf said at a press conference that the invading forces have lost five warplanes, six pilotless aircraft and six combat helicopters. He said that Iraqis had also managed to capture a helicopter, 74 tanks, 35 armored vehicles and 20 various combat vehicles of the US and British forces. Why, they're beating the hell out of us! Who knew?
Pentagon reports that 37 US marines and 23 British servicemen have been killed. Fourteen US and two British servicemen are missing. Apparenlty we don't know...
The diplomat said Iraqis have begun to bury US and British soldiers killed in southern Iraq because of the shortage of electricity and refrigerators to freeze the bodies. He said that definitely, after the combat actions end, the remains of servicemen will be handed over to the United States and United Kingdom. Khalaf said that the toll among Iraqis, on the lists of killed people are only civilians — 589 are killed and 4,500 are wounded. And most of them are babies...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 10:13 am ||
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Posted by: Fred ||
03/31/2003 10:23 Comments ||
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#3
Who does he expect to believe him? *Mental note: Must check Pravda later*
Re. the US PoWs: Telegraph print edition reports four bodies found in shallow graves are believed to be those of PoWs sown on Iraqi TV last week. Anyone found this story online?
#4
Unfortunately, this is often the only "information" the "Arab street" gets, and they believe it. It's time to create an Arabic "Voice of Freedom" radio/television capability, and start beaming reality to these folks.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/31/2003 10:42 Comments ||
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#5
1. I wonder how many US fatalies they think there were in Afghanistan.
2. I wonder what they will think of their Arabmedia types when the war ends in Iraq.
3. I think I recall that during the 1972 arab-israeli war, the Arabmedia told there people about immiment Israeli surrender many times and when the Israelis won, it discredited the Arabmedia for about a half decade. Of course the psychosis may be heavier now.
#6
With regard to casualties in Afghanistan, there was an article in one of the Pak papers yesterday or Saturday that there are 500 U.S. deaders in cold storage in Jacobabad that the Merkins are afraid to do anything with.
When this is over, the ArabMedia will move on to the next confrontation, keeping all the rumors from this one and the one before. Truth is a flexible concept, a resource available to the state, rather than something that stands on its own. Remember, Sammy sez he won Gulf War I. When we win, it will have been with the help of Zionists, or space aliens, or something.
Posted by: Fred ||
03/31/2003 11:01 Comments ||
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#7
I think they might be counting 82 year old WWII vets who have passed away from old age since the beginning of March as "coalition forces".
#11
The dichotomy between the counts are those Iraqi soldiers who were dressed in British and American uniforms. Expect that the dichotomy is going to grow geometrically over the next seveal weeks.
V
Posted by: Timmy the Wonder Dog ||
03/31/2003 16:38 Comments ||
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They forgot.
One Sammy dead
One jr Sammy dead
One jr Sammy with speech impediment dead.
US and British troops on Monday afternoon launched a major attack on Nassiriya, south Iraq, and were reportedly engaged in intense clashes with Iraqi forces. Informed sources told IRNA's correspondent in Iran's border point of Shalamcheh with Iraq that the US-led troops had started heavy fighting on the commanding headquarters of Iraqi forces in the city. It is still not known if the US-British troops have entered the city.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 10:04 am ||
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ABC reports arrival of a second MEU - that would include 2nd Marine Div, IIUC.
Bombardments by US-led coalition forces on Iraqi frontline positions in Mosul continued for the third day before daybreak Monday, the Arabic satellite channel Al-Jazeera reported. An Al-Jazeera correspondent embedded with forces in the region said he saw with his own eyes a US warplane roaring over the skies of Mosul. Several explosions have been heard in the outskirts of Mosul since the coalition intensified their strikes on the city Sunday night. Al-Jazeera reported that US and British forces attacked the Iraqi positions near Mosul for the third night. B-52 bombers dropped at least 20 bombs on Iraqi command facilities allowing contact with the opposition-controlled Kurdish region, the TV added. It said several explosions were also heard in the Kurdish town of Kalak, 40 kilometers from Mosul. Meanwhile, the same Al-Jazeera correspondent in northern Iraq reported that Peshmergas of the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) had taken control over the region and that Iraqi soldiers had withdrawn to the outskirts of city of Kirkuk two days ago. PUK said the Iraqi forces had withdrawn 13 kilometers from the city and evacuated eight villages in the region. There was video of carpet bombing outside Mosul on the teevee last night. They were military positions in the hills, no women, children, puppies, kittens or baby ducks in sight...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 09:56 am ||
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Coalition forces are making preparations to launch a new offensive against Basra with bombing southern Iraq and widespread helicopter operations in the area. According to reports released at `No Man's Land', Basra was subject to several air raids and helicopter operations on Sunday. The helicopters are hovering to take troops and armaments to Basra battlefield from south-west and south-east parts of the country. Basra has been subject to heavy air raids, cruise missile bombardment and artillery shelling for the past week destroying the city's infrastructure, cutting off water and electricity supplies. The Saturday bombardment ruined the city's food warehouse, a fuel storage and some urban structures. A number of Basra citizens managed to leave the war-stricken city after several days of uninterrupted bombardment and cross through the American and British forces, who are stationed around the city. According to the people leaving Basra, the city is completely entrenched and the explosive traps laid on the streets and bridges make the traffic quite difficult, if not impossible.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 09:53 am ||
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Update from News.com.au: BRITISH commandos captured five senior Iraqi officers in a clash with Iraqi paramilitaries near Basra yesterday but none of them was a general as had been initially reported, a British military spokeswoman said today. "We have got five senior Iraqi officers but none of them is a general," Major Catherine Convery said at the US-British forward command headquarters at As-Saliyah, from which the war on Iraq is directed.
They were trying to slip out of Basra to the west and got caught.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/31/2003 10:31 Comments ||
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"five senior Iraqi officers .... but none of them was a general"
U.S. Marines launched a dawn raid on the town of Shatra, north of Nassiriya, on Monday, aiming to assassinate senior Iraqi officials they believe are directing attacks again invasion forces, Reuters reported. Among those targeted was Ali Hassan al-Majeed the cousin whom President Saddam Hussein has put in charge of the southern front. If he is a hands-on type of thug, it makes sense he'd be down south somewhere. Communications must be bad about now.
The Marines were storming the town, about 35 km north of the city of Nassiriya, with warplanes dropping precision-guided bombs, helicopter gunships and tanks. Marine officers said they had intelligence from anti-Saddam groups that Majeed was in Shatra with other senior officials in Saddam's Baath party who were coordinating paramilitary forces that have ambushed U.S. supply convoys and slowed the advance on Baghdad. The targets in Shatra were the local Baath party headquarters and "associated planning sites", Marine officers said. "We believe there are about 200 to 300 Baath party loyalists and Saddam Fedayeen irregulars in the town," said Marine company commander Captain Mike Martin. Seal it off and flush out the rats.
Posted by: Anonymous ||
03/31/2003 08:17 am ||
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Grab the bastard and threaten to send him to Kurdistan if he doesn't spill the info.
