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2007-02-24 Home Front: Culture Wars
Split with parent church looms for Episcopalians
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Posted by Seafarious 2007-02-24 00:18|| || Front Page|| [11137 views since 2007-05-07]  Top

#1 The author of this piece seems to believe that the problem is the possibility of the Episcopal Church leaving the Anglican community. From what my Episcopal friends say, the Episcopal Church is in much greater danger of a large number of its congregations leaving it for the now more conservative Anglican church. In fact, it has gone far enough that in some dioceses the clergy is threatening legal action to evict rebellious congregations from their churches claiming that the property that the congregations paid for belongs to the church instead of them. The liberal clergy of the Episcopal Church is paying a price for its "sophisticated" interpretation of the Christian faith.
Posted by RWV 2007-02-24 02:26||   2007-02-24 02:26|| Front Page Top

#2 Episcopalians on the other side of the divide from Kasch say they're in an equally painful position. They say they're being asked to give up what they cherish most about their denomination: its emphasis on social justice in Scripture, which led them to accept gay relationships, and its democratic policy-making that gives laypeople and clergy a vote in major decisions

Yes, they like to focus on the emphasis of social justice in the scripture and ignore all the other passages that cramp their style or get in the way their true creed: "If it feels good, just do it."
Posted by Thrump Snairong6534 2007-02-24 04:01||   2007-02-24 04:01|| Front Page Top

#3 Sorta like Ana Nicole Smith - the Epis church died doped up and wearing clown make up and now the assorted hangers on want to carve up the riches.
Posted by regular joe 2007-02-24 06:47||   2007-02-24 06:47|| Front Page Top

#4 Regular Joe: Your analogy is spot on! Funny.
Posted by Thrump Snairong6534 2007-02-24 10:17||   2007-02-24 10:17|| Front Page Top

#5 "…Halt your march…a group believed to be largely…welcomed…a firm rebuke…to try to cajole…faced with a deadline to reverse their position …are finding themselves struggling…become too high…in an examination…Let it stand…could face a much-reduced role…While relatively small…and well situated to continue …might suffer more…the time for talk ended… have found themselves on the defensive…more in line…is more than seven times bigger than…is leading the charge… Liberals are torn, too…on the other side… they're in an equally painful position… asked to give up … is forcing … The head … personally supports … Yet, she is not alone in wanting to …that allows us move ahead…a different view… he supports …back that view…laity were split… on who to select …over a period…leaned toward…more inclined to support… others…”
Posted by Beavis 2007-02-24 12:19||   2007-02-24 12:19|| Front Page Top

#6 Hats off to the rational church folk everywhere who have stood this test and rebuked the "liberal" pro homosexual clergy.

The same sick element causes chaos whenever and wherever they're allowed to flourish, for they secretly subvert any organization's primary purpose and supplant it with their own agenda.

Liberalism today is a disease.
Posted by RD 2007-02-24 12:50||   2007-02-24 12:50|| Front Page Top

#7 Beavis seems to be channeling Joe M. with a bad connection!
Posted by Chiper Threreger8956 2007-02-24 12:56||   2007-02-24 12:56|| Front Page Top

#8 I kind of like the idea of ANS being the patron saint of evil clowns.
Posted by Anonymoose 2007-02-24 13:27||   2007-02-24 13:27|| Front Page Top

#9 Its fairly simpl;e. The African part of the Anglican Chruch is becoming the MAJORITY of the Anglicans. And it is *very* orthodox. It diosallows teh gay clercy and condemns homosexual relations (but not the homosexual person, i.e. condemn sin not sinner).

The liberal U Episcopals are pissing off the orthodox ones by appointing openly gay clergy and even a bishop, discarding fundmantal Christian beleifes, watering down the moral aspects of Christianity in favor of socialism and liberal politics. So the US Episcopal churhc is tearign itself apart. A large number of orthodox Episcopal churches are elaving the US organizationand joining with the African churches over jsut those same political heterodox issues (gay marriace, abortion, etc).

The Episcopal churhc in the US is dying, or at least the libeal part of it is. The orthodox (conservative) parts of the Anglican Church, however, are thriving. Tells you something about what is growing and healthy and what is withering away.

Posted by OldSpook 2007-02-24 13:30||   2007-02-24 13:30|| Front Page Top

#10 Presbys are moving on up in the food chain.....
Posted by anonymous2u 2007-02-24 15:30||   2007-02-24 15:30|| Front Page Top

#11 AND, the Chief Druid is looking to come to terms w/the RC church, 400 years after Henry.

Lizzie becoming Catholic?

What's Chuckie to do, decisions, decisions. Skip the prince of Islam and put in Wills, he'll be able to bridge the gap. At least it would open up the pool of eligible brides....
Posted by anonymous2u 2007-02-24 15:56||   2007-02-24 15:56|| Front Page Top

#12 Presbys are moving on up in the food chain.....

