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2006-03-28 Home Front: Politix

The Ethnic Cleansing of Mexicans in the United States

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Posted by Anonymoose 2006-03-28 09:45|| || Front Page|| [11139 views since 2007-05-07] Top

#1 Mexicans are good for us

Posted by bk 2006-03-28 10:45|| 2006-03-28 10:45|| Front Page Top

#2 Ethnic cleansing is a politically-loaded term. If we're going to use such terms, let me propose my own - my word for what happens when a distinct people enter a country in large number without permission from the natives is colonization. Thus, when we push Mexican illegal aliens out, what we are accomplishing is "decolonization", not "ethnic cleansing".

Note that no legislator has proposed a wide-ranging guest worker program covering people from all-over the world. The guest worker program covers just Mexico. So all this political rhetoric is merely intended to mask the reality that Congress has apparently decided to legislate Manifest Destiny in reverse - Mexico will now colonize the US instead.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2006-03-28 11:09|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2006-03-28 11:09|| Front Page Top

#3 We get a lot of immigrants, legal and illegal, from many countries around the world. Mexicans are the only ones I know that cheer for bin Laden at US-Mexican sporting events.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2006-03-28 11:16|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2006-03-28 11:16|| Front Page Top

#4 Once you compare the mexican issue to ethnic cleansing in Bosnia-Herzegovina your argument loses it's credibility. I have several questions for you; What is your solution?It's fun to gripe and not have a solution.Democrats are great at it. I think the current bill is a band-aid over a gunshot wound. But I also believe that illegals should be returned to their own country. Whether or not their children have grown up here is no argument, it simply means that they have escaped being prosecuted for a crime. That's the first word there, illegal. I would also ask you why is it that many of the protesters who seem so adament to stay in the states but haven't learned to integrate within our culture by learning the language. This is a situation where I believe we can look at Austria or Switzerland as a model for fixing our problem. Allow them to stay. Give them one year to learn the history and culture, to learn the language, and then test them. If they fail,ship them home. Why would you want to pay for someone when they don't contribute?

Posted by luusbueb 2006-03-28 11:17|| 2006-03-28 11:17|| Front Page Top

#5 Many of their children were raised in the United States, have never lived in Mexico, and don't even speak Spanish. Would you round up an equal number of caucasian children and dump them in Mexico?

I would if they're MEXICANS.

Posted by mojo">mojo 2006-03-28 12:41|| 2006-03-28 12:41|| Front Page Top

#6 As someone who is both more involved with the immigration nightmare than I would wish to be (still waiting on my sweetie's green card, and that's after we have followed through on all the paperwork demanded of us), and a native of a state that is literally getting overrun while the feds screw around (Arizona), allow me my two cents.

The idea that our government is "ethnically cleansing" Mexicans shows just how much this author does not understand what that term really means. I have yet to hear ANYONE state that the way to solve the problem is to "kill 'em all! Let God sort 'em out!" The government from time to time says they will send them back, but everyone knows it's a joke and rarely happens.

Quite frankly, my sweetie is at more risk of getting sent back, which I find ironic and more than a little disgusting, considering we have been following the damn rules from the start. Tell me why my sweetie should worry more about deportation than someone who broke the law to get here should, because it makes no damn sense to me whatsoever.

Misdemeanors are criminal offenses. If you can potentially spend time in jail, which is definitely possible under AZ law in that case, it's a criminal offense. Committing misdemeanors on a repeated basis (forget the sneaking across bit...they almost always were driving without a license, without insurance, without registration, and the list goes on...), is hardly "law-abiding".

As for their kids, most of them grow up speaking some kind of weird pidgin Spanglish. Trust me, I know. I used to translate for police officers in Phoenix....no way was a lot of what I heard regular, everyday Mexican Spanish, or even normal English. And I hate to break it to you, but unless they were born here, or got naturalized, they're not Americans.

As for the Spanish speaking only part, yeah, I admit, I got annoyed about having to come out and translate for someone who had been here ten or more years. My sweetie has been here for a little over three and is fluent in English....what the hell is that lazy troll's excuse, when there are free English classes offered all over Phoenix and other major cities?

The three to ten million you refer to, as much as you may not like to admit it, are breaking the law, are draining the budgets of rural counties along the border for law enforcement and public hospital costs, and aren't all here just to work and send money back to Mexico.

