Article

2008-02-22 Home Front Economy

Arizona to become 'Persian Gulf' of solar energy

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Posted by gorb 2008-02-22 13:14|| || Front Page|| [4 views ] Top

#1 Gila Bend is like a freaking oven during the summer.. sticky asphalt

Posted by Frank G">Frank G 2008-02-22 14:15|| 2008-02-22 14:15|| Front Page Top

#2 Wait for the eco freaks to start protesting.....

Posted by USN, Ret. 2008-02-22 14:44|| 2008-02-22 14:44|| Front Page Top

#3 Hope it's not near McCain's place and screws up his view. We all know what happens when that's the case.
Isn't that right, Senator Kennedy?

Posted by tu3031 2008-02-22 15:03|| 2008-02-22 15:03|| Front Page Top

#4 Gila Bend still looks like it did in the 1960s. A wreck of a town, covered with petroleum soaked dirt, scorched by the sun. Many years ago, the UFO-themed "Space Age Lodge" was the largest, and classiest building in town. It still is, but add 40 years with no repair, no landscaping, and peeling paint:

http://www.doney.net/aroundaz/DA_gilabend.jpg

Posted by Anonymoose 2008-02-22 15:20|| 2008-02-22 15:20|| Front Page Top

#5 "There is no reason that Arizona should not be the Persian Gulf of solar energy"

Not unless they've perfected those "solar sailers" to transport the excess to other markets.

Posted by Almost Anonymous5839">Almost Anonymous5839 2008-02-22 16:04|| 2008-02-22 16:04|| Front Page Top

#6 Fine if you live nearby, line losses prevent travel much over 100 miles without unacceptable losses.

Posted by Redneck Jim 2008-02-22 16:08|| 2008-02-22 16:08|| Front Page Top

#7 At least they don't need batteries from China and elsewhere to buffer and store power for nighttime use. In addition I suspect that most of the power load for the Phoenix area is during the day and evening for AC. But the greens will probably kill this because of environmental concerns (no greenery underneath due to fire considerations, birds getting roasted and where will the tortoise and other critters live? sarc?).

Now all they will need is water for the growing population.

Posted by Throger Thains8048 2008-02-22 17:13|| 2008-02-22 17:13|| Front Page Top

#8 A Spanish company is planning to take 3 square miles of desert southwest of Phoenix and turn them into one of the largest solar power plants in the world.

But nowhere do they mention that in so doing, they utterly destroy 3 square miles of desert habitat. A coal fired power plant would produce more energy and destroy less habitat.

Posted by crosspatch 2008-02-22 19:03|| 2008-02-22 19:03|| Front Page Top

#9 Some magic math in those numbers. First, powering 70,000 homes while claiming a 280MW power figure. Since 1KW/home is the standard figure, the plant most likely only produces 70MW average over a 24 period. So $1000M for 70MW w/ 280MW peak possible.

Second, a coal fired power plant is quoted at $1000/KW. So $500M or $1000M for 500MW or 1000MW respectively with over 90% operating capacity.

So to scale this solar plant to produce 450MW average it would cost $6400M with Zero fuel cost but higher maintenance cost (just the Windex bill alone). But the 500MW coal plant going full blast would use 500tons/hour or 3.94M tons coal/year at 90% duty cycle. At $28.5/ton the fuel bill comes out to $112M/year. But the much greater solar plant cost $5400 at 7% interest comes out to $378M/year, a difference of $266M/year. So w/o vast subsidies there is no hope of competing with a run of the mill coal plant, even if the solar plant was going full blast in the afternoon and receiving peak period electric rates.

Posted by ed 2008-02-22 20:40|| 2008-02-22 20:40|| Front Page Top

#10 Solar power is best used for marginal energy, as a complement to the grid, not to replace it. For example, in the desert southwest, the crawlspace of a ranch house can easily hit 150 degrees. But if you use an ordinary solar powered fan to blow out the hot air, it might drop that temperature to a balmy 105 degrees.

But by doing so, it strongly reduces the load on your a/c, and saves the big bucks. While there is no way it could power your a/c, just that alone may knock a hundred dollars off your a/c bill.

A major thing that solar power could do is electrolysis of water to get hydrogen and oxygen. Not for energy at all, but to use the oxygen to sterilize pool water instead of chlorine. Bottled oxygen is currently used by the US Olympic team for just this purpose.

A similar process, using solar energy to power a fuel cell, can also split hydrogen and oxygen using much less energy. But then, the hydrogen and oxygen can be recombined to make pure water. This could provide a lot of distilled water for household use.

Again, if used wisely, solar power is a great help.

Posted by Anonymoose 2008-02-22 21:09|| 2008-02-22 21:09|| Front Page Top

#11 Thermal solar gets partially around the problem of storing solar energy for when the sun doesn't shine. Peak electricity consumption in most places is still the evening.

Even though the numbers don't add up versus coal, it still makes a lot more sense than wind, biofuels and photovoltaics, with the big advantage it scales easily and should get progressively cheaper over time and with larger and more systems deployed. It could also be a co-generation plant with say coal.

Posted by phil_b 2008-02-22 21:53|| 2008-02-22 21:53|| Front Page Top

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