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2008-02-28 Olde Tyme Religion

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Posted by anonymous5089 2008-02-28 03:25|| || Front Page|| [11133 views ] Top

#1 Whilst I mostly agree with this, the scientific method, in the sense of inquiry into the properties of the natural world, came to us from the ancient Greeks.

I'm not interested in a theological debate, but anyone familiar with the history of western thought will know how Christian theology results in large part from the belief that 'the ancients knew everything' and everything since then was 'the Fall'.

There is a large kernel of truth to this. The ancient Greeks did know more than people for nearly the next 2,000 years.

Interestingly, while the Arab empires retained far more of the Greek written texts than did the West. As these ancient Greeks texts translated into Arabic became available in the West, it was a catalyst to the rejection of 'there is no new knowledge' view that had dominated Western thought for a millenia, i.e the Reformation.

So paradoxically, while the Muslim world preserved the knowledge of the Greeks and transmitted on to the West, it resulted in the transformation of Christianity and resulted in the modern world we know.

We owe the Arabs for informing us that the ancients didn't know everything. But the crucial difference is we realized this and they didn't.

Here endeth today's history lesson. ;/)

Posted by phil_b 2008-02-28 06:42|| 2008-02-28 06:42|| Front Page Top

#2 But what they don't say is that the medical practitioners were exclusively Christians

Did not know that.

Posted by Icerigger">Icerigger 2008-02-28 06:50|| 2008-02-28 06:50|| Front Page Top

#3 Yup. It was thought to reduce the likelihood of poisoning by one's rivals.

Posted by lotp 2008-02-28 07:19|| 2008-02-28 07:19|| Front Page Top

#4 Islam, Buddhism, pre-Reformation Christianity were and are focused upon coming to terms with one's existence, that change/reform is internal. The pre-Christian Greeks and post-Reformationists reject the notion that one should just accept what fate has given you and that you have the ability to change the world around you outside of the religious vernacular. Buddhist have found ways to work in concert with and the adapt to change. The Islamists have not. That is why in the end, unless there is meaningful reformation within their ranks, there will never be anything better than a temporary truce between it and the rest of the world.

Posted by Procopius2k 2008-02-28 07:47|| 2008-02-28 07:47|| Front Page Top

#5 But Muslims invented Terrorism right?

Posted by CrazyFool 2008-02-28 08:25|| 2008-02-28 08:25|| Front Page Top

#6 But what they don't say is that the medical practitioners were exclusively Christians

Exclusively Christians and Jews. There was Maimonedes, for instance, personal physician to the whatchamacallam in Spain, then to the whosamawhatsis in North Africa, and finally to the whatchamawhosis in Egypt. He wrote several medical texts as well as texts on Jewish philosophy still studied to this day, and his daughter was famed as a teacher as well.

Posted by trailing wife ">trailing wife 2008-02-28 11:14|| 2008-02-28 11:14|| Front Page Top

#7 phil_b, Interestingly, while the Arab empires retained far more of the Greek written texts than did the West. As these ancient Greeks texts translated into Arabic became available in the West, it was a catalyst to the rejection of 'there is no new knowledge' view that had dominated Western thought for a millenia, i.e the Reformation. So paradoxically, while the Muslim world preserved the knowledge of the Greeks and transmitted on to the West,

Well, if this is a truth, then it is barely a half of it. The major corpus of Greek literature has been translated in monasteries during he first millennium, or rather between 400-800 AD.
The issue was then access to it.

The dhimmi christian translators were more prolific from 800 to 1200 AD, so that influened the route of flow of information, but after the anti-reformist wing of Islam's theologists got the upper hand, it all ceased about 1200 AD.

2 centuries later, Johannes Gutenberg's invention resolved the issue of accessibility and things were never the same.

Posted by twobyfour 2008-02-28 13:08|| 2008-02-28 13:08|| Front Page Top

#8 Regarding the availabity of greek texts, I was led to believe the arab source was insignificant, compared to two majors preservers : the byzantine empire, and the irish monasteries, both sources being far more readily accessible, even with the day's relatively limited means of travel, than from the arab/muslim ennemies, who were busy occupying swath of Europe and raiding the north shores of Mediterranea.

Posted by anonymous5089 2008-02-28 16:32|| 2008-02-28 16:32|| Front Page Top

#9 But the debt western or at least european civilization "owns" to the muslims and the arabs in particular is a very powerful meme that is being actively propagated, by the inotainement industry, and the chattering classes, national education systems included, with the active encouragement of the EU. Kinda like the tourist literature at the Saint-Denis cathedral, which mentions that the king who had it built was a contemporary of old mo', and explains who is the Gabriel Archangel by saying he's the one who revealed the Holy k'or'an, as seen this morning in a french blog

Posted by anonymous5089 2008-02-28 16:36|| 2008-02-28 16:36|| Front Page Top

#10 a5089, The Byzantium empire was largely conquered by 1300. Although much of the transmission may have occured through them, as their empire was conquered.

I am not aware of any Greek texts coming to us through the Irish, and I studied this stuff in Ireland.

Posted by phil_b 2008-02-28 21:11|| 2008-02-28 21:11|| Front Page Top

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