Our Immigration "service" is a pain in the ass, but to imply that it is totally impossible to follow the rules and be here legally is a slap in the face to the millions like me and my sweetie who are doing just that.

Posted by Desert Blondie 2006-03-28 12:49|| http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com]">[http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com] 2006-03-28 12:49|| Front Page Top

#7 I am also opposed to forcing "law-abiding, working, peaceful Mexican people out of the US." Illegal immigrants don't qualify. "Illegal" and "law abiding" are mutually exclusive.

I feel badly for the kids caught in the middle of this, but their parents knowingly created the situation, not those here legally.

Allowing people willing to break the law to the head of the line for legal status seem self-evidently foolish. Perhaps I'm not "nuanced" enough.

Posted by VAMark 2006-03-28 13:02|| 2006-03-28 13:02|| Front Page Top

#8 DB - I can relate to what you are saying. We just received the Perm. GC for my wife. Its a pain in the ass to deal with the INS. We had background checks, inteviews, medical exams (for her), police checks, and I had to sign a Affadavit of Support (which I am still under and will be until she either becomes a citizen or works for 10 years...).

There is a reason that the process is difficult. One is for security (background checks, interview), Two is for Health (medical), Three is to control the influx of immigrants (limits), Four is for finanical (so they don't end up on welfare or free-medical).

And they want illegal aliens to get in for free? No backgroud checks, no medical, no interview, and proven LAWBREAKERS? Oh and we have to pay for their medical, and schooling, and welfare too....

So that means that MOST of those who leave voluntarily won't ever be able to come back.

I take this to mean that they probable won't be able to pass the medical or interview or background checks...

And why does the guest worker program only apply to Mexicans? Why not Canadians, or Filipinos, or Chinese, or Indians? Why only Mexicans? Isn't that racist?

Posted by CrazyFool 2006-03-28 14:09|| 2006-03-28 14:09|| Front Page Top

#9 Tell me why my sweetie should worry more about deportation than someone who broke the law to get here should, because it makes no damn sense to me whatsoever.

Because it isn't about following the rules; it's about power.

Which, frankly, sucks.

Posted by Robert Crawford">Robert Crawford 2006-03-28 14:59|| http://www.kloognome.com/]">[http://www.kloognome.com/] 2006-03-28 14:59|| Front Page Top

#10 Amnesty is probably the biggest point of contention. On the one hand you don't want to reward law breaking. On the other hand it makes little sense to send back a million illegal Mexicans only to replace them with a million legal Mexicans. Ironically, the million illegals are preferable in many ways. They already have jobs, families, and more cultural familiarity (including English skills) than the million who would replace them.

So how about we let them stay -- just as soon as they pay up all their back taxes and go through the entire legal immigration process. That takes away much of the advantage of having come here illegally. It would also provide a great deal of useful information for prosecuting those who have been employing illegals.

Posted by Iblis">Iblis 2006-03-28 15:00|| 2006-03-28 15:00|| Front Page Top

#11 CF, nothing says love like signing that Affidavit of Support, right? ;)

Good point about the guest worker program. I hadn't thought of that.

Iblis, isn't that the program that McCain was suggesting? It sounds a lot like it.

Posted by Desert Blondie 2006-03-28 15:28|| http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com]">[http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com] 2006-03-28 15:28|| Front Page Top

#12
We should expel the Mexicans to Canada.

Posted by Master of Obvious 2006-03-28 15:32|| 2006-03-28 15:32|| Front Page Top

#13 Just make it a felony to hire illegals.

Posted by Formerly Dan 2006-03-28 15:51|| 2006-03-28 15:51|| Front Page Top

#14 "We've gotta protect our phoney-baloney jobs, gentlemen, we must do something about this immediately!"

Life imitating art. There is absolutely no motivation in any of this for the absolute base corrupt ruling patron political culture to stop in anyway the dumping of even more millions of its unemployed citizenry upon the United States. With double digit unemployment and an economy that sucks because of entrench xenophobic policies, its in the absolute interests of the political structure of Mexico to protect its power by making sure those who would in any other time be motivated for revolutionary reform are sent away. All this does is enable the continuation of the existing underlying causal factors which means once again in another 10 years well have the same problem with 20 million. Fraud, pure and simple.