Firefighters faced the remaining two blazes at booby-trapped oil wells in Iraq's Rumeila South oil field. A team from Boots & Coots International Well Control extinguished a fire and capped a well on Saturday. Kuwaiti firefighters were battling a separate fire. Firefighters hope to put out the two fires within a week. 5 down,2 to go.
Iraqis who previously worked at the field have already started returning to ask for their jobs back, said Boots & Coots president, Brian Krause. Good sign, make sure you keep an eye on them.
Rumeila South, just north of the Kuwait-Iraq border, is one of Iraq's biggest oil fields. Air Marshal Brian Burridge, the top British commander in the Gulf, has said he expected Iraq to begin resuming oil exports from the field in three months. But some oil analysts say exports could resume within weeks because U.S. and British forces captured Iraq's main southern pipelines and its Persian Gulf export terminal of Mina al-Bakr intact. Heh, heh
Posted by: Steve ||
03/31/2003 08:05 am ||
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#1
the syrian and turkey pipelines should stay off as well, backstabbing bastards. I expected that from baby assad, but expected more from turkey....just as Murat has spiralled down into gibberish and trolling, turkey should be left to stew in their own
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/31/2003 8:20 Comments ||
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#2
I can't wait for the History/Discovery Channel spot covering that SEAL raid on the export terminal. What I've heard is that they went in and took it without firing a shot--zero casualties on all sides! A textbook, letter-perfect raid!
There's going to be a slew of great documentaries after all is said and done here. What we're seeing on TV isn't even the tip of the iceberg.
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg ||
03/31/2003 8:32 Comments ||
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#3
turkey is a long time strategic allie, who materially suffered (both monetarilly as well as loss of life) after the gulf war. turkey will be a critical partner and we should make every effort to reconcile with them.
with respect to syria close the pipeline, until we have regime change.
Posted by: Timmy the Wonder Dog ||
03/31/2003 8:36 Comments ||
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#4
Yea,let Turkey have thier pipe line fees,just stay the hell out of Iraq.
THREE British soldiers wounded in a "friendly fire" accident lashed out yesterday at the "cowboy" American pilot who blasted their armoured convoy. One serviceman was killed and another is in intensive care after coalition markings on the Household Cavalry Scimitars were apparently missed from about 500 metres and only 50 metres above ground. Lance Corporal of Horse Steven Gerrard, 33, said: "Combat is what I've been trained for. I can command my vehicle. I can keep it from being attacked. "What I have not been trained to do is look over my shoulder to see whether an American is shooting at me." Damn, don't have a rearview mirror, oh sorry lad the Americans are used to drive the right side of the road.
The A-10 anti-tank aircraft made two separate forays on the five-vehicle convoy - and survivors waved at him to try to attract his attention before the second. If I miss I'll come back "He had absolutely no regard for human life," added LCoH Gerrard. "I believe he was a cowboy. ???? The Brits are saying this, what about Basra?
"There were four or five that I noticed earlier and this one had broken off and was on his own when he attacked us. He'd just gone out on a jolly. I'm curious about what's going to happen to the pilot. He's killed one of my friends and he's killed him on the second run."
Posted by: Murat ||
03/31/2003 01:38 am ||
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#1
Don't wet yourself Murat, it's just one regrettable incident, not the end of the war.
#3
Isn't the first, won't be the last, unfortunately. Friendly fire incidents have happened sporadically and both Brits and Yanks are to blame.
Btw, do you know what a 'Caps Lock' key is for, Murat?
Posted by: Dar Steckelberg ||
03/31/2003 8:17 Comments ||
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#4
I can write about a dozen articles that start: "*fill in name* had just gotten off the phone with his/her wife/husband -- just a quick reminder that the kids had soccer practice that evening.. *fill in name* agreed that he/she was also looking forward to the vacation the happy family would soon be taking together.. Suddenly, *fill in name* felt the blast as the building shook with an enormous explosion -- fortunately for *fill in name's* family, his/her death was almost painless as the jet crashing into the WTC instantly vaporized his/her body..."
touching, isn't it... war is horrible -- people (yes, even children) die -- it sucks, but it happens......
Posted by: Steve ||
03/31/2003 8:22 Comments ||
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#5
Hey Fred, can you direct Murat to someplace where he can get his own blog site? Doesn't he get a limit of some kind? I don't come here for the propaganda, and his bold-facing is starting to get to me.
Posted by: Tom ||
03/31/2003 11:15 Comments ||
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#6
The caps lock I can do without, but it's real news that's in circulation elsewhere. You can bet it will be played up bigtime by those who want to break Britain out of the coalition. And Murat kept it short - that's nice. Now if he'd just stop posting useless straight-from-the-Information-Ministry stuff like, "In a last gasp before their certain defeat, the Americans bombed five orphanages and a kindergarten."
SHE could be asleep. In her flannel pyjama bottoms and 101 Dalmatians top, her eyes gently closed, little Sarah looks like any other seven-year-old. Except she is lying on a stainless steel mortuary tray, another victim of this bloody war. She had just finished breakfast and was playing with her brother and sisters on Friday when her life was violently stolen. Her mum Shafaa was washing the dishes, happy that her Baghdad home was ringing to the sound of children's laughter, until a huge explosion knocked her to the floor. After the shock had subsided, she saw "blood splattered against the walls" and her four babies lying silently in the rubble. As she tried to wake them, she discovered that shrapnel had taken off the back of Sarah's head and half the face of her son Karrad, six. Both were dead. Her two other babes, three-year-old son Sajad and two-year-old daughter, Sajud, were taken to hospital and are yet to wake up. Nice genocide "liberation" act, the Iraqis are delerious from happiness, Johnny is comming to save them.
Posted by: Murat ||
03/31/2003 01:34 am ||
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#1
Al Mirror, the paper that gets everything backwards, the drinking man's Guardian.
#2
Why do people pretend as if there was zero suffering in Iraq before the attack. All of Iraq's children lived in peaceful, happy bliss until the Mean 'Mericans came along.
This "Politics of Dead Babies" thing is getting outta hand. I love how they use sentences like "happy that her Baghdad home was ringing to the sound of children's laughter...." and "blood splattered walls" as if we wouldn't be sufficiently horrified by the unintended death of children unless we know the awful details.
Posted by: Tokyo Taro ||
03/31/2003 2:35 Comments ||
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Targeting civilians? Yeah right! Zogby is pointing to increasing opposition in the Arab sandbox, to America. Yet Zog refuses to condemn the deceitful atrocity propaganda that incites that contempt. And he expects American opinion to shift, respecting Arab sensibilities. They can go to hell. In fact, I think that anybody who believes that American forces are going to capture Baghdad by poking through its 1,000,000 plus booby-trapped/Fedayen polluted residences, is brain dead. Bye bye Bush Doctrine.
#4
Saddam is directly and morally responsible for each innocent death in Iraq. Just as Hitler was directly and morally responsible for each death of innocent people in Germany. How difficult is that to grasp?