Preby's did the same thing back in the 70's. The liberals really didn't believe in Christ was the son of God. If you go in most Presbyterian churches you don't really notice that the wording changed but the difference in belief is significant. I think the Prebyterian Church that told the liberals they would go it alone is the Prebyterian USA. I'm guessing Presbyterian USA lost the real estate and it was a wake up call to the Episcopalians. The Prebyterian USA is more in line with evangelicals (who believe in the Trinity and that Christ is the son of God) and I don't think they allow women clergy, either. They believe the Bible is the actual word of God, not just food for thought from that nice guy, Jesus.
Posted by Thrump Snairong6534 2007-02-24 19:47||   2007-02-24 19:47|| Front Page Top

#13 The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) believes that God wants justice and peace on earth. And so we believe that, as people of God, we are called to work for justice and peace. Justice includes a commitment to human rights; support for those who seek dignity, freedom, and respect; and the exercise of power for the common good. Violence, terrorism, and occupation are enemies of justice and must cease. In the face of increasing suffering and injustice, our church has held true to its calling and has taken steps toward a just and lasting peace in Israel and Palestine.

One action that the PC(USA) has initiated in an effort to seek peace is a phased, selective process of divestment with corporations whose practices support the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories, assist the construction of the Separation Barrier, or facilitate Israelis or Palestinians with violent acts against innocent civilians. You've come to the right place if you want to know more about that action and other ways the church is working for a just peace in Israel and Palestine.

The Presbyterian Church, USA are not very nice people, at least they weren't as of June 2006, when the document from which this quote was taken was issued. Perhaps it's the other branch that aren't antisemites.
Posted by trailing wife 2007-02-24 20:32||   2007-02-24 20:32|| Front Page Top

#14 Trailing Wife: You are correct, I should have done my homework before posting. And yes you are correct that the Presbyterian Church USA is the one that is not nice. Like unfortunately too many other Protestant churches, they were rotted by the liberals from the top. But don't get too angry at the congregation as a whole, because many of the Sunday worshipers are elderly and probably don't realize just how rotten that church has become. It's not that they are stupid, it is just that they only go on Sunday, or maybe just Easter and Christmas, and if they are actually listening to the sermon, hear a good message about forgiveness or charity and then go home. More dedicated Christians have already moved on to churches that actually believe in Christ.

If you are interested, here is some info:

The Presbyterian Church in America has a strong commitment to evangelism, missionary work at home and abroad, and to Christian education. From its inception, the church has determined its purpose to be "faithful to the Scriptures, true to the reformed faith, and obedient to the Great Commission."

Organized at a constitutional assembly in December 1973, this church was first known as the National Presbyterian Church but changed its name in 1974 to Presbyterian Church in America (PCA). It separated from the Presbyterian Church in the United States (Southern) in opposition to the long-developing theological liberalism that denied the deity of Jesus Christ and the inerrancy and authority of Scripture. Additionally, the PCA held to the traditional position on the role of women in church offices.

In December 1973, delegates, representing some 260 congregations with a combined communicant membership of over 41,000 that had left the PCUS, gathered at Briarwood Presbyterian Church in Birmingham, Alabama, and organized the National Presbyterian Church, which later became the Presbyterian Church in America. In 1982, the Reformed Presbyterian Church, Evangelical Synod, joined the Presbyterian Church in America. The Reformed Presbyterian Church, Evangelical Synod, had been formed in 1965 by a merger of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church and the Reformed Presbyterian Church in North America, General Synod.

The members of the Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) are not anti-semites. The Presbyterian Church USA are the anti-semites and aren't even Christians in the true sense of the word.
Posted by Thrump Snairong6534 2007-02-24 22:32||   2007-02-24 22:32|| Front Page Top

#15  Imitatio Christi

Another participant in the discussion pointed out that the Koran explicitly prescribes violence against non-believers. This made The Rev especially voluble.

“Christianity has had its share of violence! The Bible has its own violent verses — ‘dash the babies’ heads to pieces’ and so on.

“Christ’s message to us is that we must love one another, and that love includes our Muslim brothers and sisters. This attitude of suspicion and hate is what’s wrong with the world today.”

RTWT for a good exmple of modern Presby thinking.
Posted by SR-71 2007-02-24 22:49||   2007-02-24 22:49|| Front Page Top

#16 As always with Gates of Vienna, that is an excellent analysis. I do take some issue with his conclusion: If Christians refuse to look this truth squarely in the face and deal with it, then Christianity is on its last legs.

Defining Christians as a group that refuses to look this truth squarely in the face ignores the fact that a good majority of the churches in America do recognize this danger. Saying "Churches" is like saying, "universities". You can find many a professor of who provides his students with false, misleading or even dangerous information.

The homosexual issue in the Episcopal Church is a good example of how difficult it is to paint all congregants or congregations with the same brush. Since the 1970's many Episcopalians Ministers or congregants have stayed with their church despite disagreeing with the leadership's stance on homosexuality or theology.

Just because a student attends Duke University and receives A+'s from liberal professors who teach hatred to all things good about America, it does not mean that the student agrees or takes away from the class the lessons the professor intends.
Posted by Thrump Snairong6534 2007-02-24 23:21||   2007-02-24 23:21|| Front Page Top

23:56 Darkydark
23:52 Sic_Semper_Tyrannus
23:46 Mike N.
23:21 RD
23:21 Thrump Snairong6534
23:18 RD
23:08 49 Pan
23:08 RD
23:04 Captain America
22:52 3dc
22:52 IG-88
22:51 RD
22:49 SR-71
22:44 Chiper Threreger8956
22:40 SR-71
22:32 Thrump Snairong6534
22:30 Chiper Threreger8956
22:26 Chiper Threreger8956
22:18 Redneck Jim
22:18 Sic_Semper_Tyrannus
22:16 Procopius2k
22:11 JohnQC
22:06 Procopius2k
22:02 Sic_Semper_Tyrannus









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