Posted by Hupineter Angailing7601 2006-03-28 16:34|| 2006-03-28 16:34|| Front Page Top

#15 DB - dont mind the Affadavit - we are commited to each other in ways far beyond financial :).

Iblis - I hear what you are saying but... Well for one the million legal immigrants are law-abiding which, by definition, the illegals aren't. The legals have patiently 'waited their turn' and proven that they really want to immigrate here and contribute to society - the illegals have proven that they don't care about the 'rules' :).

And why should an illegal ~~immigrant~~ alien be allowed to 'cut-in-line' before a law-abiding person who is following the proper procedures and has been patently waiting for (sometimes) years? This would encourage even more illegal aliens -- just as it has in the past.

I don't think its possible to deport all the illegals. But we should discourge them by making (as formally Dan mentioned) it a felony to hire illegals (and make it pierce the corprate veil in some cases), remove 'free' medical' except for life-threatening situations, require proof of citizenship / residence for schools, no instant citizenship for babies born of an illegal alien, and cut funding to 'sainctuary cities'.

Posted by CrazyFool 2006-03-28 16:55|| 2006-03-28 16:55|| Front Page Top

#16 Haven't we deported Mexicans all the way down to the Guatemalan border, just to make it farther for them to come back across? I heard that, but I haven't checked it via Snopes, so I could be, you know, wrong.

Posted by eLarson 2006-03-28 16:58|| http://larsonian.blogspot.com]">[http://larsonian.blogspot.com] 2006-03-28 16:58|| Front Page Top

#17 "Ethnic cleansing wrapped in velvet" seems to have gone by the wayside already, based on what has been done in Washington today. However, the entire argument is secondary to the one big issue:

Preventing additional illegal immigration.

That is, quit messing around and build that wall. If that is done, and the number of Mexican illegals can be slowed to a trickle, the intensity of the problem in the US fades, and fades quickly.

The US absorbed illegal Mexicans for decades at some cost, but we were able to do it. Only when Vincente Fox's forced emigration for the PPP came into effect, with hundreds of thousands forced from their lands and sent North, did the situation really become intolerable.

If slowed to a trickle, the likes of which hasn't been seen since the 1950s, suddenly everything changes. Several things to look forward to:

1) Illegals cannot be left illegal in such vast numbers. Business wants them to remain illegal, because they cannot unionize, or receive any other benefit beyond minimum wage or below. In short order, illegal workers will be in shortage around the country, and they will no longer be willing to be exploited like that. Simple supply and demand.

2) The 2nd generation "Spanglish", who are typically problematic, will be far less so in a strong job market. The chance for advancement and prosperity will neutralize a lot of their "fish out of water" frustrations.

3) The 3rd generation "Amerimex", by dint of a closed border, will disconnect from Mexico even faster than usual.

4) Bloody Mexican civil war. Lots of the people at the border will no longer be economic immigrants, but refugees. Already and by the next Mexican Presidential election, the situation may be out of hand, with leftist radicals coming to power, and possibly Mexico joining the leftist nations of South America.

For this last reason, especially, it is imperitive that the wall be erected ASAP. It may otherwise turn into a situation of refugees running from Mexican machine guns towards American machine guns.

Posted by Anonymoose 2006-03-28 17:54|| 2006-03-28 17:54|| Front Page Top

#18 Try making a living in the construction business and you might just take a dim view on illegals. They drive the wage down to that of 7-11 workers and start giving the boss big ideas.

Posted by Shise Whegum6602 2006-03-28 18:44|| 2006-03-28 18:44|| Front Page Top

#19 Anonymoose: Business wants them to remain illegal, because they cannot unionize, or receive any other benefit beyond minimum wage or below.

Illegals get much better than minimum wage. In most cases, they get the same pay as other people in the same industry. The way they do it is by getting false papers. Even the ones who don't get false papers get better than minimum wage - day laborers in New York get $10 an hour (documented by none other than the New York Times, which is pro-illegal alien). Employers like having a large number of immigrants around - legal or otherwise - it provides a bigger over pool of labor to hire from, which depresses wages. This glut of labor is why wages in many low-skill service industries that can't be outsourced have declined on an inflation-adjusted basis over the past quarter century.* The reason Bush is conniving with Congress to avoid enforcing immigration laws is to do an end-run around what the electorate feels is already too much legal immigration - 1m people per year.