#9
Cyprus and Iraq are a way different buddy, first of all the Cyprus war was not about oil as is the Iraq war, secondly Turkey had a legal status as one of the 3 guarantor states (England, Turkey and Greece) to protect the lives of the Turkish Cypriots and third there is no occupation since Northern Cyprus has its own elected government, state body and legislative body. And 4 Turkey interfered 7 years after a UN peacekeeping force was stationed on Cyprus and after it became clear that the UN was unable to protect the Turkish population against the Greek atrocities.
Posted by: Murat ||
03/31/2003 4:57 Comments ||
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#10
Can't we just have a rule that any article titled in all caps is automatically deleted?
#11
This is cheap, real cheap, and I'm disusted with myself for posting this, but here's how Turkish kids in Germany get their kicks... Hell, I'm only visiting Murat's level of discourse for a few minutes.
#13
Hey Murat, what about the evil Turks who murdered Armenian and Kurdish children -- any comments about their laughter? and the German kids tormented by Turkish gangs, do you think they're laughing? what about the countless children tortured and murdered by Saddam's thugs? how many more shall there be?
Also, can you tell us why the Turkish part of Cyprus is such a hellhole and stricken with poverty, compared to the Greek side? Between 1960 (independence) and 1974 (Turkish invasion) the Republic of Cyprus, operating a free-market economy based on agriculture and trade, achieved a standard of living higher than most of its neighbours, with the exception of Israel. Today, the free Greek Cypriot economy is prosperous -- but the Turkish occupied Cypriot economy has about one-third the per capita GDP of the free south.
#14
The article actually doesn't report anything. It is a compilation of the writer's opionions, and is clearly Iraqi propaganda.
If true it is unfortunate about the civilian's deaths, but clearly, if this woman's children were in harms way, how can this be the fault of the pilot?
#15
This is supposed to be a conservative weblog, not a release point for Iraqi propaganda. I hope allowing this marat character to post Iraqi propaganda does not continue, or I will be forced to go elsewhere.
Up until now, I have regarded Murat as a fair-minded debator of differing opinion. It has become very apparent, though, that he is just here to sow dissension on this terrific board. I propose from now on, we confer official "Troll" status on Murat.
The main rule of engagement for blog Trolls are that you DO NOT feed them. Henceforth, I will not comment on any of Murat's posts or comments. Perhaps if we all adhere to this policy, Murat can find a different board on which to spew his knee-jerk anti-Americanism.
#17
REcommended engagement policies for trolls. Loosely adapted from "The Merry Wives of Windsor."
1. Designate troll. I.e. one poster says, "A troll!!"
2. Others acknowledge presence of troll.
I.e. "A fat troll!", "A stinking troll!" "An ignorant troll!" "A biased troll!" "Poor brain damaged troll!"
3. Never respond directly to troll.
4. In event that someone sadly responds to troll, direct comments to responder, NOT to troll. I.e. "You left out ...", "YOu probably didn't have time to cover...", "Don't forget, responder, that ..."
GOAL: Never address troll in second person ("you"). Refer to troll in third person, preferably third person impersonal.
#18
Downscaling "anti-war" to "anti-Americanism", call it what you want, none of you have answers to how to liberate a people a la Vietnam style by killing them. Where are the great ideals of liberating a people when it comes to OIL poor Rwanda, where Tutsis kill Hutus by millions. This is not a liberation war, it is an OIL looting war
Posted by: Murat ||
03/31/2003 8:16 Comments ||
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#19
human suffering is an integral part of war. it cannot be avoided.
the question is, have we targeted civilians in this conflict? if you look at baghdad and the number of sorties, we have taken every effort to avoid the situation outlined above. whereas the iraqis have directly targeted civilians both by placing military sites right next to civilian populations and direct terror of those same populations. it is this terror, that we seek to liberate the iraqis from.
murat can't refute the truth, he can only change the subject.
finally, and in my opinion, all weblogs should be open to a dignified discussion on the conflict, limiting the discourse only feeds our predisposed positions as well as limiting our ability to listen.
V
Posted by: Timmy the Wonder Dog ||
03/31/2003 8:29 Comments ||
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#21
I agree with mjh. Murat is not interested in discussion, only dissemination of his propaganda. From now on I'm going to scroll through his posted articles without even reading them, they all sound the same anyway.
Posted by: charlotte ||
03/31/2003 8:35 Comments ||
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#22
Thanks Ptah! You documented the blog troll ROE's far better than I could have!
A thought just occurred. There is an almost tragic irony that those who wish to criticize America for everything under the sun-the only way many have found their voice is through technology developed in the good ol' US of A!
#24
Murat you have it backwards - it was hutu extremists killing tutsis (and hutu moderates) by the millions. we tragically failed to intervene. It should be noted that the French were quite eager protectors of the genocidaires, and that the new, anti-genocide govt of Rwanda supports the Coalition.
#26
"...in my opinion, all weblogs should be open to a dignified discussion on the conflict, limiting the discourse only feeds our predisposed positions as well as limiting our ability to listen."
I disagree, Timmy. This blog does have an open forum feel about it, but essentially Fred's at liberty to decide what stays. It's for relevant (and preferably reliable) information on the WoT, not nebulous opinion pieces and shoddy reporting that supports one individual's biased views. Most people who post here do so with respect to the ethos of the site.
#27
Inominate Murat for the biggest TROLL on rantburg. Again, look at the nature of his posts, his editing/hilighting, his lack of context, and his slant.
Murat is not REPORTING, he is PROPAGANDIZING, as surely as Iraqi TV does for Iraq and Geobbels did for the Third Reich.
Were that the case, Bush could have papered over the WMD and accepted the bogus UN reports.
He coudl have then ignored the Human Rights Violations like we do with the brutal racist savages people and Government in Turkey when they go after Armenians and Kurds and attempt genocide.
Then Bush could have simply cut a deal and let his oil company buddies cozy up to Saddam and make a LOT of money. Cost him less, makes money for his pals.
So your "Its all about Oil" Doesnt cut it with anyone other than propagandists and Workers Party communist dupes.
#30
It raises the interesting question: for our napalm bombs, are they GPS Guided now? muwahhaa
Posted by: Brian ||
03/31/2003 10:54 Comments ||
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#31
I think its fine for Murat to have his opinion, but posting these non news articles is wasting my time.
I value rantburg as a news source, and have always appreciated the lack of human interest stories.
Clear the sh*t out.
#32
bulldog, i'm aware that Fred is at liberty to bounce me (i've been bounced from two liberal sites). simply put, my point is that if everyone is of the same mindset on an issue, a tremendous amout of fawning occurs (everyone congratulating each other over how smart they are).
i prefer a sound debate.
V
Posted by: Timmy the Wonder Dog ||
03/31/2003 11:45 Comments ||
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One last shot:
Murat, has the building code in Turkey changed to protect people from collapsing buildings in a 1.0 earthquake? It must suck to live in a corrupt world eh?
#37
Old Patriot, you've ruined my day with that news. Maybe when the UN is tossed on the ash-heap of history, we can go back to the good ol' days.
With regards to Murat in general, JS Mill highlighted the utility of people like him: useful idiots. If the Mirror is the best that he has for the anti-war argument, we've won. Let him freely speak, he knows his cause is doomed.
Posted by: Brian ||
03/31/2003 16:01 Comments ||
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#38
Great.
Now we have to put up with crappy Ministry of Dis-Informationists at Rantburg.
No. I don't.
Soooo sorry a certain country's economy is tanking.
Maybe the time of the hand-outs for fair-weather, backstabbing, "friends" is over.
The troll can take it's propoganda and shove it.
When it starts complaining about the goddamn killers that have ruled Iraq and the babies that they have killed with utter glee, maybe it might gain a little credibility.
Until then, all it's joy over dead civilians (which, it can't prove were killed by the coalition), and smug assholishness over friendly fire incidents just reveal what a prick it is.
Oh yeah:
IT'S ALL ABOUT OIL.
What an unimaginative little troll to boot.
Can't it come up with anything else?
#39
Bulldog: Turkish parents at the school have responded by complaining that German pupils never sought to make friends with their Turkish classmates.
So they beat the crap out of the students?
It's always someone else's fault.
Sounds just like the Pukestinians.
#40
Seems to me the"It's only about oil"argument no longer holds water.If all we wanted was oil then why didn't we sieze the oil fields and call it quits.
Edited to stay on target.
U.S. forces have started rounding up Iraqi men in civilian clothes suspected of being involved with paramilitary squads that have been attacking them in southern Iraq and may ship some of them to the detention center at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, military officers said today. Marines patrolling Nasiriyah and other areas of heavy fighting have already detained more than 300 men in civilian clothes, initiating roundups intended to cope with the danger of an enemy that opens fire and then melts back into the population. "You round them up — that way they're not a threat," said a senior Marine officer.
The roundups are part of a shift to unconventional warfare by U.S. commanders in response to the hit-and-run attacks launched by the Saddam's Fedayeen and Baath Party militias on overstretched U.S. supply lines. The Americans have decided to emulate the British, who have used commando raids to counter resistance in southeastern Iraq. While targeting some men in civilian clothes, U.S. officers are also trying to enlist Iraqis who are estranged from the government to help root out the militias in the towns along the highways leading to Baghdad. U.S. helicopters have been dropping leaflets over Nasiriyah soliciting assistance, and the top Marine commander in Iraq said today that he might eventually distribute captured weapons to Iraqi civilians to help them rise against President Saddam Hussein. Brits are doing that in Basra according to other reports.
It is "incumbent upon us to eliminate the death squads keeping the people under their boot," said Lt. Gen. James T. Conway, who leads 85,000 Marines and British ground troops. To do that, he said, U.S. forces need good intelligence on the enemy's headquarters and leadership "and then we hit them . . . overtly and covertly." U.S. officers say they recognize that roundups of men who appear to be civilians, and who may or may not be armed, will be among the most controversial tactics they could employ, and, if applied indiscriminately, could undermine their campaign to win the "hearts and minds" of the Iraqi people. Trick is to sort out the Fedayeen from the poor schmoes who walked away from regular army units.
But they argue that they have little choice on a battlefield where they say the paramilitaries have been disguising themselves as villagers, opening fire after staging fake surrenders and intimidating others into fighting for them. Also, some U.S. forces have said they witnessed Iraqi militias pushing women and children into the line of fire. In the latest tactic to come to the attention of Marine officers, Iraqi guerrillas are stringing wire across roads at a height where it would decapitate machine gunners standing on top of passing military vehicles. "These are bad guys and it would be insane to let them roam the battlefield," said a senior officer who did not want to be identified. "If we get a few who are innocent, I'm sorry, but we can't just let them go out there and start shooting at us again."
"This isn't something we even dreamed about doing," said another officer. "This has been forced upon us." The officers said such roundups will not be arbitrary but will focus on the pattern established in the past 11 days. Putting aside the rules of engagement they devised before the war, military lawyers are drafting new criteria intended to guide front-line troops on when to take into custody Iraqi men — and possibly women — who are working with the militias and the Fedayeen. Among those already targeted are men in civilian clothes who appear to be well fed and are hanging around dangerous areas from which other civilians have fled. Such men often have a military accouterment such as boots or an identification badge. Other indicators will be included in the guidelines for identifying suspects, but officers asked that details be withheld to avoid tipping off the militias. "Seeing young, healthy males in the middle of a firefight makes you wonder what they're doing there," said the senior officer. "They're the only well-fed Iraqis in the area." Suspects are being segregated from enemy prisoners of war, in part because they may have been tormentors of regular army soldiers now being held. In other words, they never stop being bullies, even when they're in prison camp.
The detainees will be treated like POWs, but without official status, until a hearing is held under Article 5 of the Geneva Conventions, officers said. Such hearings, to be held in Iraq, will determine whether the detainees are released, held as POWs or declared illegal combatants. If they are labeled POWs, they will be held until the end of the war and then released along with other prisoners. Any who are determined to have used civilians as human shields or otherwise violated the international covenants of war will be declared illegal combatants and sent to Guantanamo Bay or other holding facilities, to be detained with al Qaeda and Taliban fighters captured in Afghanistan, military officers said. "That guy's going to get the full treatment," said the senior officer.
Military lawyers said they were trying to decide how to hold the hearings and said they wanted to conduct them as quickly as possible to return any innocents caught up in the roundups to their homes, but they acknowledged they were ill prepared for the venture. "We're still figuring this out," said the senior officer, "because we thought we'd have mass surrenders, not this crap."
Other Marine officers said they are receiving more help from Iraqis in Nasiriyah who are eager to get rid of the Fedayeen and their allies. With these Iraqis pointing the way, the Marines said they have been able to identify some of the paramilitary leaders. Captured prisoners have also been providing intelligence during interrogations. "In Nasiriyah, we have gotten a lot of support from the local population," said Lt. Col. David Pere, the senior watch officer at Marine headquarters here. "People are walking up to our line saying, 'You want to blow up that house three doors down.' " Marines tried to encourage that sentiment by handing out food, water and medical supplies, and commanders said they experienced less sniping. "Love is breaking out all over Iraq," Pere joked.
Conway said Hussein's command and control remains intact and Baghdad has been broadcasting false reports that the United States was negotiating a cease-fire leaving him in control -- a propaganda tool to convince dissident Iraqis that the United States would abandon them as it did after the Persian Gulf War of 1991. Note to Amnesty International: maybe that's one reason we bombed the TV station, eh?
U.S. commanders say they realize it will take time to earn the confidence of the Iraqis. Once that has been done, Conway said, "it's time for them to become more proactive in their own effort. . . . At that point, we would consider giving them limited amounts of weapons." He said he would distribute arms no larger than rocket-propelled grenades, or RPGs. Personally I'd limit it to AK-47s, and I'd count the rounds out. If they need anything bigger, call the nearest Marine.