* As a conservative, I have no compunction about crushing unions - it would be fine with me if unions were outlawed altogether. But conspiring to keep the wages of the bottom segment of society low by encouraging excessive immigration is just dirty pool.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2006-03-28 18:46|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2006-03-28 18:46|| Front Page Top

#20 "I'm more than a little disturbed by some of the overt xenophobia and racism that is really cropping up around the US."

It really doesnt matter how many times someone qualifies his or her statements play the race card. It will do nothing to further intelligent discussion but it might persuade others that your opponents motivations are based on an irrational emotion. Besides it is really tedious to actually support your argument with facts.

Posted by DepotGuy 2006-03-28 19:22|| 2006-03-28 19:22|| Front Page Top

#21 xenophobia?

How about right out of the Mexican Constitution -

Article 33 - Foreigners are those who do not possess the qualities determined in Article 30. They have the right to the guarantees of Chapter I of the first title of this Constitution, but the Executive of the Union has the exclusive right to expel from the national territory, immediately and without necessity of judicial proceedings, all foreigners whose stay it judges inconvenient. Foreigners may not, in any manner, involve themselves in the political affairs of the country.*Though the Mexican government does so regularly through its consulates.

I. Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican associations have the right to obtain ownership of lands, waters, and their accessories, or to obtain mining or ground water concessions.

Posted by Hupemble Ebbeart5282 2006-03-28 19:51|| 2006-03-28 19:51|| Front Page Top

#22 DepotGuy: Playing the race card applies only when you are falsely accusing people of racism. My point is that while you (someone) may have very strong opinions about an ethnic group, usually you hold your tongue in public, because not to do so is seen as impolite behavior.

However, when people no longer control themselves, when they will state before a stranger their feelings, *and* propose a radical attack on people solely based on their race, then, by god, it is not the "race card", it *is* racism.

I even heard someone jokingly ask why are we going to throw out all the Mexicans? We should start with the "niggers" first, because Mexicans are hard workers. Said in a convenience store, in front of several people, and without hesitation or concern. This is not a good sign.

But as I said, the #1 complaint is that they speak Spanish, instead of English. But that is not a legal-illegal thing. I have known naturalized American citizens who only knew a few words of English after living in the US much of their lives. They mostly relied on their children's proficiency for things they didn't understand.

My bottom line to all of this is to stop any more immigration now, with which I'm sure most of you agree. My argument is that once we do so, most of the problems we see right now will evaporate--no need to do much of anything other than let nature take its course.

Posted by Anonymoose 2006-03-28 20:07|| 2006-03-28 20:07|| Front Page Top

#23 Anonymoose: I'm more than a little disturbed by some of the overt xenophobia and racism that is really cropping up around the US.

Here we go again with politically-loaded terms. If there is any xenophobia and racism, it's against illegal aliens who are *not* Mexican. If we're going to have an open borders policy with Mexico, why not also have an open borders policy with respect to the rest of the world? Why discriminate in favor of Mexico? If we're going to have an amnesty, let's have one that does not discriminate in favor of Mexicans - let's have a quota of 40,000 Mexicans, 40,000 Poles, 40,000 Taiwanese, etc. Or does Bush think Poles or Taiwanese won't work as hard as Mexicans?

Posted by Zhang Fei 2006-03-28 20:23|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2006-03-28 20:23|| Front Page Top

#24 Uh, no, Anonymoose. Cut off the illegal immigration. Don't punish the ones playing by the rules because a bunch refuse to.

America was built by immigrants and their children. It's part of what has made this country great. The difference between people like my grandparents and my sweetie and the illegals are that the first category doesn't treat America like a giant ATM. They actually want to build lives here and contribute, sometimes even creating jobs and building companies. The illegals just make some cash, send it all home, don't learn the language, and leave after they make their pile.

Please cut the crap about everyone who thinks that there should be penalties for being here illegally are racists. That's as stupid as basing your entire argument on one moron's idiotic comments in a 7-11.

Posted by Desert Blondie 2006-03-28 20:38|| http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com]">[http://azjetsetchick.blogspot.com] 2006-03-28 20:38|| Front Page Top

#25 Personally I think Anonymoose lost the arguement with the title about ethnic cleansing since nobody has ever, for a second, discussed tossing out US citizens of Mexican decent. Choosing an overly charged word normally associated with death camps, and then misusing it, is to create a strawman the size of king kong.