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/31/2003 12:52 am ||
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"We're still figuring this out," said the senior officer, "because we thought we'd have mass surrenders, not this crap."
That was supposed to be believed by them, and by us civilians, not you.
Posted by: John Anderson ||
03/31/2003 1:51 Comments ||
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I strongly disagree: "Any who are determined to have used civilians as human shields" should NOT be sent on a Caribbean vacation. They deserve to be shot summarily right where they were caught.
#3
Give the AK's to the human shields and that's probably what will happen TGA
Posted by: Frank G ||
03/31/2003 8:16 Comments ||
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#4
The bad news is, we have to resort to this. The good news is, we've been there before, and have a pretty good handle on how to deal with it. Iraq has made still another mistake they'll pay for dearly.
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/31/2003 11:12 Comments ||
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#5
Hold them in Iraq,when it's all over turn them over to the Shia's and Kurds.
More IRNA, pass the salt please.
US troops discovered a depot of chemical weapons in Iraqi southern city of Nassiriya, said the Kuwait Television on Monday. Big news if it's true.
The television quoted US forces in Kuwait as claiming that the US troops discovered nerve gas as well as necessary equipment for fighting against chemical attacks in this depot. The United States has earlier claimed it discovered a depot of chemical weapons in the outskirts of Najaf. No film of the two depots has been broadcast yet. I don't we're going to see any, either. We've already been burned by premature announcements about discoveries of chemical weapons that later turned out not to be true.
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/31/2003 12:38 am ||
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I'm not getting my hopes up yet. These rumors and premature declarations of things like "Basra Uprisings" are hard on the nerves.
Posted by: Tokyo Taro ||
03/31/2003 2:37 Comments ||
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#2
I'm not getting my hopes up yet. These rumors and premature declarations of things like "Basra Uprisings" are hard on the nerves.
Posted by: Tokyo Taro ||
03/31/2003 2:37 Comments ||
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#3
I think these finds shouldn't be advertised too much. Probably the only reason why Saddam has not used chemical warfare is because his international support would collapse if he did.
Once the gloves are off, it could be terrible.. not so much for the well protected coalition forces but for the Iraqi population. I don't want to imagine what might happen to Basra people once "Chemical Ali" releases his stuff.
Fighting street by street, U.S. Army troops punched their way into Hindiya and battled Iraqi forces over a bridge across the Euphrates on Monday. The Americans captured several dozen Iraqis who identified themselves as members of Saddam Hussein's Republican Guard. "Hi, I'm Abdul, and this is Mahmoud, this is Achmed, this is Faisal, and this is Ibrahim. We're from the Republican Guard. Nice to meet you. Please don't kill us!"
The prisoners told the Americans they belonged to the guard's Nebuchadnezzar Brigade (sic), based in Saddam's home area of Tikrit, and they had the guard's triangular insignia. The dawn assault on the key river crossing is the closest known point in the U.S.-led advance on Baghdad. At least 15 Iraqi troops were killed in the fighting in Hindiyah, located 50 miles south of Baghdad between the sacred city of Karbala and the ruins of ancient Babylon. The 4th Batallion of the 64th armored regiment rolled in to the town of 80,000 at dawn - met quickly by small arms fire and rocket propelled grenades from Iraqis hiding behind hedges and brick walls. On the south side of the 200-yard concrete and steel bridge across the dark-green Euphrates, the soldiers took up positions in abandoned bunkers and sandbags and traded fire with Iraqis on the other side. A dark blue car attempted to race across the bridge toward U.S. forces but it was hit with heavy machine gun fire, which stopped it in the middle. Iraqi forces dressed in civilian clothes with blue or red kaffiyahs wrapped around their heads and faces scrambed between buildings, trying to sneak up on US troops on the city side of the bridge. The ground shook as mortars landed, and the smell of gunpowder filled the air. As the Americans began the cross the bridge, Iraqi troops tried to block it with civilian cars. Doesn't sound like we're pausing, does it? Good going guys, and stay safe.
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/31/2003 12:24 am ||
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"The prisoners told the Americans they belonged to the guard's Nebuchadnezzar Brigade, based in Saddam's home area of Tikrit, and they had the guard's triangular insignia."
? What were they doing South of Baghdad?
Posted by: John Anderson ||
03/31/2003 2:00 Comments ||
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#2
This is the first time since the war has started that I have heard anything mentioned about Tikrit. If it is saddams stronghold how come we haven't heard anything about it?
In the absence (until recently) of a northern front, regime seems to be shifting RG south. Medina, Nebuchad, and Bagdad divisions hold line west-east from Karbala-Hilla-Kut. Hammurabi holds line west of bagdad, NW of Karbala. Adnan, which came down from Kirkuk to Tikrit, is now moving closer to Bagdad. I dont know if this opens up options in the north.
#6
Actually the "Elite" is a given designation, as opposed to the "normal" Republican Guards. Sort of like the "Waffen SS" - politically reliable Nazi Party army units translated to Baathist loyal to Saddam, and the Leibstandarte SS which was sort of an "ethnically pure" Praetorian Guard for Hitler, translated to "Tikriti/Baathist" Brigades for Saddam.
The "Elite" are the only formations allowed to operate near government power centers. The slightly less politically reliable "run-of-the-mill" RGs stay on the outskirts, and are used to keep an eye on regular army units in peacetime.
A third component the Feydaheen Saddam basically acts like the Waffen-SS Totenkopf (simialr organization and dual purpose for internal supression "by any means neccesary" and external "high risk" war troops).
The Hamas Movement representative in Lebanon, Osama Hamdan, called on the Iraqi opposition to âexpiate its sins,â referring to its unity with the American and British forces in their attacks against Iraq. Hamdan was speaking during a festival held Saturday by the movement, at the Ain al-Hilweh refugee camp, in support of Iraq and Palestine. âThe American insolent threats to Syria convey real annoyance with the Syrian resistance position,â Hamdan said, adding that after the victory of Lebanon, the âAmericans and the Zionists strived to thwart the resistance attempts in achieving victory once again... We will not wait until Syria is aggressed, we consider this threat as a declaration of war against the resistance and the nation.â Hamdan stressed that any aggression against Syria, âthe center of resistance,â will extend beyond geographic borders, urging the Arab nation to follow the steps of Syria, Lebanon and Palestine in its resistance. Sure hope we take you up on that declaration of war, Mr Hamas Big...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 09:23 pm ||
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Hamas is screaming like a stuck pig - they no longer have a land route to their supporters in Iran. Same goes for the support from the Iraqi regieme.
Palestinian Islamic Jihad said Sunday it had sent a first wave of suicide bombers to Baghdad to help Iraqis fight US and British troops, as Iraq said more than 4,000 Arabs ready to âmartyrâ themselves had already arrived in the country. âThe Mujahideen who have come to Iraq have come from all Arab countries, without exception,â Iraqi military spokesman Hazim al-Rawi said. âWe are a believing people, a fighting people, Jihad is a must, a duty ordained by God.â "If you've got the infidels, we've got the boomers!"
Arab public opinion has been galvanized by Iraqâs unexpectedly strong military resistance to coalition forces, as well as images of dead civilians, including babies, and has enraged some Arabs to the point that they are ready to act as suicide bombers. âAl-Quds Brigades brings to our people and nation the good news of the arrival of its first martyrdom (attackers) to the heart of Baghdad,â a statement from the armed wing of Islamic Jihad said. âThis is to fulfill the holy duty of defending Arab and Muslim land,â it said. âIraq, we heed your call,â the statement said, adding that âit is one war from Najaf to Tulkarem and from Jenin to Baghdad.â I hope Mr Bush takes precisely the same position...
Islamic Jihadâs Lebanon representative, Abu Imad al-Rifai, confirmed the statement to Reuters. He said the suicide bombers had not come from Palestinian territories but from several countries.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 09:20 pm ||
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Thats funny, we send bombers to Baghdad too. Maybe, with luck, they will meet.
#2
who on earth did not expect the level of resistance niow being encountered in Iraq???... what planet do these people live on???
the only people "galvanizing the Arab public opinion" are the friggin spin meisters in the newsroom, who are spreading the rumor that we have met "stronger than expected resistance"... who in thier right mind expects people to give up on thier home turf so easily -- particularly when the man in charge doesn't give a flying crap about how many of his soldiers, citizens, women, or children you kill?!?!?
Posted by: steve ||
03/31/2003 23:01 Comments ||
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#3
Bombers to Baghad - sounds like the name of a punk rock group
Some 250 volunteers from the Baalbek area are believed to have headed to Iraq to participate in combat against the American and British armies, but it was unknown if they were to take part in suicide bombings or conventional armed resistance only. Sources familiar with the issue said that about 35 young men from the village of Nahleh, 200 from Arsal and a few others from Baalbek and its immediate surroundings, have traveled to Baghdad. Baalbek-Hermel MP Assem Qanso, speaking during a solidarity meeting with the Iraqi people in Baalbek on Sunday with several other MPs, made the claim that an undetermined ânumberâ of Bekaa residents had left for Iraq, to take part in the fight against the American and British forces. Qanso heads the pro-Syrian Baath Party in Lebanon.
Qanso and his fellow MP praised the anti-war stands of the Vatican and the positions of Lebanon, Syria and Iran. They also condemned the official Arab position and said threats were not only directed at Iraq but at the whole Arab nation. This is not the first time that young Lebanese men, mainly from the Bekaa, have gone to fight in Iraq. In the Iraq-Iran war, from 1980 to 1988, some 500 fighters fought alongside Iraq, some of them are still in captivity or missing. About a month and a half ago, Iran handed its last captured Lebanese to Hizbullah, a resident of Nahleh, from the Qais family. Guess they're determined never to learn...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 09:17 pm ||
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lets say for the sake of argument that 100 of those 250 actually have the gonads to blow themselves up... and lets say that half of them actually hit a target - with an average kill of 2 soldiers each... so, we are talking about a hundred or so of our fighting men lost to these morons... which is probably a huge over-estimation....
My advise to these nitwits is this - go home, father ONE child -- put enough money away to send that child to college in the US (don't worry, it won't cost much, with all of the financial assistance and govt money we will kick in)... Try to encourage the child to pursue a career in medicine, or some highly techincal field... when they have secured a good job, sell the sheep and move in with them in thier nice new home here in the US... trust me, you'll hurt the general US population more by doing that than you ever would blowing your stupid sorry ass up...
know what - forget it - give it a try - you may get lucky and actually get one of our guys before we blow your damn fool head off... good luck...
Posted by: steve ||
03/31/2003 23:10 Comments ||
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A senior Fatah commander in the Ain al-Hilweh Palestinian refugee camp denied Sunday a newspaper report that claimed he had dispatched hundreds of volunteer suicide bombers to Iraq to fight US and British coalition forces. Mounir Maqdah, a colonel in the Fatah faction of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat, admitted that âhundredsâ of volunteers had traveled independently from Palestinian camps in Lebanon along with Arabs from other countries to Iraq before the onset of the conflict. "I didn't send them. They just went."
But he said that he had had no part in the arrangements, adding that the movement of volunteers from Ain al-Hilweh to Iraq had ceased. Maqdah was responding to a report carried by the Jerusalem Post which quoted the Nazareth-based As-Sannarah newspaper as saying that the veteran Palestinian guerrilla commander had sent hundreds of his men to Baghdad to launch suicide attacks against American and British troops.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 09:12 pm ||
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A pickup truck loaded with extra fuel crashed into the perimeter wall of the British Embassy on Monday night, exploding in flames in what one witness said appeared to be a suicide attack. Police initially said the crash appeared to be an accident, in which the truck driver was killed but no one else was hurt. But later the city's security chief said the back of the vehicle was loaded with gallons of extra fuel. The director of security in Tehran's governor's office, Ali Ta'ala, did not say whether the incident was an attack on the embassy. He identified the driver as a 35-year-old employee in the Energy Ministry. The pickup truck left the main road and went through openings in metal barriers on either side of a bus lane that passes in front of the embassy wall. It hit the wall, a yard away from the main gate, and exploded.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 07:43 pm ||
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what a dumbass. probably didn't even leave a mark.
Posted by: g wiz ||
03/31/2003 21:04 Comments ||
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SYRIA has hit back at US criticism and come out firmly behind Iraq, branding the US-led invasion illegitimate and unjustified. The Syrian foreign ministry also accused Washington of catering to Israeli interests in the Middle East. They learn that stuff by rote, in grade school...
The comments came after US Secretary of State Colin Powell told Syria to cease its support for terrorism, suggesting it would otherwise face grave consequences. "Syria now faces a critical choice" of whether to "continue its direct support for terrorism in the dying days" of President Saddam Hussein's government in Iraq, he said. "Syria bears responsibility for its choices and consequences." Sounds like they've made their choice. Guess they won't mind the consequences...
Powell's comments to a pro-Israeli lobby came on the heels of an accusation by Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld that Syria was supplying Iraq with military equipment, including night-vision goggles. But a statement from Syria today said the nation had made its choice and was backing Iraq. "It is clear from (Powell's) speech that he was submitting a report on his latest achievements which confirm that what the US administration is doing in our region serves Israel and its interests and pleases (Israeli Prime Minister Ariel) Sharon," a Syrian foreign ministry spokesman said. "By doing that, the employees of this (US) administration get a report for good behaviour from Israel. Syria has chosen to be with international legality represented by the United Nations Security Council. Syria has also chosen to stand by the Iraqi people who are facing an illegitimate and unjustified invasion." No skin off my fore...
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 06:51 pm ||
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So, what units can we allocate for the Western front, landing in Lebanon and marching toward Baghdad, through Damascus?
Posted by: Old Patriot ||
03/31/2003 18:55 Comments ||
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Ah, now I know what we're going to do with the 4th Infantry Division!
Posted by: Steve White ||
03/31/2003 18:58 Comments ||
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Syria supports using ambulances and hospitals for military operations?