In America we look at this debate backwards. We look at the tiny number of poor Mexicans that come to the US and forget about the hundreds of millions who stayed behind in poverty because the safety-valve of illegal immigration prevented political and economic reform.

Posted by rjschwarz">rjschwarz 2006-03-28 20:39|| 2006-03-28 20:39|| Front Page Top

#26 rjschwarz: We look at the tiny number of poor Mexicans that come to the US and forget about the hundreds of millions who stayed behind in poverty because the safety-valve of illegal immigration prevented political and economic reform.

Mexico's population is only 106m.

Posted by Zhang Fei 2006-03-28 20:49|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2006-03-28 20:49|| Front Page Top

#27 Zhang Fei and Desert Blondie: A fence is to keep out illegal aliens, not legal immigrants. The racism I have seen is solely directed at Mexicans. It is on the street, not a matter of government policy, at least not yet. The government has long had *official* policies of racism towards many countries and peoples, but that is another matter.

And rjschwarz: how many dozens of misdemeanors have you committed in your life without real punishment?

I mean the petty stuff like traffic offenses, jaywalking, etc. Would you think it fair to be taken from your home, lose all equity in it, have your children taken out of school, and the lot of you sent to a third-world country because of an offense you committed 10 years ago? Not a serious felony, mind you, but a misdemeanor?

And yet, that is de facto what was being considered for between 3-10 million people living in the US.

What in hell do you call deporting that many people other than "ethnic cleansing?" "Asking them to leave nicely?" That's all the Serbians initially tried to do--force out the people they didn't want. The killing part only came when they didn't want to leave.

Actually, Hitler just wanted to deport the Jews, too. He tried a bunch of ways just to send them out of Germany as undesireables.

"But they are *criminals*!" I keep hearing that argument. That is nonsensical. They have paid for any criminal acts committed against this country many times over by being horribly abused by employers, and shunned from any legal recourse because they were "illegal".

What price do you put on being denied justice? Of not being able to stand up against abuse without being deported as a "troublemaker" or "unionist." Of not being able to secure a loan even with 100% collateral. No insurance. No medical care except in an emergency room or free clinic. No driver's license. Being denied credit. Etc.

When that wall is erected, the US is almost going to have to increase the number of legal immigrant applications, and do so quickly. Shortly thereafter, it will probably have to relax many of the requirements for legal immigrants, too.

But I see no real problem with any immigrants, legal or not, already in the US staying here, except for violent criminals and the insane or diseased. Good for the legal immigrants--they have gone through the process, so they should get the perks of citizenship quickly. The illegals will have to wait a good long time for theirs.

Once things have settled down, including the murderous massacres down in Mexico proper, maybe they will someday get a government competant and honest enough so their people will want to live there.

Posted by Anonymoose 2006-03-28 21:28|| 2006-03-28 21:28|| Front Page Top

#28 Anonymoose: The racism I have seen is solely directed at Mexicans.

Mexicans are being targeted because they are the largest group of illegal, unassimilated immigrants around. How many Polish radio stations are there? How many Chinese? And how many Spanish? Only Mexican immigrants have the potential to change the nature of this country because of their raw numbers - to turn the United States into Mexico. Nobody thinks Polish or Chinese immigrants are going to turn the US into Poland or China - because there just aren't that many of them. But the tens of millions of unassimilated Mexican immigrants have the potential to turn this country into just another United Mexican State.

But the bottom line concerns fairness. How is it fair that Mexicans, who cheer for bin Laden at US-Mexico sporting events, get a special place in front of the line? Just because you encounter racism against Mexicans doesn't make it fair that Mexicans get preferential treatment to enter this country. I'm sure that after 9/11, a lot of Muslims encounter prejudice as well - should we also start importing millions of Muslims from around to world to atone for our lack of sensitivity? Asians are extremely prejudiced against blacks - should we pressure Asian countries to take in millions of African immigrants?