#5
Ya' know...everyone had high hopes that Syria would change it's attitude when Assad the younger came to power following his father's death. Too bad that didn;t happen.
Now, wth all the bluster and blowing that's going on it's likely to get even harder for Syria to stay out of this fight. They're likely to try to draw Israel in and blow this thing into the biggest war we've seen since WW2.
It's also likely that Damascus might end up glowing in the dark if they try it. Someone once told me that there's a prediction in the Bible that Damascus will end "in a flash of light and fire". I sure hope that doesn;t happen, but with friends like these...
#6
Dishman: "Syria supports using ambulances and hospitals for military operations?"
Well, yeah! Is anyone surprised?
Posted by: Barbara Skolaut ||
03/31/2003 21:48 Comments ||
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They're right. It's not a justified invasion like Syria's invasion of Lebanon.
Posted by: Former Russian Major ||
03/31/2003 22:56 Comments ||
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OK - if we wind up having to take down the Syrians... and the Iranians... and the Pakistanis... etc etc etc... can anyone see this NOT becoming a war on our OWN streets?... Guess we'd wind up with a TRUE holy war - in which case we'd be forced to introduce a whole LOT of these poor bastards to Allah personally... sigh
Posted by: steve ||
03/31/2003 22:57 Comments ||
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Well, If it gets much bigger, then Nukes are going to start flying. Someone is going to let one loose. The middle east is going to become the Worlds Great Parking Lot. Islam is screaming and yelling that they are ready to meet Allah. Well it might happen sooner than they had originally thought.
Posted by: George ||
04/01/2003 6:13 Comments ||
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Qom — A prominent Iranian cleric here on Sunday evening said that President George W. Bush ought to know that the world will not tolerate invasion and domination. Ayatollah Hossein Nouri Hamedani made the remark at a gathering of Qom Theological Seminary clerics held in this holy city. They got any cities there that aren't holy?
"Since the invasion by Zionists of the US Congress, Washington has invaded 16 world countries and this time it is the turn of Iraq," he pointed out. "We have never approved of the Saddam regime but at the same time the Islamic Republic of Iran does not also approve of the current war and the savage aggression being committed by US and British forces on the Iraqi people," he said, adding, "Our sympathy goes out to the oppressed people of Iraq." Wossamotta? You can't see any way to turn the war to your advantage?
Thwarting any revival of Islam and its spread to all parts of the world is the major objective behind the US-lead invasion on Iraq, he categorically said, adding that the US fully knows that Islam will oppose arrogance as shown in this unilaterally declared war. At the end of the one-day gathering, a resolution condemning the war and expressing sympathy to the Muslim nation of Iraq was issued by those who attended. The resolution called the war launched by the US and its allies as "illegitimate," and called on world bodies, including human rights organizations, to take measures to bring it to a speedy conclusion. Hokay. We know which side you're on, holy man. Now STFU.
Posted by: Fred Pruitt ||
03/31/2003 10:02 am ||
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"Invasion and domination" is one thing. Restoring the Caliphate is, like, this totally other thing. Yeah, I'm eyeballin' you, Andalusia!
Posted by: (lowercase) matt ||
03/31/2003 11:00 Comments ||
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I suspect that this is more about making the Persian Gulf safe for Persians than anything else. If Shiites are not cooperating with us due to orders from the leadership-in-exile, then that is a worrysome developement. It will be hard to put together any half-way representative transitional government lacking their participation. Without that, we don't win.
"I'd like some common sense please."
"Fresh outta that."
"What about personal responsibility?"
"What's that?" Sigh
"Well, what do you have?"
"We have jihad, jihad, jihad and jihad, jihad, and jihad."
"What about prosperity? Personal freedom?"
"We've got jihad, jihad, jihad, jihad and Spam, jihad, and jihad in a jihad sauce."
"But I don't like jihad."
"You don't like jihad? Hey, Ahmed, this evil, dirty, Zionist American, who wants to take over the world and is to blame for every short-coming EVER in the Arab world--past and present--says she doesn't like jihad!"
"Well, a jihad on her then".
#4
Recycled Commie joke:
"Don't you have common sense on floor 2?"
"No, on this floor we don't have personal responsibility. It's on floor 1 where we don't have common sense."
ALL triplets in North Korea are being forcibly removed from parents after their birth and dumped in bleak orphanages.
The policy is carried out on the orders of Stalinist dictator Kim Jong-il, who has an irrational belief that a triplet could one day topple his regime.
The number three is thought to be auspicious in North Korea and triplets are revered. It is believed they are likely to rise to positions of power, which accounts for Kim's insistence that they are all raised in state-run orphanages, where their development can be controlled.
Officially, the policy was introduced to help poverty-stricken parents in a country where hunger is widespread.
But aid agencies and diplomats have dismissed this: triplets born to high-ranking officials are also seized.
"There is no doubt that the policy is compulsory and universal," a veteran Western diplomat told London's Daily Telegraph newspaper.
"It may be officially atheistic and Stalinist, but North Korea essentially operates a state religion infused with superstition, astrology and a personality cult that glorifies Kim as a unique individual.
"You don't take any chances with rivals in that system," the diplomat said.
The children are housed in "triplet rooms", which visitors describe as bare but clean. They are said to receive good foreign-aid food, but none of the love and affection bestowed on most children.
A member of a foreign delegation that visited one such orphanage said they were greeted with a vision of desperate isolation and sadness.
The triplets were placed together in one room, with many of them rocking backwards and forwards in an almost trance-like state.
"Our people were stunned into silence," the delegate told the Telegraph.
A pediatrician who studied evidence from the visit diagnosed severe emotional trauma.
Delegates reported a high standard of care in the triplet rooms.
"But none of those infants knows what affection is," a delegate said. "Our staff tried to cuddle them for a few minutes, but then, of course, we had to leave."
The seizure of triplets is an extension of a policy designed to ensure absolute loyalty to Kim.
The children of all high-ranking government officials are taken from their parents at the age of two and transferred to state-controlled schools where family bonds are broken and devotion to Kim is instilled.
More than 300 sets of triplets are born in North Korea every year and their well-being has raised worries among aid agencies, despite official claims the policy represents an act of kindness.
In a statement to the UN Human Rights Commission in Geneva, North Korea said: "Triplets are supplied by the state free of charge with clothing, bedding, a one-year supply of dairy products and a pre-school subsidy, and special medical workers take charge of such mothers and children and care for their health."
Posted by: Dan Darling ||
03/31/2003 09:03 am ||
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"More than 300 sets of triplets are born in North Korea every year ..."
Any idea whether this represents a higher or lower percentage per capita than elsewhere, out of curiosity?
#2
"The children of all high-ranking government officials are taken from their parents at the age of two and transferred to state-controlled schools where family bonds are broken and devotion to Kim is instilled."
They're hostages until they're turned into Kim-drones. Simply incredible.