Posted by Zhang Fei 2006-03-28 21:58|| http://timurileng.blogspot.com]">[http://timurileng.blogspot.com] 2006-03-28 21:58|| Front Page Top

#29 Yeah, it's definitely about fairness. And it's not fair to the average American. My credit-union ATM greets me with the option of Ingles or Espanol.
No, goddamnit, not "English," it really does say "Ingles."
The civil service exam in my county grants 1 fifth more preference to people demonstrating competency in Spanish. The legal, Hispanic-descent population here is less than 1%.

Why all this? It doesn't matter that the Hispanic kids learn some kind of Spanglish, because they don't have to use it. La Raza is colonizing NA slowly but surely, and the appeasing bootlickers will be ground under its heel just like the rest of us if we don't cleanse this place of illegals FAST.

Posted by Some Dude 2006-03-28 23:14|| 2006-03-28 23:14|| Front Page Top

#30 To me this is all a no brainer. RANT ON: First, build the wall - make that fucker nice and high and anchored way deep into old terra firma. Second, plug any gaps w/combined federal law/border control and U.S. military. Next, round up all illegals and deport - I know this will be hard and unpopular - I could give a shit - these folks made a conscious decision to disrespect our laws as well as our sovereingty. They go to the end of the legal immigration line as well - no negotiation. Also, make it a federal offense to employ illegals, help illegals into the country, or coming into the country illegally. If any big U.S. city refuses to work w/the feds on this then pull their fed funding immediately. For every illegal we catch or have to deport we charge that parent country or deduct $2,000.00 for each case out of their respective aid packages - too bad vicente, keep your house in order or we will do it for you, just like you do on your own southern border - you fucking hypocrite. Including the 70,000 Irish - and I'm about as Irish in ancestry as you get. Next, a child born by illegals on U.S. soil will no longer be given automatic citizenship status - what a stupid out dated law. Finally, reduce legal immigration to the educated or professional workers from other countries. Further, this doesn't include their extended family especially their over 60 yrs old family members who immediately jump on a social security system they never paid a dime into.

We also don't need anymore cabbies or a population the size of india or china. Yes folks, Americans will do these jobs. Don't believe the b.s. that only illegals will do this type of work. We may pay a little more for legal American labor but I guarantee someone will do that job. The market always finds a way to fix itself - it just doesn't let a gap or opportunity to make money go unfilled - supply and demand, right? Or, people can get reaquainted w/mowing their own fucking lawns, staying home for a meal, or doing their own landscaping - I know too many fellow Americans who are fat asses and could prolly use the exercise anyhow (but that's another rant).

Now, if our politicians are so swayed by big business to keep their illegal addiction or if the libz want to pander for illegal votes then what the fuck did I go to Iraq for? To come back and see some illegal alien or even a naturalized citizen in my country waving the mexican/honduran/& or guatamalan flag and holding up traffic in L.A.? To see people who should not even be here protest lawful American laws and whine like little babies because we are actually going to enforce a lawful standard? I hate to say it but we've got some real pussies in office at all levels. I find it hard to believe there is even a debate about what to do. If our elected officials were truly patriots they would do the hard and unpopular things to uphold our laws and sovereingty instead of making us mexico's half-way house (who btw are the sole benficiaries of geography while every other hopeful wannabe *legal immigrant* is fucked by not being parked right south of the U.S.) and the flop house for all illegal aliens. I will not even qualify any of this with saying how much I like hispanics or how I have nothing against mexicans or whatever it is that every rino feels the need to say so that the left doesn't call them the R word - that's so lame. Our country is at a crossroads, do we follow the rule of law or the rule of man? I love my country dearly but am afraid that our elected goverment officials have become too morally weak to do the right thing in this case. RANT OFF.

Posted by Broadhead6 2006-03-28 23:35|| 2006-03-28 23:35|| Front Page Top

23:56 Crap
23:54 Crap
23:52 BigEd
23:35 Broadhead6
23:23 Fred
23:14 Some Dude
22:45 mac
22:19 RD
22:12 Old Patriot
22:12 Old Patriot
22:10 RD
21:58 Zhang Fei
21:49 Slotle Sloluck9318
21:38 Sleth Hupaise1082
21:33 trailing wife
21:32 trailing wife
21:30 trailing wife
21:28 Anonymoose
21:24 Beau
21:21 Eric Jablow
21:21 Darrell
21:13 Redneck Jim
20:49 Zhang Fei
20:40 Redneck Jim