Posted by: Patrick Phillips ||
03/31/2003 9:53 Comments ||
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Humm, Kim seems to be reading The Rules For Evil Overlords: #69. Independent midwives will be banned from the realm. All babies will be delivered at state-approved hospitals. Orphans will be placed in foster-homes, not abandoned in the woods to be raised by creatures of the wild.
Posted by: Steve ||
03/31/2003 9:59 Comments ||
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"And Pharoah charged all his people, saying, Every son that is born ye shall cast into the river." EXODUS 1:22
What a nutter.
And yes, I had to look that up
Posted by: (lowercase) matt ||
03/31/2003 10:46 Comments ||
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Lessee, raising them in an environment almost guaranteed to produce maladjusted, deeply angry human beings who may have little sense of right or wrong. Yeah, sounds like a good strategy for people you're afraid might someday depose you....
Posted by: Joe ||
03/31/2003 11:08 Comments ||
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There must've been a North Korean Nostrodamus... and it sounds like Kimmie was a big fan.
Concern mounts as Tehran nears nuclear capability
Syria faces `critical choice,' Powell says
OLIVIA WARD It's not just Rumsfeld raising the profile of Syria and Iran.
JERUSALEMâWhile American and British forces are battling for victory against Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, the next targets are already flickering across the diplomatic radar.
Israeli strategists are hoping that one of the first will be Iran, and they are urging the United States to take measures to rein in Tehran's nuclear ambitions and its sponsorship of militants hostile to Israel. This weekend U.S. Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld accused Iran of sponsoring hundreds of exiled Iraqi Islamists who have been travelling over the Iranian border to fight against Saddam in Iraq.
"The Badr Corps is trained, equipped and directed by Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard," Rumsfeld said. "And we will hold the Iranian government responsible for their actions and will view Badr Corps activity inside Iraq as unhelpful." The Pentagon is also drawing up a blacklist of foreign companies that invested in Iran's energy sector, with a view to cutting them off from post-war reconstruction contracts for Iraq. In another signal of a possible widening war, U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell yesterday demanded Syria decide whether it wants to risk supporting Iraq, Associated Press reports.
"Syria ... now faces a critical choice," Powell said in a speech to a powerful U.S. Jewish lobby in Washington. "Syria can continue to direct support for terrorist groups and the dying regime of Saddam Hussein, or it can embark on a different and more hopeful course," he said. "Either way, Syria has the responsibility for its choices and for the consequences." Powell also warned Iran to halt its quest for weapons of mass destruction and reaffirmed the Bush administration's determination to oust Saddam.
His remarks drew strong applause from thousands of American Jews attending the American Israel Public Affairs Committee's policy conference. Turning to Iran â which Bush has denounced as a member of an "axis of evil" along with Iraq and North Korea â Powell said it must stop its support of terrorism against Israel and ``Iran must stop its pursuit of weapons of mass destruction and the ability to produce them.''Tensions between Washington and Tehran have been rising since Bush's denunciation. The "axis-of-evil" label dismayed reformers in Iran, where political power is split between conservative mullahs and a more liberal elected president.
But Western anxiety about the possible development of a nuclear bomb has eclipsed fears of disturbing the delicate balance of power, and the war in Iraq has only boosted Washington's unease about Tehran's nuclear intentions. "Once the clerics have a nuclear weapon they could more aggressively try to influence Iraq's political system, which will hardly be set in stone two years from now," wrote March Gerecht, a former CIA officer, in the New York Times.
Israel's worries go back farther than the Iraq war. "Iran is marching forward to the first generation of nuclear capability, and missile delivery capability," says Dr. Uzi Arad, former head of analysis for the Mossad, Israel's foreign intelligence service. "That is very troubling." Over the past decade, Iran has poured money and resources into the development of the 2,000-kilometre-range Shihab-4 missile capable of striking at Israel, and is said to be working on even longer-range ones.
"Iran has passed the point of no return," says Uzi Rubin of the Jerusalem Centre for Public Affairs. "The Iranians cannot be stopped anymore. They will continue with their programs regardless of what the international community thinks." Equally worrying, says Arad, is the parallel development of a nuclear program that Israeli intelligence services believe is proceeding at a steady pace toward a viable bomb. "Clearly you do not develop missiles to carry conventional warheads," he said.
Iran is well placed to become the next nuclear-armed country, after India and Pakistan. It has its own uranium, a vital bomb ingredient, and will soon be capable of enriching it into fuel for a nuclear bomb. Furthermore, Tehran has refused to give the International Atomic Energy Agency access to sites and scientific records that could confirm or deny that it has a nuclear weapons program. Last year, the watchdog agency discovered centrifuge plants for processing nuclear fuel at a secret site south of Tehran, ringing alarm bells in Washington.
When the plants are operational, they will be capable of generating enough weapons-grade uranium for a number of nuclear warheads. Israel and Washington have pointed fingers at Russia, which they say helped to speed up Iran's nuclear progress by supplying nuclear fuel and expertise for the 1,000-megawatt reactor at Bushehr. Moscow initially denied that Iran's intentions were anything but peaceful, but now says it was "not informed" of less innocent developments. Since the war with Iraq loomed, American relations with Moscow have deteriorated. Bush has so far avoided any confrontation but he has taken a strong stand against Tehran.
America's adversarial stance and its invasion of Iraq have sparked protests and anti-U.S. feeling not seen since the radical days of the Ayatollah Khomeini. Hundreds of thousands of Iranians took to the street last week, chanting "death to America" and demanding that the British embassy be closed down. The U.S. has had no diplomatic ties with Tehran since 1979 when the American embassy was stormed by Khomeini's militant supporters and its staff was held hostage. Although Iran has no love for Saddam, with whom it fought a devastating eight-year war, many Iranians find a U.S. occupation of a neighbouring Islamic country unacceptable.
Israel, meanwhile, is keeping a wary eye on Iran, which many here believe is at least as dangerous to Israeli security as Iraq. Although politicians have refrained from calling for a military assault, they have urged that some action be taken against Iran. "I'm not building a case for any concrete line of action," says Arad. "But there is a problem growing and festering along the lines of Iraq."
Posted by: kgb ||
03/31/2003 05:05 am ||
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"The Pentagon is also drawing up a blacklist of foreign companies that invested in Iran's energy sector, with a view to cutting them off from post-war reconstruction contracts for Iraq." Sounds like a Franco-German opportunity. That'll leave the Iranians with a nice warm and feelie. Let's compound the sh*t list standing of all parties concerned.
Posted by: Don ||
03/31/2003 9:06 Comments ||
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A multi-volume chronology and reference guide set detailing three years of the Mexican Drug War between 2010 and 2012.
Rantburg.com and borderlandbeat.com correspondent and author Chris Covert presents his first non-fiction work detailing
the drug and gang related violence in Mexico.
Chris gives us Mexican press dispatches of drug and gang war violence
over three years, presented in a multi volume set intended to chronicle the death, violence and mayhem which has
dominated Mexico for six years.
Rantburg was assembled from recycled algorithms in the United States of America. No
trees were destroyed in the production of this weblog. We did hurt some, though. Sorry.
